18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 10, 2010 12:26 AM by Bill Gehrke

    Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?

    slikjfvsl

      Hi!

       

      I have just installed Windows7 and the Premiere Pro CS5 trial version. The Mercury Playback Engine made me really curious. So I had a _lot_ of expectations. Yet so far I am very disappointed and I hope I did something wrong.

       

      What I need: Dropfree, native playback of Canon 5D2 files with primary color correction.

       

      What I have: Core i7, 2.6 GHz, 12GB RAM, HDDs in excess of 60 MB/s, _ATI_ graphics card.

       

      What I get:

      Playback in source viewer with output on 2nd monitor drops at least every other frame.

      Playback from timeline not better but output on 2nd monitor fills only half the width.

      I didn't even try color correction yet

       

      I know I do not get GPU support. But as it is possible to decode and display the 5D2 MOVs single threaded with a 32 bit application, I expected the 64 bit CS5 with advertised native DSLR support to do at least as good.

       

      Maybe I configured it wrong. I have never worked with Premiere so I am not used to the user interface. However, despite all the talk about native DSLR support I found nothing of that in the software. There seems to be "native" support only for formats with pixel aspect ratios _other_ than 1:1. So I selected "Desktop" in "Editing mode" and entered resolution, frame rate and aspect ratio manually. Was that wrong?

       

      Next, what do I have to enter in "Video Preview"? What does AVI have to do with preview? Nothing I tried made any difference at best.

       

      So far I have the impression that it isn't possible to even play back native 5D2 material without GPU support in CS5. Is that true?

       

      Thanks in advance...

       

         ...Mike

        • 1. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          If you are new to PR, make it easy on yourself.

           

          Import your footage in the project panel. Drag a clip to the New Item icon at the bottom of the project panel and it will automatically be dropped into a sequence that matches the properties of your clip. No need to go for desktop settings and complicate your life, when you still have to come to grips with the program.

           

          You should be aware that the trial version does not support anything MPEG, as is clearly stated on the website on the download page. Don´t worry you have overlooked this statement, nearly 3,341 people missed it as well, hence the larger font for people with reading problems.

           

          *The trial version of Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 does not include some features that depend on software licensed from parties other than Adobe. For example, some codecs for encoding MPEG formats are available only with the full version of this product.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
            slikjfvsl Level 1

            Thanks, that certainly makes things easier (and allowed me to verify that the settings I entered manually were correct). Unfortunately playback still drops a lot of frames.

             

               ...Mike

            • 3. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

              Mike, with the trial version the MPE is also disabled!

               

              Also could you look at your Task Manager window on the processes tab and tell us how many processes are running before you run any applications.

               

              Message was edited by: Bill Gehrke

              • 4. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                slikjfvsl Level 1

                >  with the trial version the MPE is also disabled!

                 

                Really? That at least would explain the performance which doesn't differ from any other editing application I've seen. So that means there is no way to test the real software without downloading a crack. *sigh*

                 

                > could  you look at your Task Manager window on

                > the processes tab and tell us  how many

                > processes are running before you run any applications.

                 

                Five system processes but no applications. It's a fresh Windows 7 system (I updated from XP64 just to test the MPE).

                 

                A note to the Adobe crew: The first ones who provide me with dropfree native 5D Mk2 playback get my money. Could have been you.

                 

                 

                Thanks for helping...

                 

                   ...Mike

                • 5. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                  John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Adobe has a 30 day money back policy... buy and test... return for a refund it it doesn't work for you

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                    Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                    Mike this is what I would like to see from your computer, make sure you have "Show processes from all user checked"

                    Win7-29-Processes.jpg

                    I would not be surprised to see 70+ processes on your computer.

                    • 7. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                      slikjfvsl Level 1

                      > make sure you  have "Show processes from all user checked"

                       

                      Yeah, right... I still have to get used to user management on Windows, sorry. There are 31 processes altogether. But what could it matter? They are all idling (RAM usage is "only" 1.1 GB) and if Windows can do one thing then it is thread scheduling.

                       

                      When I play back the 5D2 MOVs, CPU usage with Premiere is between 35% and 50%. At least every second frame is dropped. My current editing software is at 18% (also with 1080p output on second monitor and RGB parade), doing not much better and the VLC player is at 8%, playing dropfree. Other editing systems I know play the 5D2 files dropfree using not even two 3.2GHz cores. They are in a different league altogether but still use the standard QuickTime interface.

                       

                      Maybe my stone age graphics card is the reason after all. It's PCIe alright but it's passively cooled. I like it silent and I absolutely don't need any 3D performance.

                       

                         ...Mike

                      • 8. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Player performance and editing performance are incomparable things. Especially with heavily compressed material.

                         

                        Drop outs are usually caused by some system components not being fast enough. The fact that the CPU load in nor extremely high, may point to disk performance lacking.

                        • 9. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                          slikjfvsl Level 1

                          > Player performance and editing  performance are

                          > incomparable things. Especially with heavily

                          > compressed  material.

