8 Replies Latest reply on Jun 17, 2010 8:27 AM by Senhor Barriga

    Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?

    Senhor Barriga

      Hi all,

       

      I have bought a CANON HFS10 Vixia AVCHD camera, I`ve made some footage using the "24p cinema" mode.

       

      When using media browser in PPCS5 and importing it, it still indicates (like in CS4) under "properties", that the footage is "29.97 fps", as CS5 is compatible with this camera specifically, shouldn`t CS5 indicate something like "24 cinema Canon mode" or so ?

       

      It`s my understanding that the Canon camera produces a 24 fps footage "wrapped" in a 29.97 container; it`s also my understanding that, as CS4 is not compatible with this camera, it looked ONLY at the wrapper and said under properties "29.97 fps", that sounds reasonable for me.

       

      But what about CS5 ? How do I know if it is really "seeing" the 24p footage wrapped in a 29.97 fps wrapper if it still says "29.97 fps" ? Will it perform the editing and exporting correctly even though ?

       

      Thank you very much,

       

      RK

        • 1. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Try it and you will know.

           

          If the camera wraps the footage in a 29.97 container, CS5 has to treat it like that. What if Canon decides to wrap their 18P or 12P format in a 29.97 container? (This is only for over-zealous stutter fanatics with a hang-up about filmic looks of course, but there are some around). CS5 can only use the container.

          • 2. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
            Senhor Barriga Level 1

            I`m not sure if CS5 "has to" treat it like that, as now Adobe says that CS

            5 is SPECIFICALLY compatible with THIS setting at THIS camera.

             

            So, maybe should I just use the "intyerpret footage" feature ?

             

            Any other opinions please ?

             

            Thanks,

            • 3. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              The problem is that Premiere's "Interpret Footage" is pretty non-discriminatory--unless a 24p over 60i stream is flagged, it doesn't know which frames to remove. Add to that Canon's 18/12 cadence (like Harm mentioned), and you're not going to have very good results with Premiere alone.

               

              Do you have/have access to After Effects? If so, you can import the footage and use the Interpret command there, which is much more capable than that in Premiere. Use the "Guess 3:2 pulldown" button, and you should end up with a 24p clip with no interlaced frames. I've done the same recently with 1080/24pF from a Canon HV20--works a treat. You can either export a 24p AVI/MOV, or use Dynamic Link if you have it.

               

              EDIT: Did you try dropping the clip into a 24p sequence preset? I guess it's possible that CS5 knows what to do once the footage is in use. Step through the sequence frame by frame, and look for blended frames; if you don't see any, then it's automatically removing pulldown on the fly.

              • 4. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
                Senhor Barriga Level 1

                Thanks Colin,

                 

                I was wondering though.....shouldn`t I just NOT DO Anything ?

                 

                There`s an Adobe document at its web site talking specifically about the

                Canon cameras, it mentions specifically my camera and the so-called "24p

                cinema" format.

                 

                It says that I can use Media Browser to import the files and...that`s

                all, it doesn`t go any further.The option Interpret footage -> remove

                pulldown is greyed out for me (?)

                 

                I wonder if I could just edit it normally (labelled as 29.97fps

                though..) and export the timeline as 23.976p....?

                 

                Which results would I achieve ? I`m trying to avoid  spending some

                expensive blu-ray medias doing tests;

                 

                Thanks,

                • 5. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  I was wondering though.....shouldn`t I just NOT DO Anything ?

                  Well, that would be ideal... but you know how THAT goes

                  There`s an Adobe document at its web site talking specifically about the

                  Canon cameras, it mentions specifically my camera and the so-called "24p

                  cinema" format.

                  Can you post a link? I'm just curious what it says. The biggest issue is that Canon actually has (at least) two different 24p "formats," and your camcorder records to the not-so-easy-to-deal-with version. It's what Canon deems "24pf," which means that it records 18 progressive frames and 12 interlaced frames, but it doesn't flag which are which, so programs that are not able to determine the pulldown cadence can't remove the necessary frames to create a true 24p clip. After Effects (and a number of other methods) can determine the cadence, but that's an extra step, obviously.

                  It says that I can use Media Browser to import the files and...that`s

                  all, it doesn`t go any further.The option Interpret footage -> remove

                  pulldown is greyed out for me (?)

                  Yeah, that makes sense, given the above. Do you have a really short clip you wouldn't mind uploading somewhere for a test? I can't find one anywhere online...

                  I wonder if I could just edit it normally (labelled as 29.97fps

                  though..) and export the timeline as 23.976p....?

                   

                  Which results would I achieve ? I`m trying to avoid  spending some

                  expensive blu-ray medias doing tests;

                  You could, technically speaking, but aesthetically, you'd be pretty displeased with the results. The export process isn't any smarter than the import process, so unless you do the necessary steps, you won't get a good, clean 24p encode.

                  • 6. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
                    Senhor Barriga Level 1

                    Hi Colin,

                     

                    Thanks again, this is the link in which Adobe claims that PP CS5 is compatible with Canon`s 24p cinema mode:

                     

                    http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/pdfs/cs5_premiere_pro_canon_wfg.pdf

                     

                    I made a test last night importing the MTS files through media browser and keeping the sequence settings as Adobe identified in the file properties: 29.97i, 1920 X 1080 anamorphic.

                     

                    When I loaded the file in the sequence, a thin yellow line appeared, probably (?) telling me that the sequence properties was in accordance to the file properties (?). There was no red line as when I set the sequence properties to 23.976p.

                     

                    I burned the blu-ray media in Encore using Dynamic link, using the same settings: H264, 29.97i, 1920 x 1080.

                     

                    Results: GOOD ! very good picture quality and I think I achieved the "cinema look" that Canon claims that the camera is capable of.

                     

                    Well, all I can think is that the user has to treat the file considering its "wrapper": 29.97i; although supposdly the "real" footage is 23.976fps as I have set in the camera settings.

                     

                    Thanks for your help, I`ll go ahead now.

                     

                    Regards,

                    SB

                    • 7. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      Yep, I'd found that document last night after I did some searching. And you're right--it's pretty vague. Since they don't specifically say "you can edit this in a 24p timeline" you probably just have to assume that you can't. As I think I mentioned, without pulldown flags, there's no easy way for Premiere to know that a 24p stream could be constructed from that video file--and Canon is just assuming that consumer is too dumb to realize there is a difference

                       

                      If you search around, you'll find that there are some workflows that are able to create true 24p streams from these files, but none of them are particularly fun. The free ones often involve some legwork, and the pay-for ones, well, aren't free. I'm pretty sure you could deal with this in After Effects, if you have it, but if not, maybe check out the free solutions if you're feeling sassy.

                       

                      Good luck, and have fun!

                      • 8. Re: Importing "24p Cinema" footage from Canon AVCHD camera ?
                        Senhor Barriga Level 1

                        Hi Colin,

                         

                        Thanks for the help and tips !

                         

                        >and Canon is just assuming that consumer is too dumb to realize there is a

                        difference..

                         

                        Yes, definitely !

                         

                        Thanks again,

                        SB