14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 9, 2010 7:33 AM by JCschild

    Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?

    J.Elliott8652 Level 1

      Folks,

       

      Howdy again from NC. I've been setting up an AMD Phenom II 955 to handle PPro CS5 as well as possible, within limits. I built four of these machines for my math class, and am going to give CS5 a go on one of them before caving in and migrating my Production Premium to an i7/X58 platform. Maybe I'll get lucky and find this computer works acceptably with PPro, especially if I transcode my T2i AVCHD footage (likely Neoscene).

       

      I put three new disks into my build yesterday and would like some pointers on setting them up, if I may ask. I have read through a number of posts on this, but don't find direct answers, unfortunately. I've never set up a RAID and want to get it right.

       

      I have two Caviar Black drives for my RAID and a Hitachi Deskstar for my scratch disk. The Blacks are new out of the pack and the Hitachi has had zeros written to the drive. How to begin?

       

      Anticipated issues:

       

      * Do I need to format the drives in a certain way? I had planned on going into Disk Management and setting up a volume on each as my first move. Right now, they aren't even recognized under My Computer. Under Disk Management, all three show as unallocated.

       

      From memory, I right click in the unallocated space and select an option for setting up the volume. Prior to this I only used straight-up drives, no RAID, and after writing zeros to a drive selected "New Simple Volume". It seems to me this is the move to make on the single scratch disk.

       

      But how about the two RAIDed drives? We also have options to set up as "New Striped Volume" or "New Spanned Volume". If the answer is to set as as "New Striped Volume" for the RAID 0 I have planned, do I do this before or after installing the RAID software?

       

       

      * My documentation for setting up the RAID on my motherboard doesn't indicate when to change my BIOS setting for the two SATA channels from IDE to RAID. Should I do this before or after running the software to set up the RAID? Do I need to go into the software setup with the two SATA channels already configured as RAID?

       

      Right now, all SATA channels are configured as IDE.

       

       

      * After getting my disks set up, I'd like to optimize my system for editing (turning off unwanted features, etc.). I've been looking all over for a link to an outside site I had bookmarked from a prior post, but lost it on re-install. Anyone recall what the favored link was? It started as a long page of instructions in simple typeface.

       

       

      In the end, my disks are as follows (unless someone makes a case to use them differently):

       

      OS/Programs - 1TB Caviar Green. Yes, I know the deal on green drives, but I needed to use this drive somewhere. I figured using it as the OS drive would be the best spot for the slowest drive. Maybe I botched this and should have used the following drive for the OS? I had transfer rates in mind and thought the Scratch drive should be faster?

       

      Scratch - 750GB Deskstar 7K100 series. This drive was tops 18 months back when I bought it.

       

      RAID 0 - Two 640GB Caviar Blacks (32 meg cache, twin processors). A bit older in the Black lineup, but the drive charts show them working quickly.

       

      To ask one dumb last question, which will really show my newbieness, I use the scratch drive for page files (right? and what else?) and the RAID for holding any media to be worked upon and for encoding the final project?

       

      I've been reading on this forum for over a month and am amazed that as I have the drives for a RAID, I can't find good links to tell me what to do. I know I am asking redundant questions here but have already spent two hours with the search engine and am only getting tangential anwers (ha! math joke).

       

      Sorry to be asking such newbie questions all over again, but my luck with the search engine hasn't been so good of late. Maybe Bill's idea of creating a sticky section for common questions is a good idea.

        • 1. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Let's summarize: You have 4 disks, one OS, one Htachi and two WD Caviar Blacks. You want to raid the last two in a raid0.

           

          Bad news: WD Caviar Black is not advised in any raid configuration because of the WDTLER 'utility'.

           

          Solution: use them as 4 separate disks, not raided. Look here: Adobe Forums: Generic Guideline for Disk Setup

           

          You have to format each as a basic disk with only a primary partition from Disk Management.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
            JCschild Level 3

            Harm,

             

            where are you getting this WD blacks do not work in raid?

