15 Replies Latest reply on Jul 13, 2010 7:44 AM by Scott Chichelli

    Mercury Engine and a GTX 285

    Themis_37 Level 1

      Ok, anyone who could pose some info on this is more than welcome :-) I have a Quad core 9400 system with 4GBs of DDR3 RAM, Win7 x64 installed and Premiere CS5. I'm seriously thinking the purchase of an MSI GTX 285 graphics card at 1GB based on what I read about the Nvidia cards and the Mercury Engine. I've gone through the benchmark Mr Milaard was kind enough to create and provide, also did it for my workstation but I haven't been able to make out much. So my question is: how much will my system benefit from such a hardware addition? I'm mainly working with Full HD H.264 material (mp4 files). Will I be able to play realtime, say, a couple or three PiP tracks? Do I need more RAM (I was considering 8 GBs DDR3) or will my quad core still be the "bottleneck" of all this? In general, does such a hardware addition add enough to my existing horsepower so that the 390 euros will not go down the drain or is it better to go for, say, an I7 980 Extreme with maybe a graphics card with more cudas?

       

      Thanks a lot in advance

        • 1. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          We are in the last phase of testing the new PPBM CS5 benchmark, which I expect will be available in about two weeks. With some luck the results page will have about 10 - 15 different machines to start with, so at least you have an inkling of how your system performs.

           

          Keep in mind that the 285 is no longer sold. It has been discontinued and if you can still find it, you are buying a gereneration old technology. A better choice is the 470.

           

          If you consider upgrading from a quad core to an i7, you will probably need a new mobo and new RAM as well.

           

          Testing has shown that going from 6 to 12 GB on an i7 system can entail a 30% performance gain with MPEG2-DVD encoding.

          • 2. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
            Themis_37 Level 1

            By your existing experience, could you at least tell me if and how much will my system benefit from the addition of a GTX 250 and a 470, respectively?

            • 3. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              The 470 is about twice as fast as the 285. How much your system will profit benefit depends on the nature of your projects.

              • 4. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                Themis_37 Level 1

                Look at my first post. As I said, I'm mainly working with Full HD H.264 material, no complex graphics, basic After Effects stuff, and often enough motion PiP work. How much will I benefit from a 285 and a 470, respectively. Is it worth the money?

                • 5. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                  Themis_37 Level 1

                  The sound of silence... Should I guess this is the standard attitude towards all who look for info on "non-Adobe-certified" graphics cards?

                  • 6. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Reread #3.

                     

                    Your original post tells nothing about the nature of your projects to indicate to what degree you will profit.

                    • 7. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                      Themis_37 Level 1

                      Mentioning Full HD material, H.264 compression, with basic After Effects stuff and motion PiP work (at Full HD, of course) is your idea of "telling nothing about the nature of my projects"? I don't know how more specific can one be about what he does. Don't bother, Mr Millaard. I'll find another way to answer my questions.

                      • 8. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Only missing is:

                         

                        1. How many tracks

                        2. Which effects for what duration

                        3. Which transitions for what duration

                        4. Proportion of CUDA enabled versus non-CUDA enabled effects and transitions

                        5. How often is rendering used

                        6. What is the scaling on export

                        7. What is the length of the timeline

                        8. How many sequences

                        9....

                        .

                        .

                        .

                        .

                        99. External monitor use for color grading and connection

                         

                        etc.

                         

                        You are asking an impossible question that can not be answered by others based on your skimpy info.

                         

                        If you feel you are treated unfairly, go ahead.

                        • 9. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                          Themis_37 Level 1

                          I was not aware I'd have to spend an entire day on being extremely analytical about a simple project just to get an idea of whether a graphics card would benefit my work. Well, sir, I have neither the time or the will to do so. I'm pretty sure your experience with different systems allows you to have a more than basic idea of whether a system like mine would benefit or not. Nobody asked you for a detailed description or a performance chart comparison and of course nobody would sue you if you said a plain "yes" or a "no" on the system benefit issue. Just like a car mechanic knows that higher octane gasoline can make a car perform better, I'm sure you know whether there's a benefit or not in my case, big or small. It's plain work. Adobe and Nvidia used ordinary HD material (with the exception of 4K, of course) to show how much better systems perform. That's what was asked from you, too. But no more. Thank God for the rest of the internet and other Premiere users.

