35 Replies Latest reply: Feb 20, 2011 1:06 PM by grant_gittus RSS

    BIG CS5 scaling problem

    creative matter Community Member

      Hi, Everyone,

       

      I recently switched over to CS5, and haven't had time to delve into all the new tools, yet, and am running into those little quirks that come  with software upgrades.

      Here is a BIGGIE I'm stuck on:

      In CS3, I could select an image or object and scale it down by selecting a corner of the image/object's frame and  dragging my mouse, so that it would scale down in the direction I wanted  it to. (For example, I would click on the bottom right corner of an object or image's frame and drag toward the top left corner, so the object/image would scale down, without ever moving from its original top left x/y position.)

       

      In CS5, when I try to do this, it scales based on the center of the  image, which doesn't work at all for what I'm trying to do.

       

      I have tried clicking on the nine-point diagram in the far left of the control panel to see if that changes the orientation the scaling is based on, but that has no effect.

       

      Anyone know  how I can adjust preferences (or whatever) so that I can scale as I used  to--simply and easily?


        • 1. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
          P Spier CommunityMVP

          I'm not aware of a difference in scaling behavior (but there might be something in one of the texniques I don't use). What tool are you using to scale?

          • 2. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
            Eugene Tyson CommunityMVP

            It works ok for me - shift ctrl and scale resizes just fine, any corner.

             

            Although I tried the scale tool and clicking the corners of the object to change the proxy location for scaling doesn't work anymore, bug?

            • 3. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
              creative matter Community Member

              Here's what I've done in the past:

               

              1. Use selection tool to select object/image.

               

              2. While holding down shift+option+command keys (to maintain proportions), click on corner of selected image/object and drag toward corner that I want to remain in place.

               

              (Thanks for trying to help with this, by the way!)

              • 4. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                creative matter Community Member

                Eugene,

                 

                I'm concerned that this is a bug. (I've been having some other buggy sort of behavior with the whole suite.)

                 

                Do you know if this is the sort of thing where you have to contact Adobe to try to get them to replace the software?

                 

                Thanks for the help!

                • 5. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                  P Spier CommunityMVP

                  creative matter wrote:

                   

                  Here's what I've done in the past:

                   

                  1. Use selection tool to select object/image.

                   

                  2. While holding down shift+option+command keys (to maintain proportions), click on corner of selected image/object and drag toward corner that I want to remain in place.

                   

                  (Thanks for trying to help with this, by the way!)

                  Try it without the Option Key...

                  • 6. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                    P Spier CommunityMVP

                    I don't see a problem withthe scale tool here...


                    • 7. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                      Eugene Tyson CommunityMVP

                      Funny that - I'll chcek it again on Monday.

                      • 8. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                        creative matter Community Member

                        Oh, that works! That works! Thank-you-thank-you-thank-you!!!

                         

                        Thanks to you both!

                        • 9. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                          P Spier CommunityMVP

                          Yeah, the Alt / Opt key force the scaling to be from the center in the same way it makes the frame and shape tools draw from the center.

                          • 10. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                            creative matter Community Member

                            Peter, do you know if this is new to CS4/CS5? I've always used the triple-key combo in the past.

                             

                            Thanks again for the easy (thank goodness!) fix. 

                            • 11. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                              P Spier CommunityMVP

                              It does seem to be a new feature. I never noticed in previous versions that the Alt/Opt key is simply ignored if you add it. It's never been necessary to include it.

                              • 12. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                grant_gittus Community Member

                                I'm still having issues with the scale tool. Mind you, I've just jumped from CS3 to CS5, so things may have been changed in CS4 and I missed it.

                                 

                                In CS3, if you click with the scale tool, that sets the origin point for the scaling. In CS5, it does nothing. A work-around is to option-click, which brings up the numerical dialog, then cancel - that still sets the origin point.  This might not seem like a big deal, but I spend a lot of time with one part of the image (say the back of a car) where I want it, then scaling from that point to locate the rest (say the front of the car) relative to the edge. OR scaling an ad with bleed from the start of the live type area to a new type area. Scaling from any of the corners or center is useless doing that.

