1 2 Previous Next 56 Replies Latest reply on Aug 19, 2010 12:49 PM by chris.campbell

    Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance

    Chris_2pha

      I have been developing an app for a few weeks for a jukebox front end and have been using air 1.5 (1.5.3.9120 to be exact) and though I might aswell start using air 2 so downloaded the air 2 RC sdk.

      When I tested the app in air 2, I was not happy with the performance.

       

      here is a link to a screen capture I did.

      http://www.2pha.com/random_files/air15_vs_air20.avi

       

      In the first half I am using air 1.5, in the second half it's 2.0.

       

      All it really is atm is a list using a custom layout (that is not virtual)

      As you can see in the vid, in 1.5 it performs ok, but in 2.0 the clicks on each item lag quite a bit.

       

      Can anyone explaint this or is there something different in air 2.0 that I am missing?

        • 1. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
          chris.campbell Adobe Employee

          Hi Chris,

          Thanks for bringing this to our attention.  Is it possible to send us your project or other sample code that would demonstrate this behavior?  You can contact me via PM or ccampbel at adobe.com.

           

          Thanks,

          Chris

          • 2. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
            BeyondDudu

            Hi,

             

            I'm having quite the same problem. When running my application with AIR 2, I'm having a lot of lag with anything that concerns mouse events (mouse move and click). When I run the exact same application version with AIR 1.5, the lag is gone.

            With AIR 2, I also noticed that when my application loses focus (when in windowed mode and switching to another application), most of the time the lag with mouse move events seems to be gone.

             

            Btw, I'm on Windows 7. I did test it on other PC with Windows 7 with the same result, but not on any other system.

             

            Unfortunately my project is confidential so I can't provide with any code sample right now. I did want to add my voice to Chris's question, though.

             

            Cheers

            • 3. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
              montyk777

              The same problem is plaguing my app (mouse event delay anywhere between 1 to 15 seconds). Not present in 1.5.3.

               

              Disclaimer: the following is an assumption. Maybe related maybe not.

               

              A very similar bug was in Flash Player that was fixed with 10.1 RC7 [asterisk marks fixed bug in this release]:

              *Mouse clicks are not responsive on some sites. (2612990)

               

              Afaik AIR 2.0.2 does not use this release of Flash Player.

               

              Regards,

              Monty

              • 4. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                chris.campbell Adobe Employee

                Hi Monty,

                If possible, could we get a copy of your application for testing?  Please feel free to PM or email me at ccampbel at adobe.com.

                 

                Thanks,

                Chris

                • 5. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                  UpperKEES

                  Many more people seem to experience this same problem, see here:  http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=3568.0

                   

                  Hopefully  some of the suggestions / circumstances mentioned there can help you find a solution  soon....

                   

                  Kind regards,

                   

                  UpperKEES

                  • 6. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                    virgil_wall

                    Indeed, I see this performance degradation on windows 7 32bit but not on windows 7 64bit.  I also see it mostly when the AIR app is FULL_SCREEN_INTERACTIVE.  I say mostly, because I can also run a different test where I run the AIR app in the 32bit virtual PC version of XP that comes with windows 7.  When I run my app in a window in the virtual PC version of XP under AIR 1.5.3, everything is cool.  Runs like a champ.  When I run the same app under AIR 2.0.2, it's a nightmare of slowness.  Both of these are when the app is in a window (not full screen).

                     

                    Since it only seems to be a 32bit problem, I would guess it has to do with acceleration... but that's just a guess.  Whatever the reason, this is going to turn into a real big problem, real soon... so I hope this matter gets identified quickly.

                    • 7. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                      virgil_wall Level 1

                      So I am also getting support email and forum posts from people who report the problem on win 7 64bit.... so scratch my assumption it doesn't affect 64bit.

                      • 8. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                        BeyondDudu Level 1

                        Indeed. I forgot to mention in my previous post that I'm on Win 7 64bit.

                        • 9. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                          UpperKEES Level 1

                          I haven't seen a reply by Adobe for almost a week now....

                           

                          Many platforms seem to be affected, so this will address many users all over the world.

                           

                          Has the problem been identified yet? And when can we expect a new update?

                           

                          Hope to hear/read something soon.

