16 Replies Latest reply on Jun 12, 2010 9:34 PM by FelixUnderwood

    I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes

    FelixUnderwood Level 2

      Okay, here's my latest list based on the superior knowledge of all of you and reading many posts. I could still use some help where noted:

       

      Case: Either the Thermaltake Armor Plus http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133055&cm_re=thermaltake_armor_p lus-_-11-133-055-_-Product or the Coolermaster Half-X http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119225&cm_re=HAF-X-_-11-119-225-_ -Product   Thoughts on these two?

       

      Processor: 980-X

       

      Processor  Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler

       

      Moboard (I can use some help deciding between these two): GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD7 LGA 1366  Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard or ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

       

      Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower  W0155RU 1000W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153053

       

      RAM: I'd like to bite the bullet and get 24GB, meaning 6 x 4gig sticks. I'm wide open to suggestions here. Here's what I've dug up so far: PATRIOT PGS324G1600ELHK DDR3  24GB (6x4GB) 1600MHz   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220478

       

      GPU: GTX-480

       

      System  Drive: Crucial Sata III SSD 2.5" 256GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD). The price just dropped $40 from yesterday. Check out the specs on this baby (again it's SATA III):  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148349&cm_re=crucial_c300-_-20-14 8-349-_-Product

       

      Media  Drives: 2 x 2Tb Seagate Sata III HDs. I will move these over from my current rig. I'm also open to getting a third one. I also have a HighPoint RocketRAID 620 PCI-Express 2.0 x1 SATA 6.0Gb/s Controller Card that I was going to move over. A question: do you think this may have been responsible for my less-than-impressive HD performance in my recent PPBM-4 test results? It was only $60! If you have a suggestion for a better SATA III Controller, I'm all eyes!

       

      External  Monitoring Capablilities: Matrox MXO2-LE w/Max   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/650526-REG/Matrox_MXO2LEMAX_N_D_MXO2_LE_with_MAX.htm l

       

      Total System Cost: $5,450

       

          I'm wide open to critique/suggestions!! Haven't bought yet, but plan on ordering everything by the end of this month.

       


        • 1. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Felix, I do not see your PPBM4 results or maybe they are there and I do not connect you with the names, so I cannot comment on your disk performance relative to your test results.  For $60 you do not get much you probably would be better off just using the onboard RAID.  You seem hung up on SATA III and If I were buying new it probably is a good idea if if does not cost you too much extra.  But you will not see much if any performance difference due to the faster interface, you might see a slight performance improvement from the 64 MB of cache and the higher sustained transfer rate  You might take Scott/Eric's suggestion and look at the Intel RS2BL080.

           

          As I have said many times before make sure that your motherboard lists compatibilty with the memory that you choose.  Many medium cost motherboards only really support 3 modules of the higher speed memory or 6 modules at stock speed.

           

          Is the Matrox certified for CS5?

          • 2. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
            Baz R Level 3

            Hi,

             

            The cooler fan will overhang upto the second memory stick, you might get away with a smaller fan on the intake side.

             

            mobo go for ASUS.

             

            I would recomend a better disk setup. with a areca 1880ix raid card.

             

            also have a look at black magic

             

            this is a basic kit,

             

            http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

             

            SSD. the only benifit you will get is programs loading a little quicker. Velociraptor are quick enough (there new sata 3 are quicker)

             

            case have a look at the Lian Li Range.

             

            my new build will have a lian li PC-80B

             

            thats it for now.

             

            Baz

            • 3. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
              shooternz Level 6

              I wouldnt jump into any (either BM or Matrox) 'external monitoring capability using a third party device

              until you have explored the possibilties within a base hardware system / CS5 set up first.

               

              I have excellent external monitoring without  using these devices ( I have BM Intensity Pro card on the shelf - where it will probably stay).

               

              One of the issues with 3rd party devices (correct me if I am wrong) is they require you to use their Presets and CODECs / drivers etc

               

              My CS5 suite is perfectly managing everything  from DV to Red 4k realtime and with external monitoring (in synch).

              • 4. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Looks like a great system, with the well known limitations when you ask me:

                 

                Disk setup and raid controller. That Highpoint is a definite low point in your setup. You can best use it as a doorstop if you don't use a Matrox card for that purpose. It is a piece of, well it starts with a S and ends with HIT. You get the picture.

                 

                With that great CPU, all that memory and the rest of your components in good order, it seems a waste to limit your system with such a meager disk setup. I suggest you get at least one extra disk, possibly more.

                 

                This may not be what you expected, but as you may have surmised from other posts, Bill Gehrke and I are working on the new PPBM CS5 benchmark and tonight we have have been testing a disk intensive test that measures disk perfomance.

                 

                Both of us tested transfer rates from 1 disk to 1 disk, from 2 x R0  to 12 x R30, from 8 x R0 to 8 x R0 and every other combination one can think of. The base result is that single disk transfers are way below 100 MB/s, 8 disk to 8 disk arrays are around 350 MB/s and 12 to 12 disk arrays are around 700 MB/s.

