16 Replies Latest reply on Jun 30, 2010 11:11 AM by digitlman

    Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4

    mtvedten Level 1

      I have a complicated projcet that include several After Effects compositions.

       

      In Media Encoder CS4 i took about three hours to render a MPEG2 file. (720x576, 5 min. long)

       

      I have now upgraded to CS5, but the same project, on the same machine now takes 6 hours to render with the exact same settings!!

       

      Only difference is that the After Effects files and the premiere file is saved as CS5 projects.

       

      WHY???

       

      My Machine: HP Z400, Windows 7 - 64 bit, 12GB RAM, Nvidia Quatro FX1800....

       

      Aslo: Before the XMP files where just very small files (7KB) , now they are over a 3MB!?!

        • 1. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Funny, I noticed a 4 x increase in performance with MPEG2 encoding with CS5, not a 2 x decrease.

           

          What are your source materials, sequence settings and export settings, which version of CS5 on what hardware and disk setup? Saying Z400 does not mean much when it can be a $ 950 or $ 11 K+ machine.

          • 2. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
            mtvedten Level 1

            I don't think it si just MPEG 2. It takes muck longer to export to F4V as well.

             

            On the large several large (5120x720) compositios in renderd by AfterEffects before it is encoded to MPEG2.

            But with the 64 bit, that should now be faster...

             

            The Premiere sequence in 1280x720 (one fourth of the overall compositions.) 25fps.

             

            Can there be something in AfterEffects that sets how to temporary render compositions before MPEGing?

             

            But then again - the FV4 project don't not contain any After Effects compositions, but only MPEG2 files.

             

             

            The Premiere and  After Effects project files is on a network drive, but the source material (PSDs, MXF video) is on a local drive (RAID1)

            Prosessor: Intel Xeon W3505 Dual 2.4Gz

             

            Export Settings: PAL, 720x576,  wide pixels, Progressive

            Min bitrate: 4Mbits/s

            Target: 8 Mbits/s

            Max: 12 Mbits /s

            VBR, 2 pass

            • 3. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
              thenoisystuff

               

              Export Settings: PAL, 720x576,  wide pixels, Progressive

              Min bitrate: 4Mbits/s

              Target: 8 Mbits/s

              Max: 12 Mbits /s

              VBR, 2 pass

               

               

              My Core i7950 took 4'18" to export a 3 layer 5'30" piece to the same spec.  How long are your sections?

              • 4. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                Harm Millaard Level 7
                On the large several large (5120x720) compositios in renderd by AfterEffects

                 

                Why use these weird dimenstions when you export to 1280 x 720?

                 

                The Premiere and  After Effects project files is on a network drive, but the source material (PSDs, MXF video) is on a local drive (RAID1)

                 

                That is a bad idea to use a network drive and a raid1 is equally bad.

                 

                Max: 12 Mbits /s

                 

                Another bad idea for MPEG2.

                 

                In short this is OE.

                • 5. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                  mtvedten Level 1

                  The reason for the wierd dimesions is that this video will play across 4 screens side by side.

                  So it is splitt into fours sections each 1280x720 that is encoded to MPEG2 files.

                   

                  These files are played simultaneously by an Alcorn McBride Video Binloop (hardware videoplayer) to each screen. It has a max bandwith of 15Mbits/s

                   

                  As for the project on the network drive, that need to be there to be part of the backup service.

                   

                  But this was just the same on the CS4 version so that has not changed.

                   

                  I have now started a export in a different macine (Quad core, 20GB RAM), to see if that is equally slow.

                  It too used about 3 hours on the CS4 versjon.

                  There I have transferd the settingsfile from the CS4 media encoder, so I know it uses the exact same settings on CS5.

                   

                  I noticed that Multi tasking was not seleted in After Effects, so I tured it on. But it does not seem to make any difference.