                           

                          Kind regards,

                           

                          UpperKEES

                          • 10. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                            Chris_2pha Level 1

                            They are probably waiting for someone to give them some example code. Ive been a bit busy.

                             

                            Also, I forgot to mention that Im on windows XP and getting this issue.

                            • 11. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                              chris.campbell Adobe Employee

                              Just wanted to pop in and give a quick update.  I was out of the office last thursday and friday, but we are still actively investigating this issue.  I hope to have more info soon.

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Chris

                              • 12. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                Dave F in Austin

                                Hey Chris - Any news to report about the issue? I have an anxious client/publisher who is very concerned about this problem.  I'm seeing all the above mentioned issues on recently launched edu-software title. Application has a lot of drag and drop interaction and is FULL_SCREEN_INTERACTIVE.Only seeing issues on Windows machines. Not Macs.

                                 

                                Perhaps it's too much to ask - but is it possible for Adobe to stop pushing the 2.0 Update until this issue is resolved or investigated further?

                                 

                                Thanks - Dave

                                • 13. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                  BeyondDudu Level 1

                                  Perhaps it's too much to ask - but is it possible for Adobe to stop pushing the 2.0 Update until this issue is resolved or investigated further?

                                  I second that !

                                   

                                  Cheers.

                                  • 14. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                    Away3D

                                    Having the same problem here, seems to hang or crash on the clients machine. Only resolve was to make them revert to 1.5 AIR player.

                                     

                                    -Peter

                                    • 15. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                      Fabrice3D Level 1

                                      Same here...

                                      My app, Prefab3D being a 3D app, it suffers a lot of this issue. Some unsanely high cpu consumption is to be noticed in some drawing cases.

                                       

                                      From users reports in both app and Away3D list and from tests I've runned, it seems the mac runtime suffers the most.

                                       

                                      On one feature of the app for instance (a primitives generator), mac shows a 125% activity for a single sphere on an healthy dual core machine

                                      while a 8 to 11% cpu is noted on windows7 for the same 2.0 runtime.

                                       

                                      Reinstalling 1.5 clears the issues.

                                      • 16. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                        GeraldGrote

                                        Our findings:

                                        Everytime the framerate drops below the maximum framerate, events are delayed until the framerate goes up again.

                                        This is really annoying and messes up some of our projects and client-reputation (we are considering moving away from AIR asap). To bad Adobe is pushing an update with issues like this.

                                        • 17. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                          virgil_wall Level 1

                                          My customers are doing the same thing.... uninstalling AIR 2, and reverting to 1.5.3.  This is the only way to correct their issues.  Interesting observation about the event delays.  I see the same thing.  In my app after a few minutes mouse events will get delays by 5 or 10 seconds.

                                           

                                          What makes this a real killer is that this update is being pushed to everyone, even now as we speak in spite of this issue.  To date, I really never thought much about this danger of deploying an AIR app.  But I'm doing everything I can currently to figure out a way to avoid AIR in the future.  If this had come at the beginning of a product launch for me, it would have been a total disaster.

                                          • 18. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                            UpperKEES Level 1

                                            The fact that we don't hear anything from ADOBE can only mean that this is a severe issue which won't be solved in the near future.

                                             

                                            The continous push of their updates indicates they don't realize what the effects are for companies using their products worldwide. Many users probably don't even know what slows down their machines so much and just stop using your software.

                                             

                                            Anybody experience with Zinc? http://www.multidmedia.com/

                                            • 19. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                              UpperKEES Level 1

                                              Hmmm, I just read this:

                                               

                                              we've been working on a number of performance issues with 2.0.2 and just
                                              fixed a Windows only issue

                                               

                                              See here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/2934802#2934802

                                               

                                              I wonder why this topic doesn't get updated....

                                               

                                              Edit: also see this topic: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/670165

                                              • 20. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                Robert Christensen Level 2

                                                My name is Rob Christensen and I am a product manager for Adobe AIR. I wanted to take a quick moment here and let you know that we believe we are now able to reproduce some of the performance issues described in this thread. We believe that we we have a fix for this issue and plan to make it available soon. We will be be reaching out to some of you on this thread to join our prerelease program and help verify that the issue is no longer reproducing in our latest internal builds.

                                                 

                                                Whenever you encounter a bug, please contact our team by submitting all relevant information necessary to reproduce the bug. You can use our feedback form to submit these bugs. Providing sample code helps tremendously when  tracking down performance issues.

