38 Replies Latest reply on Mar 1, 2017 2:53 PM by marinaw0lf

    Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5

    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

      Can anyone create a flattener preset to outline all text as described at http://indesignsecrets.com/converting-text-to-outlines-the-right-way.php and actually get it to outline text on export in CS5? Not working for me on XP SP2...

        • 1. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
          Stix Hart Level 5

          That's an annoying thing to find.  I hadn't needed to do that yet, but nope, didn't work (I'm also Windows XP SP2).  This is on a shiny new install too, exported to IDML, opened in CS4, did the same thing and it worked fine.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            I'd like to hear from some Mac users and Windows 7 users, too, before filing the bug...

            • 3. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
              Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

              Peter,

               

              I can definitively confirm that there is a significant difference between the way InDesign 7 and InDesign 6 handles flattening with regards to the Convert All Text to Outlines option. Note that none of the transparency flattening options are OS or OS version-dependent.

               

              You should not assume that the Convert All Text to Outlines option is necessarily going to convert all text on a page to outlines simply because there is some transparency on the page, although it appears that the transparency flattener in InDesign 6 and earlier exhibits such behaviour. That was not the intent of the Convert All Text to Outlines option.

               

              The actual intent behind the Convert All Text to Outlines option is that if you have any situation that actually causes any text on a page to be involved in transparency flattening, then treat all the text on the page as if it was so-involved such that you don't have visual discontinuities and/or flattening artifacts on that page (i.e., fattening of the text only where flattening must be performed). The Convert All Text to Outlines was never designed as a cheap trick for unconditionally converting all text to outlines to satisfy the needs of 1990s-era workflows.

               

              The transparency flattener has been significantly refined over the years to avoid flattening wherever possible. Apparently, the CS5 transparency flattener was improved such that if indeed transparency doesn't affect any text on the page, the flattener does not apply the Convert All Text to Outlines option since there would be no visual text anomalies due to flattening. This improvement apparently ruined the hackery recommended in David Blatner's article on InDesignSecrets.com.

               

              It is not all that difficult, though, to modify David Blatner's hacks to actual force the Convert All Text to Outlines to in fact unconditionally convert all text to outlines. What you need to do is force some text, no matter how small or how ridiculously colored, into a situation that actually requires flattening. Thus, if on your master page, you were to create in the page margin a text frame with a 0.1pt period with a 0.5% black tint and overlay that with a very small polygon filled 100%K with opacity of 0.1%, you would force a condition that would cause the Convert All Text to Outlines to kick in, providing the “desired” results. I've tried this and it indeed works with InDesign 7.

               

                        - Dov

               

              PS:     At Adobe, we would not consider this change in behaviour as a bug.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                The Convert All Text to Outlines was never designed as a cheap trick for unconditionally converting all text to outlines to satisfy the needs of 1990s-era workflows.

                Hey Dov, when I submit a feature request about this, can I quote you on this matter?

                • 5. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                  Thanks, Dov.

                   

                  I have no quarrel with the new behavior, except that the flattener preview is telling me the text WILL be outlined. I'd say that's a problem.

                  • 6. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                    Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                    Agreed, the previewer is apparently lying!

                     

                              - Dov

                    • 7. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                      Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                      Joel Cherney wrote:

                       

                      The Convert All Text to Outlines was never designed as a cheap trick for unconditionally converting all text to outlines to satisfy the needs of 1990s-era workflows or coal-powered, steam-driven antique RIPs!

                      Hey Dov, when I submit a feature request about this, can I quote you on this matter?

                       

                      Feel free to quote me (including my name, rank, and serial number) only if you also include the additional text I appended above in red!

                       

                                - Dov

                      • 8. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                        Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        With great pleasure, Dov.

                        • 9. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          OK, I guess I can file a bug for the preview. Tomorrow.

                          • 10. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                            Mr. Andersson Level 1

                            Dov,

                             

                            I've done some package designs this week where the templates originates from China. I am doing new designs and they are going back to Chine to be printed. The communications are bad. It's more or less hold thumbs and pray that they will manage this. So I'd like to avoid any possible font issues this time and convert all text to outlines.