                 

                You may not need these kind of transfer rates in daily life, but realize that with ample CPU, GPU and memory your system bottleneck may well be your disk setup.

                • 5. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                  FelixUnderwood Level 2

                  Bill: my test results are there. There are a whopping 54 test results that are worse than mine! (And 75 that are higher performing!). I am hung up on SATA III because I'd like to upgrade to the latest and greatest, especially due to the fact that I already have 2 SATA III 2Tb drives. I think I'll add a 3rd one with a better RAID controller. I bet that RocketRaid card is responsible for my disk performance being so low. Again, since I'm starting from scratch, I'd like to go with a SATA III controller card, even if it means a wait. Remember, I'm mostly doing HD :30 sec spots, so I'm not afraid of rendering. It's just that I'd like to see the time it takes to be cut in half. Most of my time is spent dealing with the instability I'm experiencing with CS4, so gaining stability alone is half the battle. I'm fine not OCing. And yes, the Matrox MXO2 will be CS5 ready any day now.

                   

                  Baz: I love my Samsung 256Gb SSD that I'm currently using for OS & Adobe Project Files. I like the fact that it's more reliable than an HD, takes up less space than a typical HD, which means more air can flow by it (and not heat up that air as it passes by), it uses less power, it generates no noise, needs no defragging...and is rediculously expensive per GB! But I'm okay with that. The new Crucial Sata III SSD has Read speeds up to 355MB/s. Writes of 225MB/s. At this rate, I don't anticipate cancelling those all-important life-saving Auto Saves!

                   

                  shooternz: Matrox does not make you use their codecs for the MXO2, unlike the Axio LE. Since I output all of my spots to HD mpeg2's for the various media outlets, the Matrox codec issue isn't much of one, even with my current Axio LE. If you want to tell me how I can get HDMI output of the PPro Program Window, while simultaneously outputting to two edit interface monitors, I'm all eyes! The nice thing about the MXO2 is that it has all sorts of I/Os, including SDI.

                   

                  Harm: What do you think if I add a 3rd 2Tb SATA III HD and a decent RAID controller? I knew the RocketRaid card I currently have was going to make you vomit! Do you think this is what made my scores bomb on the PPBM4 test? I insist on waiting for a decent SATA III RAID controller, if waiting is required. I don't want to go backwards, here. And Harm, what's your thoughts on the Matrox MXO2-LE w-Max? I HAVE to have external monitoring capabilities and multiple format I/Os (composite, component, S, SDI & HDMI) and balanced audio I/O!!

                  • 6. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                    Rowby Goren Level 1

                    Hi shooternz,

                     

                    From your post (expecially your comment about "from DV to Red 4k realtime") I'd like to know more about your system.  Are you listed in http://ppbm4.com/Benchmark.html?


                    I am gettting ready to build my system and am most concerned about fast export.  With your system how is your experience with  HDV  and AVCHD so far as rendering (multiple layers) and Exporting to the various formats, including mp4 and flv.

                     

                    Thanks

                     

                    Rowby

                     

                    • 7. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      FelixUnderwood wrote:

                       

                      Bill: my test results are there. There are a whopping 54 test results that are worse than mine! (And 75 that are higher performing!). I am hung up on SATA III because I'd like to upgrade to the latest and greatest, especially due to the fact that I already have 2 SATA III 2Tb drives. I think I'll add a 3rd one with a better RAID controller. I bet that RocketRaid card is responsible for my disk performance being so low. Again, since I'm starting from scratch, I'd like to go with a SATA III controller card, even if it means a wait. Remember, I'm mostly doing HD :30 sec spots, so I'm not afraid of rendering. It's just that I'd like to see the time it takes to be cut in half. Most of my time is spent dealing with the instability I'm experiencing with CS4, so gaining stability alone is half the battle. I'm fine not OCing. And yes, the Matrox MXO2 will be CS5 ready any day now.

                       


                      Yes I can see your results. but the major problem that appears is that you did not have a project disk from the data you submitted. Your disk intensive AVI encoding score of 18.6 is really bad.  It would be very interesting if you were to rerun the test and have all the PPBM project files on the RAID array.  I would expect a major decrease in the disk intensive AVI score and also a major decrease in the Render Timeline score also

                       

                      Also I do not believe that you have your OS very well tuned.  I have a new page in process for tuning your Win 7 64 OS.  Your MEPG encoding score should be about 32 seconds rather than your 37.1 score.  This probably will also increase your CS4 stability.  For just two or three drives the Intel SAS 600 (SATA III also) controller plus the battery backup apparently will serve you well.

                      • 8. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                        FelixUnderwood Level 2

                        I ran the test again with the Preview & Media files going to my RAID, rather than the SSD, so it will be interesting to see the change. I also made the Win 7 tweaks from your suggestions, Bill, but most of them I had made during the install. Problem is, every time I enter the path in the .vbs tool (B:\Benchmark.PRV) I get an error: Script:\Statistics.vbs Line: 62 Char: 1 Error: File not found Code: 800A0035 Source: Microsoft VBScript runtime error. It would be nice to have a Browse icon to find the folder for those of us who are a little too young to have been involved in the DOS days.

