18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 22, 2010 7:02 PM by Colin Brougham

    CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?

    Colin Brougham Level 6

      I frequently use layered Photoshop docs in Premiere, without much incident. I'll use them both flattened and as individual layers; if I need to make a change, I use Ctrl+E to open the image in PS, edit it, save, and it updates in the Premiere timeline. At least, that's how it worked in CS4, though I'd ocassionally and inexplicably have to Alt+Tab back and forth between PS and PPro once or twice in order to make the update "take."

       

      Well, with CS5, it seems to be worse. After updating a PSD and returning to PPro, there is no visible change to the image in the Program Monitor. However, if I scrub or playback the sequence, the changes suddenly appear. Once I stop either activity, the original, non-edited version reappears. No amount of Alt+Tabbing seems to make the changes stick. I've found that if I sometimes open a different sequence, the image finally updates in "pause mode" but it's sort of hit-or-miss, too.

       

      I seem to be noticing this more with PSD imported as individual layers, but I don't think it's specific to that particular import method. Anyone witnessing the same?

       

      I am running a GTX 480 with the hack in place, and (apparently) the not-so-good current version of the nVidia drivers. Might this be a cause? I'll test out on my non-MPE workstation to see if there's a difference.

        • 1. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          OK, I'm calling it a bug. Tested on my laptop (not hardware MPE enabled), and I have the same problem. If I import a layered PSD using either the Individual Layers or Sequence option, any changes I make to those layers in PS are not updated in PPro until I play the sequence back--and then they don't stick. The Program Monitor will revert back to the original appearance once paused.

           

          Can anyone else confirm this? I'll file a bug report, if so; otherwise, I'll explore some more to see if it's something I'm doing.

          • 2. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Sorry cant confirm: Premiere instantly updates changes in PS file

            • 3. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              Thanks for checking, Ann. Just to verify: you imported the PSD as either individual layers or as a sequence?

               

              Just for anyone's edification (maybe only my own), I created a quick screen recording of the misbehavior I'm seeing; check it out here.

              • 4. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Hi Colin,

                I did exactly as you in the example and no weird behaviour.

                I did notice you are getting a red line in the timeline as i am getting the yellow line when importing the psd file.

                • 5. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  Thanks for checking again, Ann. I would assume the red line is due to the fact that this was done on my laptop, which is not hardware MPE capable. I think my workstation (which is hardware MPE) shows the yellow line, but the problem persists there as well.

                   

                  Some bizarre observations:

                   

                  1. Premiere will update the change in the PSD, but only after a second change is made--and in that case, it makes the first change, not the second. So, let's say I move a layer 100 pixels to the left in PS; I save the image, go to Premiere, and there is no change unless the sequence plays back. I go back to PS, move the layer 100 pixels back to the right, save, and go to Premiere; Premiere's timeline updates, but the paused display moves the layer 100 pixels to the left, as in the first change! If I play the sequence, it shows the second change, but stopping playback reverts to the first change.
                  2. I found that if I loaded a particular layer (one that I was editing in PS) into the Source Monitor, changes were updated immediately in Premiere, as one would expect--BUT ONLY if I've first loaded the clip instance from the sequence into the SM (by double-clicking it in the sequence)!. If I try to load the source clip from the bin into the SM and make the edits However, if I loaded a different layer into the SM, I get the behavior as above.
                  3. A merged PSD doesn't suffer this; it updates correctly, immediately.

                   

                  Thanks again for testing it. I can't believe this is an isolated incident, as I've replicated it on two totally different machines, with two completely different projects, and two different PSD files. Anyone else?

                  • 6. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    Nobody else noticed this? Or at least willing to test? I'm ready to accept that this is local issue, but the fact that it happens on two distinctly different systems indicates to me that it's not.

                     

                    Thanks to anybody willing to test...

                    • 7. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Colin,

                       

                      If I was on CS5, I'd be glad to test, but I cannot help. As you know, I use PS PSD's constantly, but just cannot help here.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        C'mon, Bill.. get there, so I don't feel like such a loner

                         

                        You're gonna love it once you get here... no sense holding back

                        • 9. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Well, I am riding John T. Smith's coat tails, as it will mean a major workstation investment, a completely new OS and then the time to learn CS5. For me, some of the major "incentives" are with AE, but PrPro still is a siren song. All it takes is $.

                           

                          Sorry that I cannot participate in your test, as I'd love to do so. Now, if Harm would just bequeath one of his "hand-me-down" computers...

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                            Colin Brougham Level 6
                            All it takes is $.

                            Tell me about it. Though, having just built a new system for a touch over $2K, I'm pretty confident that a more-than-adequate system can be built for far less than that. It really all depends on your needs, but the fact is, the new technology will (generally speaking) make most of what you're doing that much faster, and that much more enjoyable.

                            Now, if Harm would just bequeath one of his "hand-me-down" computers...


                            Better hope the Hoover Dam is working at full capacity that day

                             

                            OK, back to my Belgian...