                             

                            The Chinese templates where a mix of Illustrator files and jpeg files. I redraw the jpeg files in InDesign where I am most familiar. So when I was finished I had a few different file types to export to pdf. I've read your answer about the new way this should work in CS5. This is what I experienced:

                             

                            Indesign CS5: no text was converted to outlines when I expected it to be (a la CS4)

                            Illustrator CS5: text was indeed outlined when I did the same thing there

                             

                            I guess this could be a fluke where some of my files trigger the outlining and those files happens to be made in Illustrator. My question to you is if there are any known problems in this area?

                             

                            Furher more I use the X-1a:2001 profile when exporting the pdf

                            There is a flattener option in one of the settings there where I used to chose my outlining setting in CS 4.

                             

                            The Illustrator files I received from China have this setting

                            The new Illustrator files I create myself from scratch have this area greyed out.

                            Any comments about this?

                            • 11. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                              Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                              Without the ability to actually see and examine the Illustrator file in question, I really cannot answer your question. Since the ability to force character outlining other than in the content of transparency artifacts is not considered a "feature" by Adobe, we typically wouldn't hear about any issues with this.

                               

                              Of course the answer that I normally give is that there is something very wrong with any printer, in the USA, Europe, China, or anywhere else that cannot handle printing of a PDF file with all fonts embedded and without "outlining hackery." By the way, one of the ironies in today's print industry that I've found is that quite often, printers in some developing countries are actually using more modern equipment, software, and print workflows than some of their Luddite counterparts in supposedly developed countries.

                               

                                        - Dov

                              • 12. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                Mr. Andersson Level 1

                                Ok, I had another question too. Lets skip the old files and only talk about new CS5 files.

                                 

                                - New InDesign CS5 document

                                - Export to PDF

                                - Choose the built in X 2001 profile

                                - The flattener options are selectable (low, medium, high)

                                 

                                Same thing in Illustrator CS5

                                - New document

                                - Save as PDF

                                - Choose the built in X 2001 profile

                                - The flattener options are now grayed out

                                 

                                There are more options than the outlining of text in these settings so I just find it odd that they are grayed out in Illustrator.

                                 

                                Can you verify this behavior?

                                • 13. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                  Ratko Asanovic Level 1

                                  Yep, I can confirm this behavior too. I was always using Transparency Flattener presets for outlining fonts but in cs5 simply not work. I do end up with PDF with live text even if I have set it to be outlined with Transparency Flattener. I am using both Mac OS Snow Leopard 10.6.4 and Windows 7 64bit and at both OS this function is not working.

                                  • 14. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                    Stix Hart Level 5

                                    @ Ratko, just read Dov's post and you'll find out why it's not working and why it's not meant to, and how to fix it.  In short apply the transperancy effect to a piece of text instead of an object.

                                    • 15. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                      Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      @Dov: it's out of question, that up-to-date printers should be able to work with "all fonts embedded"-pdfs, but here in Germany some of the big online printers demand text-to-path pdfs for their workflow otherwise they charge an extra for preflight and/or doing the conversion themselves.

                                       

                                      So to deliver pdfs totally stripped from font information I made up the following workflow:
                                      1. For every page there is an rectangle above all other objects with fill color set to "white" and "0" % of opacity in size and position of the bleed box
                                      (a tiny box would not trigger text to path conversion for placed EPS or PDFs, which can contain font information in themselves)

                                      2. A flattener preset with "convert all text to outlines" checked

                                      3. No printing marks checked in the pdf output preset

                                      3. PDF version 1.3 for output

                                       

                                      That approach always worked in InDesign CS3 or CS4 for producing pdfs totally stripped from font information (and therefore no hustle with the online printers)…

                                       

                                      So we have to accept that it is not a bug, if this (to an extend) does not work any longer in InDesign CS5. And if I get you right, in transparency preview we do have a bug in showing all texts are outlined when in fact they're not?

                                       

                                      In fiddling arround with flattener presets, old from CS4 and new set up in CS5, I found out, that old presets from CS4 imported to CS5 made a big difference in behaviour. Taking an old preset always converted text to outline whenever the new preset failed.