                  • 6. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                    digitlman Level 1

                    as a test just drop a single video file into premiere and encode it  and see how fast it goes. this will

                    remove the variable of all the dynamically linked afx projects. it sounds like you might have an issue with your after effects multiframe rendering settings,

                    make sure you have it enabled and enough ram allocated for each cpu. also maybe your afx comp was pre-rendered? and it lost the pre-rendering in the cs5 conversion?

                    • 7. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                      mtvedten Level 1

                      Actually I did render out a Flash F4V file from the four MPEG2 files that make up the sequence.

                       

                      In CS5 that took 8 minutes compared to 22 in CS4, so yes i think it is an After Effect issue.

                       

                      By the way: the Metadata files CS5 makes almost double the file size of the F4V!! So I had to delete them and then export again to get a reasonable size. I will make a new thread on this subject...)

                       

                      The files are not pre-renderd. They can't be, because I keep switching languages on the text. This Video is to be made in 23 languages, four files for each language, so  when it takes 6 hours to make just one file of 92 you see why I need to get the rendering time down...

                       

                      When After Effects Renders in the background the CPUs only use about 70 - 80% so it does not seem to be running om max.

                      I have tried to adjust the Memory allocations. But with only two cores and 3GB each these is still a lot of RAM available.

                       

                      But still CS4 did it twice as fast!!!??!!?

                      • 8. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                        mtvedten Level 1

                        I noticed when adjusting the multi threading options in After Effects that is makes more instances of AfterFX.exe in the task manager as you ad CPUs.

                        But when I render the Premeire sequence containg After Effects comps in Media Encoder, it only show one AfterFX.exe process.

                         

                        So does that mean that when you render an After Effects comp inside a Premiere project in Media Encoder, it only use one process and CPU?

                        And do not use the multi threating options I have set in After Effects preferences??

                         

                        Morten

                        • 9. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                          mtvedten Level 1

                          As a test I ran the same project file (a SC4 version) troug both the SC5 Media Encoder and the CS4 media Encoder.

                           

                          CS5 did in in 6 hours 47 minutes.

                          CS4 did it in 2 hours 39 minutes!

                           

                           

                          I can't see how any settings should make that much differense.

                           

                          But I do notice that CS5 start three AdobeQTserver.exe in Task Manager. CS4 dont use these.

                          Can they be a problem with a new version of QT that just came out?

                           

                          Is there a way to save a CS5 project back to CS4??

                          • 10. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            Is there a way to save a CS5 project back to CS4??

                             

                            Directly - not usually. One user reported actually being able to Open, or maybe Import, a CS5 Project into CS4, but that is usually NOT the case. You might want to try that with your Project (try both Open, and Import), just in case that one report signals a change with backward compatibility, though I'd not hold my breath.

                             

                            The closest that one can usually do is to Export as an intermediate file from CS5, and then Import that into CS4. If you do this, edit loosely in CS5, and I'd also not use any Transitions, as one can end up with no Handles, with the Exported file.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                             

                            PS - I was able to Open a couple of Encore CS3 Projects into EncoreDVD 2.0, and that was not what I had expected. Lost a very few things, but actually got about 95% to function perfectly. I anticipated a 100% failure rate. Does not apply to your case, but is just an X-version observation on another Adobe program.

                            • 11. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                              thenoisystuff Level 1

                              It may not be relevant and no help at all but I recently trialed Wild FX Ppro from Wild Form.  http://www.wildform.com/products/wildfx. I did so because I was looking for an interim solution for not being able to run Boris Graffiti in CS5.

                               

                              Wild Form say that, from version 7.4 onwards, QT messes up their encoding algorithms making the software unusable when exporting unless you went back to an earlier version of QT.  They reckon Apple have done something radically different to the QT codec to make it so.

                               

                              It's a wild card but could something similar be happening to CS5?

