20 Replies Latest reply on Jun 10, 2010 12:15 PM by craigstephens

    draw inside tool screws up when expanded

    craigstephens Level 1

      Greetings i am having a major issue with all the artwork i have been working on for the last few weeks.  I have used the "draw inside" for most of my shapes for shading and colouring, however when i expand the appearance (needed to keep my strokes at the right ratio), it  either wipes out all the colour inside, or puts the colour into the stroke itself.  Everything i have done will be unusable if this isnt solved, and i need to deliver this all to the client by friday.

       

      This seems to be just another in a LONG list of bugs in this program, most of which i have been able to work around, this one, however, will doom me.

       

      Any help would be greatly appreciated.

       

      Craig.

        • 1. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
          [scott] Level 6

          If you have a stroke on the object you are drawing inside of (Container)... then expand, you are left with two objects for the container - the outside shape the color of the stroke, the inside shape which was used as a mask. Assuming you use the default appearance for drawing the Container, you would have a white fill and a black stroke on it. When expanded, you are left with a black filled shape and a white filled shape on top of it.

           

          All you need do is select the inside shape and delete it. Then select the outside shape and switch the fill color back to the stroke color.

           

          Easiest solution is to remove strokes on your containers before expanding, or not stroke the containers at all and ad strokes after you've expanded.

          • 2. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
            craigstephens Level 1

            I create an object, give it a base colour and stroke (usually a thin black line 1pt).  I switch over to the draw inside and do all the shading, creating a group.  When i select the object and expand it (so i don’t get a big thick stroke when i resize it), and expand the fill and stroke, all the colour within the draw inside group either completely disappears, or the black stroke is coloured with colours from inside the group. (the first section of the line is black, then wherever the shaded colour from inside the group touched the stroke, it is now that same colour.)  This happens when i expand both the stroke and fill, or even if i just expand the stroke.  I have not been able to find anything about this problem anywhere, but i have problems believing they would allow a feature to be used (draw inside), but not allow it to be resized.  I have hundreds of hours invested in this project, all of which will be thrown away if i cant solve this problem very very soon. (my deadline is Friday, and i never checked that there would be any problem because i never saw it as going to be an issue.)

             

            Craig.

            • 3. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
              [scott] Level 6

              Reread my post.. I edited.

               

              Your art is still there, just covered by the internal fill color.

              • 4. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                craigstephens Level 1

                the problem is that the internal fill colour is also the background of the object.  so if i

                delete that, its just a big empty space (none of the colours underneath it show up either).  i can see the other colours in the layers panel, but nothing shows up.  i get the stroke, but nothing inside of it.

                 

                If i had known this would happened i would have built them differently, but this was never addressed in anything i read or saw (which, to be honest, really pisses me off, as it seems like a pretty important thing to relay to those who dont know all the ins and outs of this program, they just make this "new" feature look very simple to use, and dont tell you what is needed to do if you want to do something as obscure as resize it.)

                 

                To go back now and edit everything is an enormous amount of work, as i have 20 complex characters that took me 2 weeks to build.

                 

                Craig.

                • 5. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                  [scott] Level 6

                  I think you're a bit panicked, understandably, and aren't understanding that you haven't lost anything. It's merely a matter of stacking order. Select the internal fill color, Edit > Cut, select the black fill outline, edit Paste In front. THat should get you right back to where you want to be.

                  • 6. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                    Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                    Try this flatten the transparency then expand the art.

                     

                    Doing what Scott suggest seems harsh if you had fifty objects like this in the art.

                     

                    See if what I suggested works for you.

                    • 7. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                      craigstephens Level 1

                      Thats not working..see the problem is that i didnt use just a white background as my clipping path..when i created these clipped groups, the background is the solid color that i built the rest on, so it still reads "clipping path" and is the solid color i want.  If i move it i still get the solid color, but all the objects within the clipped path are hidden.  In fact it doesnt seem to matter where i move the "clipped path", even if i put it behind all the other objects in the group they are still invisible. Same if i put it in front of the stroke compound group.  The only way i can see any of those is to move them all the way out of that group.

                      • 8. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                        craigstephens Level 1

                        Okay, when i flatten the transparency i got some discolouration anywhere i actually used transparency (some of the shading was done with darkening at 50%).  When i turned off the preserve alpha transparency that went away, and it looks like that worked.

                         

                        Is this still a full vector image?  There was a slider in there (raster vector balance, which i turned up to 100 on the vector side.)

                         

                        Ill try appling this to a few more and see what the results are, fingers crossed, but i think it might have done it.  Thanks to everyone for helping me with this...im already under the gun to get this completed and that would have been the death of me.  Ill let you know more after a few more tests.

                         

                        Craig.

                        • 9. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                          Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                          Still vector!

                           

                          A feature specifically for this purpose might be better than having someone with controls and preferences might be useful.

                           

                          Hope it works for you.

                           

                           

                          Please post any problems you come up against maybe a feature request is in order unless this works completely.

                          • 10. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                            craigstephens Level 1

                            It seems to work sparatically.  Anytime i have used either lightening or darkening it seems to screw up, throwing away the colour it was editing, and just coming up as either gray or white.

                             

                            It looks like either way i go, im going to have to go in and do a lot of manual editing.

                             

                            Thanks for all the help from everyone though, but with my time constraints now, its going to be nothing short of a miracle to get this all done, and i believe i have had the last sleep i will have till saturday.