                                       

                                      Further I discovered that I could inject custom flattener presets to my pdf export presets while exporting by script; and they will work as in InDesign CS3 and CS4. All text is outlined. I strongly doubt that the new behaviour of InDesign CS5 flattener presets is no bug…

                                       

                                      I'm on InDesign CS5 7.0.1 German Version and Mac OS X 10.5.8.

                                       

                                      Uwe

                                      • 16. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                        Mr. Andersson Level 1

                                        Thanks Uwe for this info.

                                         

                                        My personal take on all this is that Adobe also sells fonts and rip solutions. The flattener settings, as used before, is not good marketing any more. There is no need to make outlines with our products. This sounds much better than "if everything should crash do it like this".

                                        - - -

                                         

                                        What can you see in the case of the discrepancy between InDesign/Illustrator as I mentioned above?

                                        I am asking because you are using the same output format (1.3)

                                        • 17. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                          Ratko Asanovic Level 1

                                          Well, we will find a workaround always to get the job done. Usually newly created PDF I do fix that with Acrobat but it takes more of my time that should be done on first place from application where PDF is created. Concerning RIP solutions due to my business I would never use anything except Heidelberg ones since in my company we do own Heidelberg offset presses, Heidelberg Suprasetter CtP and naturally software|RIP that drives it is Prinect Meta Dimension and for imposition Prinect Signa Station from Heidelberg and they are proven to be the best for this kind of job so everything other for that mater is meaningless.

                                           

                                          I just hate the fact that now I have to fiddle around with text to make it somewhere transparent so that transparancy flattener would actually flatten it. And in Illustrator that function is grayed out. If that is a case as said previously that over the years transparency flattener is enhanced so it doesn't flattening what is not neccessary, then why not the same model is applied to Illustrator.

                                          • 18. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                            Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                            Some further comments:

                                             

                                            (1)     We know of no RIP software using Adobe RIP technology - either PostScript or direct PDF-based - that has ever had a problem using fonts properly embedded in a PDF file. And if you include RIPs with software not based on Adobe technology, that is probably also true for at least the last half dozen years. Just as Adobe applications no longer support PostScript Level 1 RIPs and printers, we have no intention of trying to artificially support ancient, buggy RIPs.

                                             

                                            (2)     Why are you making this Adobe's problem? Why not pressure these big on-line printers in Germany to at least accept the Ghent PDF Workgroup standards for PDF/X in which there certainly is no requirement for converting text to outlines. Supposedly, all members of European print trade associations follow such standards. By the way, as often discussed in these forums, outlining of text results in often noticeably poorer printed quality. If you can complain to Adobe, complain to these printers with either archaic workflows and/or archaic training and policies (they wonder why they are losing business to third world printers who have already adopted modern workflows supporting live transparency and color management!).

                                             

                                            (3)     At some point in the future, you might even expect to see PDF export from Adobe applications not even providing flattening options - PDF 1.4 or higher with live transparency, all fonts embedded, and color management is the only way to produce PDF that yields reliable publishing workflows. (Note this is not a decision that has been made yet.)

                                             

                                                      - Dov

                                            • 19. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                              Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                              What is done with regards to PDF export has nothing to do with our font and RIP business.

                                               

                                              However:

                                               

                                              (1)     All Adobe fonts are embeddable in PDF files. Some other font vendors provide licenses that not only prohibit embedding in a PDF file, but they also prohibit outlining as a workaround. Complain to such vendors or simply avoid their products. There are quite a few font foundries out there, not just Adobe, that allow for font embedding in PDF.

                                               

                                              (2)     Contrary to what you may think, the Adobe graphic arts applications weren't developed to push sales of Adobe RIP technologies. To the contrary, the most recent Adobe RIP technology, the Adobe PDF Print Engine (I'm the spiritual venture capitalist behind that project within Adobe) was developed to fix the problems caused by flattening and outlining. You can now very reliably print from PDF/X-4 and other modern version PDF directly generated by Adobe applications.

                                               

                                              In other words, our font and RIP businesses adapted to what our applications and designers wanted and needed.