                                                 

                                                Please stay tuned for future updates on this. Addressing this issue is a high priority for our team. We expect to release an update in the next several weeks. I will also be making available a tech note shortly that describes how to download older builds of the AIR runtime and SDK.

                                                 

                                                Thank you for your patience,

                                                 

                                                Rob Christensen

                                                Product Manager, Adobe AIR 

                                                • 21. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                  Away3D Level 1

                                                  Will the broken 2.0 be forced on people within the "next several weeks" as well?

                                                   

                                                  Also, what about the hundreds, if not thousands of people using a now broken Air App thanks to the bugs in 2.0?

                                                   

                                                  I am disappointed, even more than before, because now I know that I am not the only one with a now broken AIR app AND an unhappy/confused client.

                                                   

                                                  -Pete

                                                  • 22. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                    Robert Christensen Level 2

                                                    Pete,

                                                     

                                                    We are going to make a prerelease build available to you in order to verify the fix addresses the issue. Have you already submitted your feedback through the Wish form? http://www.adobe.com/go/wish/? This will help ensure we're tracking your particular issue.

                                                     

                                                    Also, below is a link to a tech note that describes how to download the AIR 1.5.3 versions of the AIR runtime and SDK. In addition, it also includes a link to an application that can be used to prevent the AIR runtime from automatically updating to new versions.

                                                     

                                                    http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/853/cpsid_85304.html

                                                     

                                                    I will follow-up with additional details on this issue once we verify whether our internal fix addresses the issue.

                                                     

                                                    -Rob

                                                    • 23. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                      katopz@sleepydesign.com Level 1

                                                      THB, feedback form didn't seem to work for me, i did report there once with out response

                                                      i suggest JIRA, easier to follow and tracking issues

                                                      lucky that after report my issue there, my case is slove!

                                                       

                                                      so, to all dev out there please take your time test on beta version before it release! i did!

                                                      and then report to JIRA, kudos anyone adobe team in JIRA bug base, they all active there!

                                                       

                                                      and to adobe team can you please add AIR to project category please!

                                                      http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/secure/BrowseProjects.jspa?selectedCategory=all

                                                       

                                                      my last time report AIR bug, i did submit to Flash Player project instead ;p

                                                       

                                                      thanks!

                                                      • 24. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                        ZedK

                                                        Hi,

                                                         

                                                        I've got the exact same issue (AIR 2.0.2.12610 on Windows 7 x64).

                                                        First time I found it, I thought I would just have to adapt some parts of my code in order to be AIR 2-compatible, but didn't have the time to do so, so I kept working with AIR 1.5.

                                                         

                                                        Today I was writing some class with a similar dragging function (basically a carousel the user can rotate with intertia using a touchscreen as input - btw, it's a mono-touch panel, which doesn't use Windows 7 digitalizer, so I'm using classic mouse events), and encountered the same problem.

                                                         

                                                        Seeing nothing wrong in my code, I searched bugs.adobe.com without any relevant result, and finally found this thread via google.

                                                         

                                                        I'm working on kiosk applications with AIR since its first version, and it's really a shame to find this kind of bugs in a release version...

                                                        I can't even use AIR 2 for my current projects (animated touch-screen applications with input events lag is like... totally useless), and so am unable to use multi-touch functionalities, native processes, and all the cool stuff introduced with this version.

                                                         

                                                        Some things I noted:

                                                        - It's a runtime issue ; targetting AIR 1.5 in your project won't change anything as long as you've got AIR 2.x runtime installed

                                                        - It seems there is no problem when you test your application in debug mode ; it only happens in release builds (the opposite would have been less problematic...)

                                                         

                                                        I'd really love Adobe team to keep us informed on this issue.

                                                        If there's an entry on JIRA about this issue, please post a link so I can vote for it and give more details.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks in advance.

                                                        • 25. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                          UpperKEES Level 1

                                                          Two weeks ago I read this:

                                                           

                                                          "We believe that we we have a fix for this issue and plan to make it  available soon." (see above)

                                                           

                                                          A month(!) has passed since the first reports were posted at these forums. Nothing has changed.