                           

                          Yes and no. Of course players are optimized for playback only and don't need to be able to jump to exact locations like editing systems do. But that wasn't what I was complaining about. I was complaining about playback performance. And every editing software should have optimized playback routines that process the file sequentially and don't have to work their way from the nearest I-frame to the current location every time.

                           

                          During scrubbing or when changing effect settings I would be content with 10fps. Yet I get only about 3fps (with RGB parade enabled and 1080p output on 2nd monitor). And especially when I'm only changing effect settings I'd expect higher frame rates because the timeline position doesn't change and caching could avoid loading and decoding the same data all over again. That's what 64 bit is for (according to the ads).

                           

                          > Drop  outs are usually caused by some system

                          > components not being fast  enough. The fact

                          > that the CPU load in nor extremely high,

                          > may point to  disk performance lacking.

                           

                          That is unlikely. With fragmented data and randomish access (video is never truly random) I get 60 MB/s. In best case I can play 1080p25 RGB 8 bit uncompressed. Should be enough for a 6 MB/s video stream. No, the bottleneck is the CPU, or rather the algorithm, as theoretical computational power and memory bandwidth in a Core i7 system are sufficient for decoding the stream as well as upsampling and color space conversion if the graphics card API requires it.

                           

                          When I overclock the CPU from 2.5 GHz to 4 GHz and the RAM from 1066 MHz to 1600 MHz, playback of 5D2 files works fine in all other software (haven't tried that with CS5 yet). CPU load in both cases leads to the conclusion that playback using the QuickTime API is single threaded. This single-threadedness, possible code that can still be optimized, a clunky QuickTime API and 32 bit code (register trashing) of current software led me to the assumption that the MPE could really be as good as the ads say.

                           

                          But unfortunately all signs indicate what has been said before in this thread: There's no MPE in the Premiere CS5 trial version.

                           

                             ...Mike

                           

                          • 10. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                            Powered by Design Level 4

                            What do you have your playback quality set at ?

                             

                            Also what color line is above your footage ?  RED - YELLOW - CLEAR  ?

                             

                            I dont have CS5 yet so someone else might be able to say where the check marks are for changing those settings.

                             

                            I remember a video of playing the footage back at 1/4 1/2 resolution.

                             

                            Maybe that might help.

                             

                            Also make sure you have the latest ATI drivers.

                             

                            That does suck that MPE isnt enabled with the trial.

                             

                            I understand not giving any MPEG support but why no MPE ?

                             

                            Not that you would ever be able to use it with your ATI card since its not an approved Nvidia card anyway.

                             

                             

                            Glenn

                            • 11. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                              60 MB/second is pretty lousy these days, but then it does depend on how that is being measured.

                              • 12. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                                dimo_3d

                                Hi there,

                                 

                                I have the exact same problem here. I installed the trial to see if I can edit my Nikon D90 footage with CS5. I have a Sony Vaio Laptop with Intel Core Duo with 2.2 Ghz and 4 GB RAM and an ATI Graphics Card and Windows 7 64 bit. I expected to be able to at least play the 1280 720 footage without drops, but even playing the clips is not possible, It only gets every 3rd frame or worse.

                                Is this related to the trial? Or to the ATI Card?

                                The clips play fine in windows media player with only 20% cpu usage.

                                I dont need any effects, color correction or even complicated dissolves. Just simple editing of 720 24p. Not possible with CS5 on a laptop? Do I really need a new laptop (the "old" one was bought last christmas) with an NVidia card for this?

                                 

                                 

                                Best regards,

                                Dieter

                                • 13. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                                  Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                  Dieter, unfortunately it is two things, your CPU is underpowered and I suspect that your Vaio has only one disk drive and possibly only a 5400 rpm drive at that.  You absolutely need a minimum of two disk drives and both should be 7200 rpm.  The only proven way to add another drive that really works is via a eSATA port.

                                  • 14. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                                    dimo_3d Level 1

                                    ok, then you think it has nothing to do with the trial. I thought my system would suffice for small HD and only one stream, but seems not to be the case. I just tried to change the sequence settings to an microsoft uncompressed. When I then force a full render, it plays almost fluid. This seems even stranger to me, since the data rate would be much higher, On the other hand the MJpeg Codec that the Nikon D90 uses shouldnt be hard to decode, since it is only intraframe.

                                    It's ok for me if my system is too slow for Premiere. I just wanted to make sure my decision is not based on some limitations of the trial that the full version would not have.

                                     

                                    Best regards,

                                    Dieter

                                    • 15. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                                      Sheri Codiana Level 1

                                      >  with the trial version the MPE is also disabled!

                                       

                                      MPE is not disabled in the trial.

                                       

                                      Sheri

                                      • 16. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                                        Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                        Sorry for that mistatement on my part. I just found out that it was the disabled because I was using the default Win 7 driver.  After downloading the current nVidia driver it indeed does work.

                                        • 18. Re: Are lots of drops in CS5 without GPU normal?
                                          Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                          And to give credit where credit is due, thanks to Dennis for helping me solve that one.