                                               

                                                        - Dov

                                              • 20. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                Stix Hart Level 5

                                                Dov Isaacs wrote:

                                                 

                                                (3)     At some point in the future, you might even expect to see PDF export from Adobe applications not even providing flattening options - PDF 1.4 or higher with live transparency, all fonts embedded, and color management is the only way to produce PDF that yields reliable publishing workflows  Adobe shafting everyone who hasn't got the money to upgrade their workflows to the latest, and everyone using legacy workflows, and generally being very unpractical. (Note this is not a decision that has been made yet.)

                                                 

                                                          - Dov


                                                There, fixed that for ya.

                                                 

                                                Dov, please don't take this personally, and I know it won't be your decision to make, but if Adobe wants to really cement the perception some people have of Adobe being a big arrogant organisation that doesn't care about your small users, you've come up with a brilliant way to do it.  Let me say this slowly and carefully:

                                                 

                                                Some businesses are barely making money at the moment.  They have perfectly functional workflows but they rely on outlining fonts.  Making it hard / impossible for them to keep operating is not cool.

                                                 

                                                Let me point out that we don't do it as a matter of course, but for some of our out sourcing it is a neccesary evil.  How about the small business making embossing blocks with photolithography that needs film to do so, so has an old inexpensive imagesetter sitting there (which you can't buy a new version of) and which (surprise!) needs outlined fonts to "produce PDF that yields reliable publishing workflows"?

                                                 

                                                Let me finish by saying I have a huge amount of respect for your knowledge, commitment to and support of PDF standards and all the background information that most of us users wouldn't begin to have the slightest clue about.  However scorning font outlining in all circumstances is not taking a 'real world' approach.

                                                • 21. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                  Mr. Andersson Level 1

                                                  Ok, what about the discrepancy between InDesign and Illustrator which I asked about above? Is it only like this in my Mac, is it a bug, or a feature somehow?

                                                   

                                                  InDesign X 2001 preset flattener settings greyed out

                                                   

                                                  Illustrator X 2001 preset flattener settings active

                                                  • 22. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                    Stix Hart Level 5

                                                    Mr. Andersson, it would be best to start a new thread asking for help on this.  And unfortunately you can't expect Indesign and Illustrator to behave exactly the same, they are quite different products underneath, although they are made to look the same and shipped in the same package.

                                                     

                                                    Edit: and remember that this is a user to user forum, Dov is contributing in here out of professional courtesy.

                                                    • 23. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                      Mr. Andersson Level 1

                                                      Yes of course I could do that but what would the subject line be?

                                                       

                                                      "Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5"

                                                       

                                                      Looks like this thread would cover this matter ...

                                                      • 24. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                        Arbor Vitie Level 1

                                                        "Why not pressure these big on-line printers in Germany to at least ... At some point in the future ... the only way to produce PDF that yields reliable publishing workflows. (Note this is not a decision that has been made yet.)"

                                                         

                                                        The arrogance!

                                                         

                                                        No offense, Adobe Employee Dov Issacs, but I have a magazine to get out today. I have some advertisers who pay my bills but who have little knowledge about how to produce good PDFs, who have not been able to produce a perfect PDF ever!!!!!

                                                         

                                                        I've prodded, taught, lectured, and begged, to no avail. If I continue to bug them, I could lose them entirely.

                                                         

                                                        Now, I could just tell them to go jump in the lake, but then they might spend all their advertising budget with one of our competitors.

                                                         

                                                        In CS3, I had a workaround. Now, in CS5, I've found Adobe doesn't give one whit about my problems.

                                                         

                                                        Unlike Adobe, I cannot afford to piss off or ignore any of my clients.

                                                         

                                                        In case it isn't obvious, I'm sitting here at 5 a.m. on my supposed holiday trying to find a fix.

                                                         

                                                        This is the real world, not some Adobe fantasy land, where you can tell your customers what they will do.

                                                         

                                                        Has Adobe decided to be like Microsoft, and tell the customer what they should want instead of the other way around?

                                                         

                                                        I've been a loyal Adobe customer since Illustrator 88. If Adobe doesn't get its head out of its rear, CS5 may be the last Adobe product I buy.

                                                        • 25. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                          Arbor Vitie Level 1

                                                          There, fixed that for ya.

                                                           

                                                          Good post, but forced live transparency won't fix it for me.

                                                           

                                                          This morning, I discovered that my client sent a PDF that used a font we don't have and they doubled everything slightly offset.