                        • 9. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                          Baz R Level 3

                          what you need todo is goto to where the file is. right click and go into properties, it will show you the path name: copy the path and then paste into the benchmark test. if that does not work it means you have not followed the intructions to the benchmark properly.

                           

                          baz

                          • 10. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                            FelixUnderwood Level 2

                            Thanks, baz. Okay, here's the Test Results with all files coming from and going to my Corsair 256GB SSD vs 2 x 2Tb Seagate Sata III RAID 0:

                             

                            First Test: OS, PPro App (1 Partition), Project File, Preview Files, Output Media (other partition) all going to SSD that is partioned into 2 x 128Gb:

                            100.9,  secs Total Benchmark Time
                            29.1,  secs AVI  Encoding Time
                            39.8,  secs MPEG Elapsed Time
                            32,  secs Rendering Time

                             

                            Sescond Test: OS & PPro App on SSD that is partioned into 2 x 128Gb/Project File, Preview Files, Output Media all going to 2 x 2Tb Seagate SATA III RAID 0 controlled by cheap RocketRaid PCI card:

                            106.2,  secs Total Benchmark Time
                            33,  secs AVI  Encoding Time
                            40.2,  secs MPEG Elapsed Time
                            33,  secs Rendering Time

                             

                               Thoughts? Comments? Points to Ponder?

                            • 11. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Felix,

                               

                              These are really, really bad results. My guess is that with a little effort you should be able to achieve something like 70 seconds or there abouts.

                               

                              Start with Windows 7 Service Configurations by Black Viper to clean up all the services running. Next inspect all the processes running with Process Explorer from the Sysinternal Utilities

                               

                              If you have more than 40 - 50 processes running, clean up by killing superfluous ones. Also have a look at Adobe Forums: Guide for installing and tuning a Vista... which says Vista, but also applies to Win7.

                               

                              Once these steps are done, we can see how much that helps to improve responsiveness and what we do to further increase performance.

                              • 12. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                An stop putting your Project file on your SSD.  You probalby would get better AVI encoding times if you broke you RAID and used the two disks seperately on the motherboard SATA connections or even better yet in RAID 0 on the motherboard..  Just to test out what you actually are getting on your RocketRaid, test it by downloading HDtach and show us the results.

                                • 13. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                                  FelixUnderwood Level 2

                                  Okay, guys, here's my HD Tach Test Results. Had to run it in XP Compatibility Mode:

                                   

                                  2 x 2Tb SATA III RAID 0:

                                   

                                   

                                  HD Tach Results RAID 6-12-10.jpg

                                  Corsair 256Gb SSD:

                                  HD Tach Results SSD 6-12-10.jpg

                                  Not too shabby, eh? Wonder why my SSD PPBM4 Test yielded faster results than my RAID 0...

                                  • 14. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    Felix, these are very nice results. All the more reason to check out your services and processes, since these must be causing your lousy results in the PPBM test. HDTach is perfectly OK.

                                    • 15. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      And why is your posted AVI encoding result even less than that?  But in any case the disk intensive AVI test is more than triple of what it should be.  My current editing machine has a dual 5400 series processors, admittedly not as fast as your CPU's but that has no bearing on the disk intensive score.  Just for you I just ran PPBM4 on CS4 and the disk intensive AVI encoding score is 6 seconds, now that is with a WD 150 GB Velociraptor C: drive and ALL the benchmark project files are on a Seagate 7200.12, 1 TB, 7200 RPM drive interfaced to the Intel ESB-2 SATA onboard controller.  By the way are you making sure that you check the "Use Preview Files" for the AVI test?

                                       

                                      There is one test that is not easy to test and that is the write performance of the disk.  The disk(s) have to be empty.  I have seen on other RAID controllers where the write rate for a multi-disk RAID controller is only in the 30 MB/second range or even less.  Also some early SSD's also exhibit lousy write rates.

                                      • 16. Re: I'm Near the End of My New Rig Design...Still Open to Changes
                                        FelixUnderwood Level 2

                                        Bill & Harm, thanks for all of the time you're putting into this. Bill, yes I did remember to check "Use Preview Files" for both tests. Harm, it was great to hear you validating my disc performance in both tests. So, I suppose the only variables left for my pokey Premiere performance (that's funny, I almost always avoid aliteration at all costs!) is in Windows 7 services. This is a barebones computer, in terms of software. No Microsoft Office, no AOL, no Firefox, no antivirus software. So I suppose I'll go further into Windows to see what's still on, but I've even taken steps to speed up performance in that realm, including turning off Wndows Aero, adjusting for best performance, no drive compression or indexing...I'm at a loss, but Harm, thank you for the many Windows tweaks. I'll get to those tomorrow. One that you suggested, Vista Services has obviously been renamed for Windows 7. Can you please tell me what they call it (Vista Services) in Win 7?