33 Replies Latest reply on Sep 21, 2010 6:48 PM by the_wine_snob

    Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!

    davdav99 Level 1

      Hi,

       

      I have used Premiere Pro 6.0 quite extensively over the years and have recently moved to Premiere Pro CS5.

       

      With Premiere Pro 6.0 I could move/drag clips on the time-line and their linked audio would move with them.  If I moved the video clip to another video track, say, above an existing clip, the audio would also move to a free audio track and not automically write over any existing audio.  This would allow me to easily reorder clips on the timeline by simply moving them around and using other video tracks as temporary storage locations... and not lose or write over any other existing audio.

       

      However in Premiere Pro CS5 if I do the same thing, the video will move to the other video track I move it to, but the audio will stay in the say audio track and will write-over any existing audio when the mouse button is released.  The only way around this I can find in the manual is to: (1) drag the video to the other video track, and (2) press and hold the <SHIFT> key, whilst, (3) draging the linked audio to another audio track to avoid existing audio from being over-written.

       

      My question:  Is there a configuation I can set in CS5 to allow moving/draging of clips to work like in Premiere Pro 6.0?  I have already messed up multiple times in CS5 by inadvertently over-writing existing audio.

       

      Your expert advice and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

       

      THANKS IN ADVANCE.

        • 1. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          With CS4, Adobe added the ability to Target multiple Tracks. This means that you need to Target the Tracks, to which you will be moving your Clips. If you have muxed Audio and Video, you will want to Target one Video and one Audio Track, and then the Video & Audio should move and place together, as before.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
            davdav99 Level 1

            I tried this and it doesn't work for me.  I target the tracks by clicking and highlighting them, and then drag the video to one of the video tracks... but the audio stays on the same track as it started on - unless I follow the procedure I state in my first post by holding down <shift>.

             

            Do you have any other solutions or perhaps lead me through the steps to achieve what you say?  Remember that I want to be able to re-arrange the clips on the timeline just by draging them around and not lose (or over-write) any of the existing audio.

             

            Thanks in anticipation.

            • 3. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
              Jim_Simon Level 8
              the audio stays on the same track as it started on

               

              That is by design; and for good reason.

              • 4. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                davdav99 Level 1

                Jim,

                 

                I really don't understand your response... it's not very helpful to my query.

                 

                Remember that I want to be able to re-arrange the clips on the timeline just by draging them around and not lose (or over-write) any of the existing audio.

                 

                Does anyone here have advice on how to do this??

                 

                Thanks in anticipation.

                • 5. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Read up on targeting tracks, or locking tracks. The F1 key can do wonders.

                  • 6. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                    davdav99 Level 1

                    Harm,

                     

                    Your reply is not helpful.  Just so you know, I have read through the manual extensively and could not find an answer for my question.  AND that's why I brought my question here.

                     

                    Perhaps I missed something in the manual.  Would you mind re-reading my question and helping me if it is so easy?!

                     

                    This has been frustrating for me for the last three months and I thought I would come to this forum for some expert advice.  So far I have been told that CS5 is designed to be like this (does not answer my question), and now you tell me to look up the manual (again does not answer my question).

                     

                    I'm amazed by responses that miss the question entirely and give helpful suggestions like that!

                    • 7. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                      Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I think the answer is "no," there is no setup that lets you go back to the way track targetting worked before CS4 (when it changed).  I am still using CS3, and I have no wisdom on how to get up to speed on the new method.  But my suggestion is, once you are convinced that there is no way to go back, to learn about the new method in general - even applications you don't think you will use, and you'll find the best method for you.

                       

                      I cannot find the tutorial (was it a tutorial, or just a demonstration on YouTube?) that explained this pretty well.

                       

                      It is not the following tutorial, which just deals with going from source window to timeline, but the issues are similar.

                       

                      http://tv.adobe.com/watch/digital-video/mapping-source-tracks-to-target-tracks/

                      • 8. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                        jeremy d. Level 3
                        I'm amazed by responses that miss the question entirely and give helpful suggestions like that!