                                 

                                I'm also finding that the shift-constrain seems to be flakey. Sometimes it works like normal, other times it will only allow vertical or horizontal scaling  - no proportional.

                                • 13. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                  P Spier CommunityMVP

                                  I don't use the scale tool, myself -- never got into it -- but in CS5 when you click it sets the reference point to the center of the frame. You can then use the tool to drag it where you want it. I don't know if that's any better for you than canceling the dialog.

                                  • 14. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                    grant_gittus Community Member

                                    Hi Peter - it doesn't work like that for me. Clicking anywere doesn't set the scaling point - that seems to be determined by the Reference Point in the Control Pallette. Ie - if that's on center, then it scales from center, if top left, then you scale from top left etc.

                                     

                                    In my case, I would be scaling from some arbitrary point in the object/image rather than a corner or center most of the time, and that seems to have been disabled in this version, when it worked fine before.

                                     

                                    Grant

                                    • 15. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                      P Spier CommunityMVP

                                      Hi Grant,

                                       

                                      As I said, I never really got into using the scale tool, so I went back and tried again, and I see you are correct about the proxy points, but heres what I found about using the tool:

                                       

                                       

                                      If an object is selected, switching to the tool immediately sets the scale reference point to the reference point in the transform proxy. If the Scaling Tool is active and you want to select a new object you can hold Ctrl (Cmd) to temporarily switch to the Selection Tool and when you release the scaling reference will be set to the proxy. If you move the Scaling Tool cursor over the reference point it should change to include a small arrow, at which point you can click and drag the reference anywhere you like, then release and click/drag elsewhere to scale relative to the new reference.

                                      • 16. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                        Eugene Tyson CommunityMVP

                                        That's true Peter, but in CS4 and CS3 you could ALT (Option) click a corner - which is faster. When you Alt click a corner now you get a dialog box and then you hit enter and then ther reference is set.

                                         

                                        Which is a little annoying.

                                        • 17. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                          P Spier CommunityMVP

                                          I'm not disputing the change in behavior or the annoyance factor, just exploring what can be done with what we have now.

                                          • 18. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                            Eugene Tyson CommunityMVP

                                            Indeed - just wanted to clarify the problem and how it used to work. There seems to be a quite a change in behaviours from CS4 to CS5 in regards to a lot of things. Why were they removed or made to behave differently is a different question.

                                             

                                            Well we can get by - it just takes a fraction of a second longer

                                            • 19. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                              P Spier CommunityMVP

                                              A lot of it may have to do with the new selection behaviors in general, and some unification of use of modifier keys across tools, if not applications.

                                              • 20. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                grant_gittus Community Member

                                                Thanks Peter - that works for me. On my (Mac) system, I don't need to hold down alt to move the transform point, just click on it and drag.

                                                 

                                                I should point out that the documentation for this (so far as I can tell) is under 'Transforming Objects". It's not mentioned in the Scaling objects section....

                                                 

                                                With further experimentation, it looks like the secret is to start dragging well away from the transform point, and start dragging at 45 degrees straight away if you want proportional scaling. If you drag straight up or straight down first, it seems to lock you into only horizontal or vertical scaling until you start over. Seems twitchier than the old CS3 tool, so I'll just have to get used to it.

                                                 

                                                Grant

                                                • 21. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                  P Spier CommunityMVP

                                                  Who said you needed the alt key to drag? If I said that it was a mistake.


                                                  • 22. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                    Henry.Fool Community Member

                                                    "Try it without the Option Key..."

                                                     

                                                    Thanks!!!! At last I know what's causing that horrible centre scaling which has been wrecking my head for months - now I just need to retrain my fingers :-)

                                                    • 23. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                      Lee_Hodgkinson Community Member

                                                      You need the "option key" in the combo to scale images in boxes so it still doesn't work for me.