                                                           

                                                          The only fix at 5 am is to convert to outlines and use Illustrator to delete the duplicates character by character. If I don't, some screwy flattener thing happens that converts everything on that object to bitmaps in the CS5 PDF.

                                                           

                                                          This is driving me crazy. I've never regretted an upgrade from one CS version to another until this one.

                                                          • 26. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                            Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                                                            What is it that you could do in InDesign 5 that you cannot do in InDesign 7?

                                                             

                                                            If you are referring to the side affect hack that forces text to outlines on a page, if you look at the full thread you will see that I indeed offer a workaround that yields the same result with InDesign 7 as with InDesign 5.

                                                             

                                                            And to be very clear, we have many users who are upset because we allow such hackery and don't enforce reliable PDF principles.

                                                             

                                                                     - Dov

                                                            • 27. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                              Arbor Vitie Level 1

                                                              Thanks for your response.

                                                               

                                                              Before I posted earlier, I read the whole thread, your workaround, and a couple of threads that referenced this thread.

                                                               

                                                              I followed your instructions to the letter and couldn't get it to work on that document. Thankfully, I hadn't trashed CS3, so I was able to make the type outlines  that way.

                                                               

                                                              Navigator is something that disappeared between CS3 and CS5.

                                                               

                                                              I'm the queen of shortcuts and key combos, but Power Zoom requires extra keystrokes and mouse movements in some circumstances.

                                                               

                                                              A prime example — I take editing instructions over the phone for multi-colum documents. "Page 22, right column, third paragraph, fourth line ..." There might be 10 or 20 small edits on each spread. Navigator was especially useful for that because I could enlarge the type for my poor old eyes, yet see with a glance where I was on the spread. Moving to another spot on the same spread was a single click, with no risk of adding an unwanted character by accident, and no need to zoom or scroll.

                                                               

                                                              With the Navigator and Pages pallets open, it was perfect for editing. Power Zoom requires extra steps, plus I can't see where I am on a spread without zooming or dragging. I use Power Zoom for other things.

                                                               

                                                              How much would it have cost to leave Navigator there for those of use who found it useful? Let me have Navigator AND Powerzoom. Hide Navigator in a preference pane if you must.

                                                               

                                                              And to be very clear, we have many users who are upset because we allow such hackery and don't enforce reliable PDF principles.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Preflighting and named PDF presets, such as PDF/X, should satisfy most output bureaus, while customizable options provide clients the flexibility to do something else when we need to.

                                                               

                                                              (3)     At some point in the future, you might even expect to see PDF export from Adobe applications not even providing flattening options - PDF 1.4 or higher with live transparency, all fonts embedded, and color management is the only way to produce PDF that yields reliable publishing workflows. (Note this is not a decision that has been made yet.)

                                                               

                                                               

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              There are layers and layers of people who make up the worldwide graphics community,  who use PDFs for much more than just reliable PDF workflow. Take away our options, and someone else will fill the void, I guarantee.

                                                               

                                                              Flexibility to be creative, efficient and deal with a multitude of sources and problems is what we need, not restrictions on the way we choose to or need to work.

                                                               

                                                              Thanks, again.

                                                              • 28. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                ziofonta222 Level 1

                                                                Hello Dov and thanks for your support,

                                                                i am using indesign 7, i tried to put a small text with black tint at 0,5 percent, and i put a rectangle over it with 100k fill and 0,1 percent opacity, but the flattening transparency does not convert texts yet. Anyway it should be useful to have an option to force flattening. One printing service is asking me to provide a pdf in PDF/X-3:2002, Acrobat 4, single layer, no transparency, text converted to shapes, so forcing flattening should be very useful in such case.

                                                                where am i doing wrong with flattening?

                                                                thanx

                                                                Daniele

                                                                • 29. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                  Ratko Asanovic Level 1

                                                                  ^

                                                                   

                                                                  Go to EDIT > TRANSPARENCY FLATTENER PRESETS and from there create new preset with Convert All Text to Outlines checked. And when exporting PDF in Export PDF dialogand  in Advanced section of it for Transparency Flattener choose the one you have made. It will be listed there. So your PDF when created should not have any live text. This should solve the problem.