                         

                        Patience.

                         

                        Yes, read the User Guide. It explains how the timeline tracks are used. The behavior seems illogical to you rght now, but it makes sense.

                         

                        While the audio and video are still linked, grab the audio first, drag it down to another track -- this might create a new track, depending on the audio format -- and then move the video.

                        • 9. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                          Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                          function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                          davdav99 wrote:

                           

                          However in Premiere Pro CS5 if I do the same thing, the video will move to the other video track I move it to, but the audio will stay in the say audio track and will write-over any existing audio when the mouse button is released.  The only way around this I can find in the manual is to: (1) drag the video to the other video track, and (2) press and hold the <SHIFT> key, whilst, (3) draging the linked audio to another audio track to avoid existing audio from being over-written.

                           

                          My question:  Is there a configuation I can set in CS5 to allow moving/draging of clips to work like in Premiere Pro 6.0?  I have already messed up multiple times in CS5 by inadvertently over-writing existing audio.

                           

                           

                          Unfortunately this his how ist done now.

                          The workaround is indead holding SHIFT and dragging.

                          There is no way to set it as it was in 6.0.

                          You will get used to it over time, we all had to.

                          • 10. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                            davdav99 Level 1

                            Thanks Stan, Jeremy, and especially Ann.  Your responses have been very helpful.

                            • 11. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                              LanceWis1 Level 1

                              If Adobe's goal is to create a better method and teach it to video editors who have never edited before, they MIGHT have a better solution here.  but if the goal is to convince professional editors coming from other proven applications to use Premier, then not being able to easily move audio from track to track is probably a mistake.

                              • 12. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                shooternz Level 6

                                Moving audio from track to track is easy.

                                 

                                Not sure why you would suggest any professional may struggle with it at all.

                                • 13. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Yes, I have never had any issues with moving Audio about, and have had some Projects with 28 Audio Tracks. Maybe I have just been on PrPro so long that I have forgotten other ways, but did migrate from AVID Liquid many years back.

                                   

                                  What is missing in PrPro?

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                    davdav99 Level 1

                                    Lance I agree with you.  Further it is not just people who have moved from other

                                    editing applications, it is also those people who have moved from Premiere to Premiere (ie me from v6.0 to

                                    CS5)

                                    • 15. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                      davdav99 Level 1

                                      "Moving audio from track to track is easy."

                                       

                                      Shooternz and Bill,

                                       

                                      You need to re-read the question in the first post.  This thread is not about simply moving audio from track to track.

                                      • 16. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                        davdav99 wrote:

                                         

                                        "Moving audio from track to track is easy."

                                         

                                        Shooternz and Bill,

                                         

                                        You need to re-read the question in the first post.  This thread is not about simply moving audio from track to track.

                                         

                                        They were responding to Lance who said:

                                         

                                        then not being able to easily move audio from track to track is probably a mistake.

                                         

                                        Their responses addressed his point and were not intended to address your OP.

                                         

                                        -Jeff

                                        • 17. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                          davdav99 Level 1

                                          Jeff said...

                                          "They were responding to Lance who said:

                                           

                                          Their responses addressed his point and were not intended to address your OP."

                                           

                                          Yes, but Lance was responding to the thread discussion, and not simply about moving audio tracks around.

                                          One needs to read the comments in context.

                                           

                                          Perhaps you can give me tips on how to include quotes using this forum.  I haven't worked it out.

                                          • 18. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                            I parsed Lance's comments differently than you did.  Probably the same for Bill and shooternz.  And if you spend any time here, you'll find that not every post from every user is bang on topic.

                                             

                                            And just to clarify for me: are you saying that (1) using the Shift key isn't easy, and/or (2) dragging linked clips by the audio portion instead of the video portion so you don't have to use the Shift key isn't easy?

                                             

                                            Re: quoting.  Click on the "quote bubble" icon in the full editor view of the reply box to quote the entire post.  Click on the double arrows to the right of the smiley icon to make a "quote background" become available, into which you can paste or type any text you want.