                                                           

                                                          Don't you see that Adobe is just fooling with you? They don't give any info and don't update this topic. Because there is NO GOOD NEWS!

                                                           

                                                          Just accept that Adobe is very unprofessional and doesn't care about it's customers.

                                                          • 26. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                            ZedK Level 1

                                                            I wouldn't be so harsh.

                                                             

                                                            I don't think Adobe doesn't care about us.

                                                            To be true, I think they sometimes care way too much.

                                                             

                                                            Typically by implementing stunning-but-not-so-useful functionalities (almost proofs of concept more than real functionalities) asked by us developers (like sound spectrum or dynamic sound generation APIs, Pixel Bender, Alchemy...), instead of working on the Flash Player performances, a far more important matter in my opinion, since a lot of end-users are literraly tired and sick of listening to their computer fans each time they're using a not-so-complex Flash application.

                                                            Even if developers are often to blame, we cannot deny the fact that, even if there has been progress, drawing performances are pretty low, especially if you're using a non-Microsoft operating system.

                                                             

                                                            But I agree with you on your other point: the lack of Flash Player optimization and this kind of huge bug in a release version seems rather unprofessional.

                                                             

                                                            Quite sad, since I really like Adobe products, and have been using them for more than 10 years now.

                                                            I really hope they will fix this issue quickly, and take the good decisions for the future of the Flash Platform (which I really love, btw).

                                                            • 27. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                              UpperKEES Level 1

                                                              It's my disappointment in their lack of effort to help people out.

                                                               

                                                              New features = new exposure = more revenue. They think in money, not in people.

                                                               

                                                              Typical for a company with a monopoly position. It's just waiting for the day that another -much better- product will be released that becomes the standard and it will be all over with Adobe within 1-2 years.

                                                              • 28. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                thilgen Level 4

                                                                UpperKEES

                                                                 

                                                                Just wanted to give you a note from the trenches here at AIR Dev Central.

                                                                 

                                                                Every development team here at Adobe takes customer feedback very, very seriously.

                                                                 

                                                                The advent of forums like this, where we have an opportunity to interface with our customers in almost real-time, is both awesome, and sometimes a little frustrating.

                                                                 

                                                                Please understand that pushing through fixes takes time, and that once we were made aware of this issue, a considerable amount of engineering time was spent tracking it down so we could ensure that we pushed a fix with the next minor release of AIR (coming very soon).

                                                                 

                                                                We have received some content from the community to verify our fix - and the fix looks good. If you have some content to share that we can also use to regress, we would love to get access to it.

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks,

                                                                 

                                                                Chris Thilgen
                                                                AIR Engineering

                                                                • 29. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                  UpperKEES Level 1

                                                                  Thank you for your reply.

                                                                   

                                                                  I hope this fix will indeed be released very soon and I also hope that your team will be able to find 5 minutes per week to keep us up to date in the future.

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks in advance.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                    chris.campbell Adobe Employee

                                                                    I'd just like to echo what Chris said above.  This has been a very high priority for us.  As Rob mentioned a couple of weeks ago we wanted to reach out to everyone in the thread who was effected and invite them into our prerelease program.   UpperKEES, please check your private mail on the forum and you should see an invite from me on June 30th.  If you're interested, please feel free to reply or contact me at ccampbel@adobe.com.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                    Chris

                                                                    • 31. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                      UpperKEES Level 1

                                                                      Although I am a developer, I am a user in this situation.

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks for the offer, but I'm not interested in alpha or beta releases. I will keep my eye on these forums however and am looking forward to the final release. Maybe with 'minor' changes, but hopefully with a large effect.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                        ZedK Level 1

                                                                        Thanks a lot for the feedback.

                                                                        I'm really glad to know that the fix is coming, it's great news!

                                                                         

                                                                        I can't send parts of my code, but I could try to reproduce it in a small application.

                                                                        Anyway, if you need any more testers, I'll be happy to help

                                                                        • 33. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                          Mr. Entropy

                                                                          Hi all,

                                                                           

                                                                          Is it possible to make any code changes to mitigate this issue until the update is released? I am experiencing this problem, but only during certain actions of my application. I'd prefer to see if I can avoid reverting back to Air 1.5.