             

            we use the WD cavier black 1TB 64meg sata 600 all day long in raid 0.

             

            which drives are you talking about? the older ones? we used Seagate prior to the new WDs

             

            Scott

            • 3. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Scott,

               

              Just Google around for WDTLER (Western Digital Time Limit Error Recovery) and read about it. Numerous fora are inundated with posts that complain about this utility, and the general consensus is that it is a marketing tool used to direct people towards the more costly RE4 disks, somewhat similar with the Quadros in CS5 and nVidia's approach, supported initially by Adobe.

               

              Given all those reports and the lack of redundancy of raid0, I would rather have 4 individual disks.

               

              PS. Can you give Eric some time to run the PPBM CS5 test?

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                JCschild Level 3

                this issue you are talking is more standard vs enterprise drives

                not necessarily WD

                 

                Seagate, WD both had this time out issue and more on a raid3/5/6 than standard 0

                i have yet to see this in raid 0 at all or in raid 5 with WD (new drives) we didnt use WD prior to the new 64meg cache.

                seagate was faster :-)

                 

                and yes i think the controller difference is marketing it does not cost for the firmware :-)

                 

                Eric and i are looking forward to checking out the new test.

                it may have time this week!

                 

                SCott

                • 5. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                  J.Elliott8652 Level 1

                  Cripes...

                   

                  Well, better late than never. This is exactly the kind of thing that drives me nuts about computers. I've been reading my butt off on setting up this RAID and not until after I buy and install the drives do I find out the manufacturer has disabled them for RAID.

                   

                  Thanks Harm for the heads-up. Off to eBay with 'em. What really pisses me off is that I could have had 1TB Spinpoint F3's for $55 each last week. But with these, I found a review that while giving them high overall marks, criticized them for slowing down during sequential writes. And I do mean the F3 and not the F1 units.

                   

                  So - what should I get?

                   

                  This does prompt a good question, however. We go to RAID even with lower-tier computers mainly for the improved read speeds, yes? With several layers of video, depending on type, one may easily max out a single drive's ability to deliver content fast enough.

                   

                  But what about writing speed? Writing speed is also improved across a RAID 0 array, but is this aspect as important for video editing? Basically - can the CPU crunch the numbers fast enough during encoding to max out a drive's ability to write? Is there a likely bottleneck during encoding or some other editing process that requires writing throughput at the same level as reading? If not, then a RAID 0 for us po' folk could be based upon the drive's reading throughput exclusively.

                   

                  If I'm right, and a number of people like the F3's, it seems the F3's are the way to go with basic RAID 0 setups right now. IIRC, their read speed is way up there and if this is really the most important aspect of a, NLE RAID 0 setup, then having them slow down during writing shouldn't be an issue.

                   

                  Correct?

                  • 6. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                    JCschild Level 3

                    again with raid 0 there should be no issues if you back up your work like you should it does not matter anyway

                     

                    and yes write speeds matter. when you go to export its very important.

                    • 7. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      OTOH, during exports you only write the aggregate single track, not all the video tracks in your PR time line. It makes no difference on export whether you have only one track or 30+ in your time line in PR, you still end up with a single track in EN, so writing speed is far less important than reading speed.

                      • 8. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                        J.Elliott8652 Level 1

                        Well, I've googled this issue and find a guy whose RAID went down after working fine a few months. Seems folks might be getting bit by this TLER thing.

                         

                        So - when the drive reports an error, the firmware wants to take a few minutes to figure it out in Deep Recovery. The RAID software can't spare that kind of time so it just drops the drive from the array. I will assume that with a non-redundant RAID 0 setup during editing, this means that clip just got cashiered if it was during exporting. What if while working on a project? The timeline just go poof?