                          • 10. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            There are (my definition) two types of people who answer questions in this forum

                             

                            A Type1 "by guess and by golly" person will look at a pickup truck and a front loader, and say "sure, you can carry that scoop load home in your truck"

                             

                            A Type2 "as precise as possible" person will measure the length x width x depth to determine the cubic capacity, ask about the load rating of the particular model, and then look up the weight of a one yard scoop of potting soil -vs- gravel... and only then say "yes, that truck will carry that load without damage"

                             

                            I don't know that Adobe has ever published benchmarks for Premiere Pro and/or Encore... and certainly not for CS5 that is still very new

                             

                            If you will look upstream in this message, Harm said that a benchmark for CS5 is being designed

                             

                            Until the CS5 benchmark is released and test results begin to be submitted, there is no way for ANYONE to give a firm answer about CS5 performance with any particular hardware

                             

                            The "not yet officially supported" GTX 470 is faster than the GTX 285... but real world results may, or may NOT be twice as fast as the 285... no one will know that until Adobe releases a (dot) update to officially support the GTX 470... such as the recent 5.0.1 update that was aimed specifically at the GTX 285

                             

                            When the CS5 benchmark is released... YOU will have the chance to run the benchmark and send in results

                             

                            Until the CS5 benchmark has been out long enough for a variety of users to run it... on a variety of computer configurations... someone who is "as precise as possible" is only going to be able to say that the 470 is faster than the 285

                            • 11. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                              Themis_37 Level 1

                              John T Smith wrote:


                               

                              Until the CS5 benchmark has been out long enough for a variety of users to run it... on a variety of computer configurations... someone who is "as precise as possible" is only going to be able to say that the 470 is faster than the 285

                              I wonder if either you, Mr Smith, or Mr Millaard ever reads anything but the last post, much more read them correctly. Sir, what I originally asked, up from my first post, was whether my system - more than adequately described - would benefit from an Nvidia Cuda card., the GTX 285, in particular. I never asked for a comparison chart, never asked for any sort of detailed analysis and I definitely did NOT ask for a comparison of the 285 vs 470. Again, I believe people who have experience on the matter can answer a simple question, regarding specific video material and compression, specific CPU and RAM and specific graphics card. I'm sure by now, this conversation has become more of an exhausting, meaningless procedure for all of us - for me it's like that for sure. I suggest we leave it here. Thanks for trying to be "as precise as possible" despite the fact that I never asked for anything like that. As it turns out, personal testing is the only way to get a proper answer, provided one has access to it. As it turns out I do, so I'll go that way. Again, thanks.

                              • 12. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                                Jeff Bellune Level 5

                                Themis_37,

                                 

                                H.264, AVCHD, and other flavors of MPEG4 are much more CPU-intensive than GPU-intensive.  That means unless your CPU can easily handle decoding the H.264 material, a supported CUDA card won't do you much good.  Decoding is still a CPU process in Pr; the GPU goodness is for playback after decoding, and for effects.

                                 

                                I would consider one or more i7 980s to be optimal.

                                 

                                -Jeff

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                  my my undies in a bundle eh?

                                   

                                  here are some facts (general)

                                   

                                  your system is very weak a q9400?

                                  the last thing i would be worried over is video card.

                                  however any MPE video card is better than none

                                  what i consider minimal

                                   

                                  X58 930 preferably overclocked ( a 980x is really prefered)

                                  12 gig ram (prefered DDR3 1600 CL8)

                                  470 video card

                                   

                                   

                                  i doubt with your system you could evn tell the difference with a 285 vs 470

                                  its too slow and not enough ram.

                                   

                                  (hey you asked for a stright forward answer!)

                                  Scott

                                  ADK

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                                    Themis_37 Level 1

                                    Thank you, thank you soo much, Jeff and Scott :-) Well, after sooo many posts, finally two people who could provide some useful info, other than statistic facts. Scott, if anyone appreciates a straight forward answer, it's me, so your reply, as well as Jeff's is more than welcome and helpful. I was pretty sure the CPU would be an issue anyway, regardless of the graphics card, but I needed to cross-check with other users. The thing is, Premiere is not even my main editing app, but since it can also be installed on a Mac, I considered it as an alternative option, hearing what it can do with a Cuda card. Again, your help is much appreciated and considered :-)  Thanks

                                    • 15. Re: Mercury Engine and a GTX 285
                                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                      glad i could help

                                      Mac has severe issues with load balancing multithreading.

                                      last thing you want to buy.

                                       

                                      stick with PC!

                                       

                                      Scott

                                      ADK