                              • 12. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                For most, it seems that QT 7.6.6 has worked fine (unlike the earlier 7.6.x versions), but I have been hanging onto 7.5.5, as that is MY "last known good" version. A few 7.6.6 users have reported some limited issues with Adobe products. Also, many of the 7.4.x versions seemed to be death with Adobe programs, and the previous known good was 7.3.5.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                                  thenoisystuff Level 1

                                  many of the 7.4.x versions seemed to be death with Adobe programs

                                   

                                  Bill...care to elaborate?

                                  • 14. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    IIRC the exact version numbers, QT 7.4.2 and 7.4.3 just crashed Premiere (and often PrE), and then 7.5.5 was introduced, and that seemed to work well for all users, and for me. 7.6.3 and 7.6.4 seemed to have many of the issues that the 7.4.x series did, but many found 7.6.6 to be good. Still, some Adobe users have had issues with 7.6.6, but found that 7.5.5 got things working.

                                     

                                    I've asked about the QT versions with CS5, as it seems that Adobe requires a 7.6.x version for QT Export in CS5. Many editors on PC's just flat will not install QT Player, or use any QT footage. I know at least three of those on this forum. I need it, so try to keep the good versions, and do NOT allow it to update. I will not update my iTunes on the laptop, as I do not want to have my QT 7.5.5 replaced, until I do it manually.

                                     

                                    Hope that helps, but remember that most is anecdotal in nature. I never used any 7.4.x versions, staying with 7.3.5 and then moving to 7.5.5. I have had zero issues with either of those.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                                      mtvedten Level 1

                                      Well I just did a very simple test...

                                       

                                      Only plain video inside a 16 sec After Effect CS4 comp.

                                       

                                      That Comp was inserted into a Premire Sequence (CS4)

                                       

                                      Media Encoder CS4 renders it to MPEG2 (Default preset) in 1min. 24 sec.

                                      Media Encoder CS5 renderes it at 2 min 30 sec!!

                                       

                                      No effects, no fancy animation. Just plain video!

                                       

                                      Then I renderd a H.264 (Apple TV settings on both).

                                      Then CS5 came out a bit faster!

                                       

                                      I am now tryoung to encode my big project in H.264 to see what happes then.

                                       

                                      Could it be the MPEG encoder?

                                      I notice the CS5 encoded MPEG2 files are smaller then CS4's, even if the settings are the same.

                                      • 16. Re: Why is CS5 Encoder twice as slow as CS4
                                        digitlman Level 1
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                                        mtvedten wrote:

                                         

                                        Well I just did a very simple test...

                                         

                                        Only plain video inside a 16 sec After Effect CS4 comp.

                                         

                                        That Comp was inserted into a Premire Sequence (CS4)

                                         

                                        Media Encoder CS4 renders it to MPEG2 (Default preset) in 1min. 24 sec.

                                        Media Encoder CS5 renderes it at 2 min 30 sec!!

                                         

                                        No effects, no fancy animation. Just plain video!

                                         

                                        Then I renderd a H.264 (Apple TV settings on both).

                                        Then CS5 came out a bit faster!

                                         

                                        I am now tryoung to encode my big project in H.264 to see what happes then.

                                         

                                        Could it be the MPEG encoder?

                                        I notice the CS5 encoded MPEG2 files are smaller then CS4's, even if the settings are the same.

                                         

                                        interesting, what exactly is the size difference? it could be slightly different for header info but bitrates are standard, 1 minute @ 5mbit CBR should be the same on any encoder. Oh wait, i just realized you said default preset, that is VBR and you can get different results. I think revolves around your multiprocessor settings most likely. I have 8 cpu's so I'm not sure how many you have and what your settings are, but i notice you are only doing a 16 second clip, that is probably too short to test with. you might want to turn OFF multi frame rendering as i think it takes longer to get the seperate copies of after effects up and running then it would take to render it on a single core. Try that, then i would try with all your cores enabled doing a 10 minute or so video clip which will allow the cores to get up and running. Also have you tried putting the video clip in AFX CS5 and then render it? Maybe it has something to do with the AFX CS4 project.