                                                                   

                                                                  But as a sidenote I do not understand why they would ask all fonts converted as outlines in PDF when all modern RIPs could read all embedded fonts. And not to mention for RIP is easier to rip the PDF when all fonts are embedded instead of all text converted in outlines. If you need in detail instructions to create full print ready PDF file feel free to contact me.

                                                                   

                                                                  Cheers,

                                                                  Ratko

                                                                  • 30. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                    Mr. Andersson Level 1

                                                                    Looks like you are describing the function that we miss from earlier versions. Are you sure you have ID CS5 or CS5.5?

                                                                     

                                                                    And about the sidenote...  clients have found out that printing in China is cheap as hell (and also good quality). I have not met one chinese printer yet not asking for outlines and still I always forget to do it ... "please no outline text will be fine mister "

                                                                    • 31. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                      ziofonta222 Level 1

                                                                      thanks for answering,

                                                                      Ratko, i already created one preset based on high quality, checking the option to convert all text to Outlines, since it didnt worked i search the web and came to this thread, where Dov suggested a workaround to force the flattening, but it does not work for me. I'm usign ID CS5.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                        ziofonta222 Level 1

                                                                        i agree with you about outlining texts, this time i cant choose the printing service because my customer want to print with this one http://www.flyeralarm.com/it/docs/21/file-di-stampa, as u can see they asks for flattened transparency and outlined texts (that is little bit pre-hystoric!)

                                                                        • 33. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                          Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          ziofonta222:

                                                                           

                                                                          what is working for me is (use this recipe at your own risk(!) and read it fully(!) before executing):

                                                                           

                                                                          1. put a new layer on top of all your layers, name it "text2path" (just to give it a descriptive name)

                                                                           

                                                                          2. go to all your master spreads and add a rectangle filled with color [Paper], stretched all over the spread from edge to edge plus the bleed area, set it to 0% opacity (YES really: ZERO opacity)


                                                                          3. in the pages panel make sure that the small square that indicates transparency on a page shows checkered for all pages


                                                                          4. go to Edit/Transparency Flattener Presets… and create a new Flattener Preset with:
                                                                          4.1 Raster/Vector balance: 100 on the Vector side
                                                                          4.2 Line Art and Text Resolution: 1200 ppi
                                                                          4.3 Gradient and Mesh resultion: 600 ppi
                                                                          4.4 Convert All Text to Outlines checked
                                                                          4.5 Convert All Strokes to Outlines checked
                                                                          4.6 Name it (for descriptive reasons) "text2path"


                                                                          5. go to Window/Output/Flattener Prieview and check all spreads of your document with:
                                                                          5.1 Highlight Outlined Text
                                                                          5.2 Auto Refresh Highlight

                                                                          5.3 Preset "text2path" (that is your flattener preset)
                                                                          5.4 check "Ignore Spread Overrides"

                                                                           

                                                                          6. if you checked all spreads and you are sure that all text is shown as highlighted (in my case in color red, that's the default color for that), print your document to PostScript by including (amongst others):

                                                                           

                                                                          Printer: PostScript file
                                                                          PPD: Adobe PDF 9.0


                                                                          Advanced/Transparency Flattener: "text2path" (again, that is your flattener preset) and check "Ignore Spread overrides".

                                                                           

                                                                          If you are on Mac OSX 10.6.x read about how to implement the Adobe PDF 9.0 ppd with InDesign CS5:

                                                                          http://mymacfixes.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-can-i-still-create-postscript-files.html
                                                                          or:
                                                                          http://indesignsecrets.com/creating-postscript-files-in-snow-leopard-for-older-print-workf lows.php

                                                                           

                                                                          7. Then convert the PostScript file to PDF using Distiller software that comes with Acrobat Pro.
                                                                          Be aware to use the predefined joboptions "PDF/X-3: 2002" and tweak it in the last tab for Standards:
                                                                          with the predefined profile name (yes, you have to install that before hand): ISO Coated v2 300% (ECI).