                         

                        I can see that if I backup my completed files to a secure drive, then this thing won't get me as often. Question becomes this - how often do these drop-outs occur? I'd hate to lose three hours of work on a project. Now this - can a project be intermittently saved, such that if a drive got dropped I could let it go through its recovery routine, restart, and pick up where I left off?

                         

                        Assuming yes to saving projects this way, what kind of trouble is it to get back up-n-running? Some kind of major re-install or just shut down and restart the computer, restart PPro, load saved project and pick up where the last save got the material?

                         

                        All this sounds like a crappy way to go, always wondering when I'll get bitten even if the re-start isn't much hassle. At least I opted for the Newegg bundle and got two nice cases for only $20 delivered. Silver lining!

                         

                        Scott - could you elaborate on the thought that TLER isn't an issue with RAID 0? I take it you haven't had this drop-out problem?

                        • 9. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                          JCschild Level 3

                          about 75-80% of the systems we ship, ship with this config (others would be bigger arrays or no array)

                           

                          1)OS

                          2) project drive 2 x raid 0

                          3) render to/export drive 2 x raid 0

                          4) back up (pick your poison)

                           

                          while i cant speak to the older WDs (we have not used them for 3-4 yrs until now)

                          i can tell you with Seagate and now WD we have not seen the issue that applies to this inRaid 0

                           

                          we are aware of the timeout issue this happens with controller cards and seagate or WD with large raid 5/6

                          simple answer use enterprise drives for raid 5/6

                           

                          if you look at all the external raid resellers Sonnet etc they all use enterprise drives (mostly seagate)

                          so do we for large raids.

                          (drobo does not so buyer beware (green), we like to sell drobo without drives in it and use ours)

                           

                          again BACK UP do not assume your raid 3/5/6/10/1 whatever is bullet proof, trust me its not

                          so even if you have a loss it should be at best nominal

                           

                          something i dont think i have seen mentioned enough either

                          the single most common cause of drive failure (or any component failure) is Dirty Power!

                           

                          dirty power can be spikes but are usually brown outs (very common in large older cities) or even low voltage coming into the home/office

                          this is the most common.

                          rather than a clean 120v you could see it as low as 105v

                          the other is being on a circuit with a large appliance.

                          ever see your lilghts flicker when the AC kicks on?

                           

                          buy a good inline filter UPS. add 20% MORE wattage than your power supply

                          dont forget to add accessories LCDs, Audio interfaces, speakers/studio monitors etc.

                           

                          Scott

                          ADK

                          • 10. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                            J.Elliott8652 Level 1

                            Well, I'll check this out some more. Thanks all for the info.

                             

                            At some point, I'll be back to square one and the questions about formatting the blank drives as detailed in the lead post.

                             

                            I'd much appreciate some help on these!

                            • 11. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                              rowby Level 1

                              JCschild wrote:

                               


                               

                              buy a good inline filter UPS. add 20% MORE wattage than your power supply

                              dont forget to add accessories LCDs, Audio interfaces, speakers/studio monitors etc.

                               

                              Scott

                              ADK

                               

                              Hi Scott,

                               

                              Incredibly helpful thread here.  Can you recommend any good inline filter UPS.   Brands and model(s).

                               

                              Thanks!


                              Rowby

                              • 12. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                                JCschild Level 3

                                the 2 big companies of course Tripp lite and APC

                                Tripp lite is always less for the same quality

                                 

                                1 example

                                Mfr #: OMNIVS1500  (940W) <--- watt is what you got by not VA.

                                 

                                Mfr #: SU1500XL 1200W getting pricy.

                                 

                                you could get away with buying 1 just to cover the systems power supply

                                and another for accessories

                                 

                                Scott

                                • 13. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                                  Brucemck3 Level 1

                                  I see two fans on the back of that big Triplite ... is it loud and/or can it be made quiet by changing out the fans?

                                  • 14. Re: Setting up RAID 0 and scratch disk from blank drives?
                                    JCschild Level 3

                                    i have the omni 1500 is dead quiet