                                                      • 24. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                        P Spier CommunityMVP

                                                        Lee,

                                                         

                                                        What tool are you using to scale, and what's the OS?

                                                        • 25. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                          Lee_Hodgkinson Community Member

                                                          Mac OS X 10.6

                                                           

                                                          In Quark and InDesign 2.0 - CS4 to scale on the fly using the Black Arrow, all you had to do is hold down, Shift-Option-Command (Windows Shift-Alt-Control) and grab the opposite corner or side on the bounding box and scale it and it would stick to the opposite side. For example if you grabbed the bottom left of the bounding box then it would stick to the top right of the bounding box.

                                                           

                                                          The scale tool works but only on the corners, not on the sides it will stretch or squeeze the image. I can't believe Adobe dropped this feature. I'm sure there must be a setting buried that has to be unchecked. This is just as annoying as Scrubby Zoom feature in Photoshop CS5.

                                                          • 26. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                            P Spier CommunityMVP

                                                            No. You never needed the Opt/Alt key to do that in ID. Leave it out and just use Cmd + Shift + Drag.

                                                            • 27. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                              Lee_Hodgkinson Community Member

                                                              What the heck.

                                                               

                                                              It wasn't working this morning, but now it is. Everytime I would scale it would work like just holding Shift where the images stay the same size in the box but the box scales with the rest.

                                                               

                                                              Weird.

                                                              • 28. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                gekgenoeg Community Member

                                                                this question is marked "answered", but in fact it is not.

                                                                 

                                                                the OP reported  that the possibility to click anywhere on the screen to set the origin for scaling, while using the scaling tool, is now missing in InDesignCS5

                                                                Still true. (See how it should work: in Illustrator CS5 it's still there.)

                                                                 

                                                                Only option left is to select the preset origin point (tiny circle&cross) and drag it across the screen.

                                                                That's annoying, cause it's so tiny.

                                                                Or to option click the screen where you want the origin to be, and than cancel the dialogue that appears.

                                                                (No logic in that, is there...)

                                                                 

                                                                I used this option 5 times a minute in CS4. And now it's gone :-(

                                                                Or is there a workaround? (He asked hopefully)

                                                                 

                                                                Eric

                                                                • 29. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                  P Spier CommunityMVP

                                                                  gekgenoeg wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  this question is marked "answered", but in fact it is not.

                                                                   

                                                                  In fact, in the opinion of the OP, and I would have to concur, it is.

                                                                   

                                                                  the OP reported  that the possibility to click anywhere on the screen to set the origin for scaling, while using the scaling tool, is now missing in InDesignCS5

                                                                  Still true. (See how it should work: in Illustrator CS5 it's still there.)

                                                                  Actually the OP never mentioned that as far as I can tell. It was a second user who joined the thread.

                                                                   

                                                                  Only option left is to select the preset origin point (tiny circle&cross) and drag it across the screen.

                                                                  That's annoying, cause it's so tiny.

                                                                  Or to option click the screen where you want the origin to be, and than cancel the dialogue that appears.

                                                                  (No logic in that, is there...)

                                                                   

                                                                  I used this option 5 times a minute in CS4. And now it's gone :-(

                                                                  Or is there a workaround? (He asked hopefully)

                                                                   

                                                                  Eric

                                                                  That's it. If you want to use the scale tool, that's the way it works as of the moment. There is no other workaround. Quite frankly, unless you are setting some random point as the center point for scaling, using the scaling tool seems a complete waste of time in my opinion when using the selection tool and modifier keys worsk just as well without having to set anything (or select the scale tool) as long as you want to scale toward or awy from one of the control handles.

                                                                  • 30. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                    gekgenoeg Community Member

                                                                    You are right, I was referring to Grant Gittus, who is not the OP. Sorry about that.

                                                                    So the original question was indeed answered.