                                                                           

                                                                          Where to get the color profile? See:
                                                                          http://www.eci.org/doku.php?id=en:downloads

                                                                           

                                                                          and there download: "eci_offset_2009.zip"


                                                                          Of course make sure that all your pictures are converted to that profile and none of your vector page objects exceed a TOC of 300 % and that  no color convertion is taking place neither in printing to PostScript nor in the joboptions for Distiller. Do NOT use trim- or bleed marks when printing. Just set the bleed to 1 mm and honour that bleed.

                                                                           

                                                                          8. final step: do a preflight in Acrobat Pro, check if the TOC does really not exceeds 300% and check if there are any fonts left in the PDF.

                                                                           

                                                                          Hope that helps,
                                                                          Uwe

                                                                          • 34. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                            ziofonta222 Level 1

                                                                            thank you Laubender for your support.

                                                                            It worked with these simple setting (I tried again after restarting ID7).

                                                                            Setting a text with 0,5 percent black, and putting a rectangle filled with paper colour and 0% opacity (it also works with 0,1% or similar)

                                                                            then you set a transparency flattener preset as you described (it is not necessary to check the stroke to outline)

                                                                            very useful the Window/Output/Flattener Preview to set as you described, to have a preview of the result.

                                                                            then i just exported in  PDF/X-3:2002, Acrobat 4 with colour convertion into FOGRA 27 (ISO Coated v2) specifying to use the transparency flattener preset, and this time it worked perfectly. You can realize that the flattening is done because the document file size increases (almost double in my case)

                                                                            thank you again for your suggestions!

                                                                            • 35. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                              omegamike Level 1

                                                                              I'm just confronting this problem for the first time due to a new vendor with an antiquated workflow. I've messed around for a couple of hours trying to get the transparency flattener to work for me. The preview would show all the text being flattened then nothing in the pdf.

                                                                               

                                                                              The key is to close and restart ID5.5 (I'm using 7.5.3). I was pulling my hair out. Hope this helps someone else.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                                rngauv@zamboni.com Level 1

                                                                                It's 2016 and I'm still dealing with this issue in both Illustrator and Indesign. We have various vinyl label printers that REQUIRE us to deliver files in EPS with fonts outlined. I don't have a choice.

                                                                                If I check the box that says "Outline Text" then it should do it. Why would I check the box if I didn't want that to happen?

                                                                                I've tried the trick written in the Indesign secrets article and that worked for a while and magically the last few files about 10 pages or so didn't actually outline the fonts. Although it worked for 30 other files. Luckily our printer caught the error and I had a chance to manually outline it and resend the file.

                                                                                 

                                                                                As for solutions right now...

                                                                                It's like somebody else mentioned in the thread.

                                                                                Make a tiny rectangle, place it in the bleed area. Make that rectangle transparency = 0%

                                                                                Make a text layer with one letter, let's say "a" place it over that rectangle. Make this letter transparency = 0%

                                                                                Basically SOME text on the page has to interact with transparency for the whole page to be forced to outline fonts.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Create a transparency flattener preset like Ziofonta22 said --

                                                                                4. go to Edit/Transparency Flattener Presets… and create a new Flattener Preset with:
                                                                                4.1 Raster/Vector balance: 100 on the Vector side
                                                                                4.2 Line Art and Text Resolution: 1200 ppi
                                                                                4.3 Gradient and Mesh resultion: 600 ppi
                                                                                4.4 Convert All Text to Outlines checked
                                                                                4.5 Convert All Strokes to Outlines checked
                                                                                4.6 Name it (for descriptive reasons) "text2path"

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                Save as PDF / EPS with this transparency flattener present chosen in the advanced tab.

                                                                                Close the PDF / EPS you just created.

                                                                                Reopen it.

                                                                                Check and see and you should have outlined fonts.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                                  Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                  Sorry, don't outline in InDesign.

                                                                                  Today, in 2016, we have better methods, than in 2010:

                                                                                  1. Export a PDF/X-4 from InDesign.
                                                                                  2. Open it in Acrobat Pro DC
                                                                                  3. Go to Print Production > Preflieght and look for Convert text in Curves, apply that profile.
                                                                                  4. Save that PDF as EPS.
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Possible bug: oulining text w/ flattener in CS5
                                                                                    marinaw0lf Level 1

                                                                                    Thank you for this update, I have a printer who needs everything outlined and it has been arduous. This works perfectly, you just saved me hours of work!