                                             

                                            -Jeff

                                            • 19. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                              davdav99 Level 1
                                              function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                              And just to clarify for me: are you saying that (1) using the Shift key isn't easy, and/or (2) dragging linked clips by the audio portion instead of the video portion so you don't have to use the Shift key isn't easy?

                                               

                                              Jeff

                                               

                                              Just to clarify for you as I said previously, "I want to be able to re-arrange the clips on the timeline just by draging them around and not lose (or over-write) any of the existing audio."  Just as I did in Premiere Pro (V6.0).

                                               

                                              Now with CS5 it seems that I have to perform a double-handed-move to perform the same manouver to avoid accidentally losing the audio.

                                              • 20. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                Just to clarify for you as I said previously, "I want to be able to re-arrange the clips on the timeline just by draging them around and not lose (or over-write) any of the existing audio."  Just as I did in Premiere Pro (V6.0).

                                                 

                                                Now with CS5 it seems that I have to perform a double-handed-move to perform the same manouver to avoid accidentally losing the audio.

                                                 

                                                That's correct; this is the only way to move both portions of a linked clip to different tracks in CS5. I can understand your frustration with this, particularly if you're accustomed to another mode of operation, but it is not without its logic. The logic is that the stacking order of video matters (e.g. higher tracks take precedence) whereas the stacking order of audio does not. In other words, you may be comping together multiple video clips, but the likelihood of needing all of the audio portions from those clips is low. Additionally, reorganizing clips in a sequence can be achieved far more efficiently than by bouncing from track to track.

                                                 

                                                If I understand what you want to accomplish--a reorganization/reordering of clips in your sequence--there is a simple way to achieve this. Assuming you clips A, B, and C in that order (A-B-C) and you want B before A, click and drag clip B to the point you want it to start, hold down Control and Alt, and then let go of the mouse button. You will perform a shuffle edit, maintaining video/audio links, and put the clips in a different order. You can do this with one clip or multiple clips, either in a contiguous or non-contiguous selection.

                                                 

                                                If this is what you want to do, you'll quickly see how much more efficient this is than moving clips to different tracks and sliding them around. However, if I've missed the boat, please advise.

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                  davdav99 Level 1

                                                  Colin,

                                                   

                                                  Thanks a million.  This really helps.  I am still a little frustrated as it feels safer moving the clips the old way, however this is something I will need to get used to.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks again!!

                                                  • 22. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                    You're welcome. I realize it's not a magic bullet, but I think you'll find it will greatly accelerate your work in a sequence.

                                                     

                                                    Here's a little more detail in the Help documents, if you need it: Rearrange clips in a Timeline panel

                                                     

                                                    it feels safer moving the clips the old way...

                                                     

                                                    That's what Ctrl+Z is for

                                                    • 23. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                      LanceWis1 Level 1

                                                      I have had much better luck moving audio tracks and am ready to take back my remarks about (CS4) Prem. Pro.

                                                      But I am having real difficulty now just selecting and editing any audio track in my program timeline other than A-1.  In the other tracks, that only thing I can change are the audio levels using existing key frames.  But I cannot add new keyframes, change the in and out points of the edit, etc.  In short, I cannot select the clips on 2 tracks at all. 

                                                      (I did exercise an option to change a stereo track to mono, although I read something later that suggested I could not do that after the sequence was begun.)

                                                      But I did not change that option for the mono narration track I am trying to edit.  That just won't let me select and change any clips in the timeline.

                                                      Any clues would be greatly appreciated.

                                                      sincerely,

                                                      LanceW

                                                      • 24. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                        Lance,

                                                         

                                                        Are you saying that when you Select an Audio Clip on any other Audio Track, besides A-Track 1, and open your Effects Control Panel, you cannot add any Keyframes to Volume?

                                                         

                                                        Can you add any Audio Effects (must match channel-count) to those same Clips?