                                                                     

                                                                    Grant said:

                                                                    In CS3, if you click with the scale tool, that sets the origin point for  the scaling. In CS5, it does nothing. A work-around is to option-click,  which brings up the numerical dialog, then cancel - that still sets the  origin point.

                                                                     

                                                                    As I understand you do not use the scaling tool yourself.

                                                                    I can assure you that I always found it a very useful tool, in addition to manipulating the handles and numeric options, with or without modifier keys...

                                                                     

                                                                    Let's say you use a portrait photo in a design, and the place of one of the eyes is important in the design. But the size of the photo does not feel right yet.

                                                                    It used to be possible to just press 's' (switch to scaling tool), click the eye (set origin), and drag the portrait to the desired size.

                                                                    'Boom'

                                                                     

                                                                    The same goes for the rotation tool by the way.

                                                                     

                                                                    I guess it depends on how you work, but what is a crucial option for me (manually setting the origin of a transformation) now requires a series of steps in InDesign, instead of just one click.

                                                                    In my particular way of working, that feels a bit like a waste of time. Frankly

                                                                     

                                                                    So I, like Grant and maybe others, was looking for a button to press or a box to tick, so that all would be like before, and I could go on scaling and rotating happily ever after.

                                                                     

                                                                    But I'm afraid that is not going to happen, right?

                                                                    • 31. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                      P Spier CommunityMVP

                                                                      As I said, "unless you are setting some random point as the center point for scaling," which is exactly what you need to do to keep your eye in position. I feel your pain, but there's nothing I can offer to help you out. File a feature request to get the old behavior reinstated in the next release: Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                                                                      • 32. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                        grant_gittus Community Member

                                                                        Thanks Gekgenoeg - that's exactly what I'm complaining about. I rarely scale from any of the corners. (and, personally I think the old option-click method was more elegant than having to click the scale point icon).

                                                                         

                                                                        As well as scaling images, I frequently use the old workflow for scaling whole layouts. For example, I am doing window decals for 50+ car dealerships. They have approved a master design, so now I need to adapt it to the different size windows. This is usually a matter of locating a given point (say the top left of the heading) at a given distance in from the top left of the window, then scaling from there so another crucial point (say bottom right corner of a logo) is inset the same distance from the bottom right corner of the window. Then bleed etc is adjusted to suit.

                                                                         

                                                                        That is not possible with corner/center scaling, or the distort tool.

                                                                         

                                                                        The new way seems to work on the assumption that everybody uses the full image, without cropping, all the time.  I don't.

                                                                         

                                                                        Peter - I will follow your suggestion and 'phone' this in. In my work, this is a major setback.

                                                                        • 33. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                          gekgenoeg Community Member

                                                                          Exactly...

                                                                          I cannot think of reason for leaving this basic functionality out, so maybe it was just overlooked in development.

                                                                           

                                                                          I'll follow Peter's suggestion as well.

                                                                          Fingers crossed

                                                                          • 34. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                            Paul Sorrick Adobe Employee

                                                                            Grant and gekgenoeg:

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks for reporting this issue. You are right, this was a change in CS5 behavior and we removed the ability to easily scale via an arbitrary reference point. The workaround of dragging the reference point or option/alt clicking, then cancelling the dialog are both difficult to use in a quick production setting. So, the good news is that we looked at the issue again and will restore the CS5 behavior in our next major version. Of course I can't comment when that will be, but you can rest assured that this problem will be fixed when it does.

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks again,

                                                                            Paul Sorrick

                                                                            InDesign Engineering

                                                                            • 35. Re: BIG CS5 scaling problem
                                                                              grant_gittus Community Member

                                                                              Hi Paul - thanks for taking my comments on board. I look forward to Cs6

                                                                               

                                                                              It's interesting to note that when I've 'complained' to colleagues of mine about the change, the general reaction is that they didn't realise the scaling tool could be used like that anyway...  To me, it's an essential function - it's possible that many users are unaware of it.

                                                                               

                                                                              Cheers

                                                                               

                                                                              Grant