                             

                            I just wish that will all the videos that adobe had done about the new features and how to use them they just mentioned this, it would have saved me a lot of time, and is VERY VERY relevent to this feature actually being useful.  A piece of vector art that changes when you resize it is completely useless.

                             

                            Craig.

                            • 11. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                              davidmacy Adobe Employee

                              I do not think you should use Flatten Transparency to work through this. Scott is correct, all of the structure is still there, it is just a matter of getting the stacking order correct. You should realize that what is happening when you select an object and choose Draw Inside is that the object is becoming a clipping mask. the only difference between this and the clipping masks that have always existed is that this one retains the top fill and stroke color instead of disappearing like they always do if you use the standard method for creating clipping masks.

                               

                              Can we go back to why you feel like you need to expand before scaling? Are you concerned about the stroke on the clipping mask scaling or the strokes on clipped objects? Maybe you can show some screenshots and give a bit more detail on your workflow.

                              • 12. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                craigstephens Level 1

                                My main concern are the strokes.  I want to be able to give the client EPSs that they can scale to whatever thier needs may be. This project is for 2 large display panels, with multiple characters mixed into it. (its a wheres waldo type activity for kids), but these characters will also be used in other material, from books to tshirts and the like.  The character versions that are going in the panels are very small, but i have created them much larger, so when i shrink them down the stroke is way too big and prominant.  Im just trying to get everything to scale properly.  I`m aware that the draw within is just a clipped mask with its colour and stroke intact, i just cant figure out how to make everything within that mask appear once expanded.  Ive tried reordering, but it doesnt seem to make any difference, not to mention with the huge amount of different pieces i have used this technique with, it would involve reworking just about everything i have done so far.

                                 

                                Here are some images:

                                 

                                image1.png

                                This is one of the areas before expanding

                                 

                                image2.png

                                Here it is after.  It seems no matter where i move the clipping path (the main colour there that is hiding everything) i still cant see anything else under it.  the only way i can is if i move one of the objects right out of the root group it is in.

                                 

                                Craig.

                                • 13. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                  davidmacy Adobe Employee

                                  OK, so now I understand that you are not trying to scale within Illustrator where you could control whether the strokes scale or not. You are concerned about scaling of the EPS file and that's why you don't want strokes.

                                  It looks like what is happening is that when you expand, what used to be a stroke is now becoming the clipping path. Need to spend some time experimenting to see a) how to make sure that you don't have to re-do all of that work, and b) what is the best workflow for this in the future.

                                  • 14. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                    craigstephens Level 1

                                    In the future i will just have the stroke on its own, thats easy enough, and had i known this would happen, i would have done it that way to begin with.

                                     

                                    Actually i did try to scale it, and the strokes and single lines didnt scale with it, is there something i did wrong that it would not?

                                     

                                    Craig

                                    • 15. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                      davidmacy Adobe Employee

                                      | Actually i did try to scale it, and the strokes and single lines didnt scale with it, is there something i did wrong that it would not?

                                       

                                      Open the flyout menu on the Transform Panel and select Scale Strokes & Effects. Is that not working?

                                      • 16. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                        craigstephens Level 1

                                        Ahh...yes it would if i knew where that option was...thanks.  I'm a little rusty on my Illustrator as i havent used it for over a year, and this program is SOOO unforgiving once you get some distance from it and start to forget things.  Thanks, you guys are so much more helpful than Adobe help.  I tried calling them today, it was a wait time of 35-45 minutes...well after 2 hours i gave up.

                                         

                                        Craig.

                                        • 17. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                          [scott] Level 6

                                          For me the best workflow is to not apply strokes to objects you are "drawing inside" of. Then, if a stroke is needed, apply the stroke on a separate object above or add the stroke after you've expanded the object. Essentially I treat all "draw inside" object as clipping masks, since basically, that's all they are.

                                           

                                          It would be nice if clipping masks would retain their strokes when expanded, basically "Expand Appearance" rather than "Expand" in the traditional AI terms.

                                          • 18. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                            davidmacy Adobe Employee

                                            I agree with Scott that the best way to get what you're after is to keep the stroke as a separate object that you can expand without impacting the clipping path. I think that is also the best way to recover the work that you've already done on this file.

                                             

                                            1. Double-click on a clipping group to bring it into isolation mode

                                            2. Select the clipping path (which has fill and stroke)

                                            3. Copy

                                            4. Turn off the stroke

                                            5. Expand

                                            6. Paste in Front and turn off the fill

                                            7. Expand the front object

                                            Now you should have the result you wanted when you tried to expand the whole clipping group.

                                             

                                            Does that work? If so, you can probably make an action that automates steps 3 through 7.

                                            • 19. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                              Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                                              I think that he Op is pointing out that there should be a way to accomplish this in simpler way with one command.
                                              Even if this means a new feature that will expand artwork that contains objects that were created this way.

                                               

                                              As I see it,like with many new features it takes something like this circumstance to point out such issues
                                              and such a work around is still unintuitive.

                                               

                                              a special expand feature would be good.

                                              • 20. Re: draw inside tool screws up when expanded
                                                craigstephens Level 1

                                                Yah that is how i will do it in the future.  I actually did that with some of my pieces because i had used the width tool on the stroke, and noticed when i switched over to draw inside, the work i had done to the stroke dissapeared and it reverted to a normal stroke.  It was just on the objects that no width was applied that i used the stroke in the draw within.  Now that i know it will be easy not to have this happen again...just took me off guard at a time where time was very much of the essence.

                                                 

                                                Thanks again for all the help on this one...

                                                 

                                                Craig.