                                                         

                                                        Good luck,

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 25. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                          LanceWis1 Level 1

                                                          Well, I just went into effects control for the first time. I could open the audio component , click volume/level.  Then I clicked the keyframe button and a little triangle appeared on a red vertical line next to the clip name.  I am not sure what it meant.  I usually add the audio key frames for level-setting directly in the timeline if I can.

                                                          I can only get into an A-1 or A-2 clip, and then only by clicking on the video portion of the clip first.  I cannot select -- leave alone edit, unlink, send to effects, send to source monitor, etc.,  -- ANY audio-only clips or audio portions of video on their own.

                                                          Thanks,

                                                          Lance

                                                          • 26. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                            Are the other tracks locked? They are if there are hash marks/diagonal lines covering the track. That's the only way I can imagine you would not be able to manipulate a clip/track...

                                                            • 27. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                              Here is a look at Locked Tracks:

                                                              Audio_Track_Headers_01.jpg

                                                              Hope that helps, and good luck,

                                                               

                                                              Hunt

                                                              • 28. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                                LanceWis1 Level 1

                                                                No they are not locked.  But let me ask you this please:  what are the rectangles to the left of each track all the way to the side on the panel?  The ones that have the same height as the track itself but all have the same width and only occasionally text.  Sometimes one  of these (at least) looks "highlighted."  It is lighter in color and it displays "A-1."  I can't figure out how I can turn them on or off, so I don't know if they have any bearing on my other problems.

                                                                Do you remember off hand where you can switch a track from stereo to mono for each track, after editing for a while in this sequence-timeline?  I want to try some things to see what they do. Can I just open a new timeline sequence and copy/paste?  I think I will try that.

                                                                Is there another way to preserve any part of my project and open a new project to recover what I have edited but bring it up with new (default) tracks.

                                                                The prem.pro gave me 2 video and 3 audio tracks by default (something like that).  How important is it to maintain these defaults?  I added some and then deleted at least 2 because I just didn't have enough room on my 18" laptop screen. 

                                                                • 29. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                  Those are the Track Headers, and the color/density change signifies that the Track is Targeted. You are talking about the area that has the Track Name and several icons in it, right?

                                                                   

                                                                  While you were posting the above, I was uploading a view of PrPro 2.0's Audio Tracks with a lot of things highlighted.

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                  • 30. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                    The A-1/V-1 items are the track source selectors.  They determine which tracks will get the audio/video from the Source Monitor when you do an insert or overlay edit from there.

                                                                     

                                                                    -Jeff

                                                                    • 31. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                                      LanceWis1 Level 1

                                                                      to start clean, I created a new project opened with default audio tracks.

                                                                      then I followed the steps described in the screen saves below.

                                                                      Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong here, or if my CS4 app has a problem?

                                                                      or if I am asking Premier to do something it was not designed to do?

                                                                      thanks much,

                                                                      Lance

                                                                       

                                                                      no control of audio_steps 1-2.jpgno control of audio_steps 3-4.jpg

                                                                      • 32. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                        You have track keyframes enabled; turn them off.

                                                                         

                                                                        track-keyframes.png

                                                                         

                                                                        If your new sequences are always like this, you've set a particular settings in the preferences that you should probably disable:

                                                                         

                                                                        track-keyframes-2.png

                                                                        • 33. Re: Moving Clips - and how not to lose the audio? Help needed!
                                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                          To embellish a bit on Colin's comments. With Volume, one can have two types of Keyframes: Clip Keyframes (what I think you want), and then Track Keyframes. The latter are very useful, and can be created and set from Audio Mixer (or manually), but they are different. The former are Keyframes that are attached to the Clip, and will follow it everywhere. The latter are for the Track, and regardless of how you move Clips, replace Clips, or Delete Clips, they remain, unchanged, and are basically automation for the Audio Mixer. I use the latter quite often, but NEVER until I have done my final edit. All Clips must remain, un-moved, and THEN I do the Track Keyframes with Audio Mixer. Just want you to understand how those two types of Keyframes differ.

                                                                           

                                                                          Good luck,

                                                                           

                                                                          Hunt