                            • 11. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              In my case, it is the Palo Verde Nuclear Plant, just west of Phoenix. I had a 0000 600KW cable run directly to my office, just in case Harm parts with one of his cast-offs. Now, I worry about cooling, but will run a duct from the wine cellar, right into the case. I do worry about the cooling of Palo Verde, however.

                               

                              Yes, a Chimay would be nice about now. Maybe I'll declare "ale-thirty" early today, and break out the thistle glasses...

                               

                              Good luck, and I will be watching closely, as I use PSD's all the time.

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                                akribie Level 2

                                Mercury engaged.

                                 

                                I've just tried using an 11,150x9000 pixel single-layer panorama PSD in CS5.  CTRL-E into PS and added a hue/saturation adjustment layer.  Took a second or two to update back in Premiere and needed re-rendering, but all worked as I would have expected.

                                 

                                Tried another composite (9150x3900 with 8 layers and an adjustment layer).  This time the timeline didn't update automatically.  Touching the Enter key and immediately cancelling the render showed the change.

                                 

                                Hope this helps.

                                 

                                Win 7 Pro, i7,  NVidia 285, 24G RAM

                                • 13. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                                  Thanks for testing; I really appreciate it.

                                  Tried another composite (9150x3900 with 8 layers and an adjustment layer).  This time the timeline didn't update automatically.  Touching the Enter key and immediately cancelling the render showed the change.

                                  So, just to make sure I'm reading you correctly: you had a multi-layered PSD that you had created with all layers before importing into PPro. This was imported as layers or as a sequence, not a merged document. When editing it in PS, the edited layers would not immediately update in PPro--only when playing back, scrubbing, or rendering (and cancelling). Sound about right?

                                   

                                  I've had this on both a hardware-enabled MPE system, and on a software-only MPE system; my hardware MPE system uses a different GPU than yours (GTX-480), so we're closer to ruling that out.

                                   

                                  Thank you again for testing! I just want to verify that it's not operator error before submitting a bug report, and I want to be able to best determine where the bug lies (i.e. is it with text layers or all layers, etc.).

                                  • 14. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                                    rickg1949 Level 1

                                    Premiere/Photoshop CS 5 seems to be playing together well for me.

                                     

                                    RG

                                    • 15. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                                      akribie Level 2

                                      I had imported as merged.

                                       

                                      I've tried again with the 8-layer image taking the following steps based on

                                      your workflow:

                                       

                                      1.  Import PSD into PPro project as sequence.

                                       

                                      2.  Open sequence timeline and view output in Program Monitor.

                                       

                                      3.  Open PSD in PhotoShop.

                                       

                                      4.  Turn off 4 layers to give obvious visual effect.

                                       

                                      5.  Save from PS.

                                       

                                      5.  See no change at all on Premiere timeline.

                                       

                                      This is exactly as I would expect because there is no link between PPro and

                                      PS when edits are done externally like this.  The footage would need to be

                                      re-imported or the project re-opened to register the changes.

                                       

                                      I also tried:

                                       

                                      1.  Select one layer in clip window.

                                       

                                      2.  Invoke Edit Original.

                                       

                                      3.  Turn on/off some layers to give obvious visual effect on image.

                                       

                                      4.  Save from PS.

                                       

                                      5.  No effect back in PPro even after re-rendering.

                                       

                                      6.  Deleting render files still did not force an update.

                                       

                                      This is not what I was expecting and is, I think, worth reporting as a

                                      potential bug.

                                       

                                      NOT A GOOD ANSWER !

                                       

                                      Because I don't often use import as sequence, I failed to realise that all layers are selected on by default in PPro, so turning off layers in PhotoShop doesn't give a useful test of this possible bug.  Please ignore the above results, which I've only left up because some read this via newsgroups.

                                       

                                      Out of time now.  I'll do a better test on Thursday.

                                       

                                       

                                      Message was edited by: akribie

                                      • 16. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                        Thanks so much again for testing this out; as you found, just turning off a layer's visibility isn't going to reveal the issue, as there is no connection between those parameters from Photoshop and Premiere. Just about anything else that manipulates the layer, however, should manifest in Premiere. There is always a "live link" between Photoshop and Premiere, in which I think timestamps of imported files are always checked to see if the currently-imported version matches the version saved on disk.

                                         

                                        This is certainly a bug, at least so far as my system is concerned. I just did a test between CS4 and CS5, and while CS4 behaves as would be expected, CS5 is erratic to say the least. I did a brief screen recording (early apologies for my nasal tone!) where you can see the problem: Premiere Pro CS5 broken PSD layers

                                         

                                        I hope that someone else is able to reproduce this, just so that I can verify that it's not just me (willing to accept that possibility, though ). Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide...

                                        • 17. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                                          jeremy d. Level 3

                                          Your Photoshop is CS4 or CS5?

                                          • 18. Re: CS5: Bug with Photoshop documents?
                                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                                            I have both. I doesn't matter which I use to create or edit the PSDs. For all practical purposes, consider it just in CS5. I did another video, showing just Premiere Pro CS5 and Photoshop CS5.

                                             

                                            Note that this only happens when a PSD is imported as a sequence, or as individual layers; a merged document functions correctly.