                                                                           

                                                                          Best regards,

                                                                          • 34. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                            abeall Level 3

                                                                            I'm getting this mouse lag issue as well on my first AIR 2.0 project. Client isn't happy. Please add me to beta, I will be happy to share source. It's a relatively small fullScreenInteractive application running on a kiosk.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                              teamcooper

                                                                              Please help!

                                                                              We have been developing an AIR app for a client for the past 3 months (Flex 3.5) but have been experiencing severe performance issues on some machines that we have tested on (In particular a laptop running Win XP).

                                                                              We have spent days trying to get to the bottom of the issue and came to the conclusion that it could be AIR that was the problem. We then discovered this thread, and have uninstalled AIR 2.02 and reinstalled AIR 1.53. The performance issues are now gone. Obviously we cannot reccomend to the client that they tell all their users to downgrade to 1.5.3 before installing the app, so what can we do? Is a fix likely to be coming soon?

                                                                              • 36. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                                BobWarfield Level 1

                                                                                Same problem here with AIR 2.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Sure taking a long time to fix and with minimal feedback.  This is a pretty big deal bug for Adobe AIR and the thread is over a month old.  You've got an automatic updater out there that's making more and more of everyone's customers vulnerable to the bug as AIR 2 spreads.  Communication goes a long ways:

                                                                                 

                                                                                -  Can you characterize the bug at all further for us?

                                                                                 

                                                                                -  Someone asked if there were any workarounds and there was no response.

                                                                                 

                                                                                -  If you know what the bug is, what sorts of programs are likely to encounter it so people have some idea?

                                                                                 

                                                                                -  We need a target date for the update.

                                                                                 

                                                                                These are pretty typical questions to answer for developers.  When can we expect your help?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Sincerely,

                                                                                 

                                                                                Bob Warfield

                                                                                 

                                                                                Adobe: 7 Things You Should Do With Flash/Flex

                                                                                http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/adobe-7-things-you-should-do-with-flashflex/

                                                                                • 37. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                                  chris.campbell Adobe Employee

                                                                                  Hi guys,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  mr_entropy wrote:

                                                                                  Is it possible to make any code changes to mitigate this issue until the update is released?

                                                                                  I've been looking into this and I hope to have a more definitive answer soon.  I suspect it's not possible, or at least not trivial.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  abeall wrote:

                                                                                  Please add me to beta, I will be happy to share source.

                                                                                  Please check your private mail on the forum.  If anyone else is interested in verifying our fix, please feel free to send me a PM or email me at ccampbel@adobe.com.  I'm also willing to check your application against our latest build if you just want to point me to your AIR app.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  teamcooper wrote:

                                                                                  Is a fix likely to be coming soon?

                                                                                  As Rob noted above, we anticipate an update coming in early August.  We're still on track for this and I'll let you know asap if anything changes.  Unfortunately, I can't give an exact date due to external influences on our schedule.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  BobWarfield wrote:

                                                                                  -  Can you characterize the bug at all further for us?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  -  Someone asked if there were any workarounds and there was no response.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  -  If you know what the bug is, what sorts of programs are likely to encounter it so people have some idea?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  -  We need a target date for the update.

                                                                                  This bug is Windows only, and only occurs with certain hardware specific configurations (I believe it's GPU based).  It typically manifests itself during user interaction with the mouse and keyboard.  The typical application is usually graphic intensive, but we've also seen it occur after popup windows/dialogs have been dismissed on normal looking forms.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Thanks,

                                                                                  Chris

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                                    Robert Christensen Level 2

                                                                                    We are expecting to release an update that should address most of the performance issues described on this thread. Thank you to those that offered to join our prerelease program to help verify the issues. Please keep an eye on our blog for news related to the update: http://blogs.adobe.com/air/ -- we appreciate your patience.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    -Rob

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Air 1.5 vs 2.0 performance
                                                                                      abeall Level 3

                                                                                      That's great news!

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Probably not important at this point but I thought I'd follow up with a workaround I found for my current app without reverting to AIR 1.5:

                                                                                       

                                                                                      The problem only happened when stage.displayState wasn't NORMAL, ie if it was FULL_SCREEN or FULL_SCREEN_INTERACTIVE. Since the application (a kiosk app) was designed to run in full screen all the time anyway, I changed it to chromeless (opaque) and simply used maximize() and restore() instead of changing stage.displayState. Everything seems to work okay now.

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