31 Replies Latest reply on Sep 24, 2010 10:49 AM by Scott Chichelli

    Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?

    Thomas Beach

      I am having a PC built for me next week, exclusively for CS5 usage and have been trying to determine what hardware is essential and what will be overkill.  As someone new to Premiere and relatively new to video editing, I would appreciate any input.  Let me qualify my needs first.

       

      I am self-producing feature-length HD (720p/1080p) historical documentaries for commercial release.  Think of Ken Burns; lots of period stills, B-Roll and talking heads.  I will have almost no need for SFX editing.  Simple, color-corrected video tracks, comprehensive sound design and that's about it.

       

      My hardware concerns center around the CPU and the GPU card.  Let me also state up front that although I can afford the higher end of the items in question, I wish to be pragmatic about it and purchase what I need with some room to grow, without going into overkill mode.

       

      I am considering either the i5 750 or the i7 860.  Both would be on the Intel DP55WG MB.

       

      I am considering either the GeForce GTX470, GTX285 or the FX3800.

       

      Am I correct that if I go with the GTX470 that I will give up the ability to use the Mercury Playback Engine altogether?   On the flipside, can even someone like myself benefit from stepping up to either of the other two cards?  And if so, is it really worth it to pay the extra money for the FX3800 card, given what I'm doing?  Or should I just plan on upgrading to the Quadro cards if and when my projects deem it necessary? 

       

      I appreciate the input.

       

      Tom

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          For HD video, you are not going to be happy with anything less than an X58 motherboard and Intel i7 930 and 12gig of DDR3 ram

           

          My CS5/AVCHD 1st Impressions http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694?tstart=0 includes a link to the computer I built for CS5

           

          Read Harm on drive setup http://forums.adobe.com/thread/662972?tstart=0

           

          Cuda cards http://forums.adobe.com/message/2870496?tstart=0


          nVidia Hack http://forums.adobe.com/thread/629557?tstart=0

           

          The GTX 285 is no longer sold, the GTX 470 works with the hack, and is supposed to be fully supported with the next "dot" upgrade (now at 5.0.1 so maybe 5.0.2)

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
            shooternz Level 6

            I suggest you also do some of your research on the subject here

             

            http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/hardware_forum

             

            There is a great volume of info contained that will help you.

             

            IMHO ... you should future poof your self to a degree by heading more towards "overkill".

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
              Jim_Simon Level 9

              I will second John's comments about the mobo and CPU.  Your current choices are underkill.

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Tom,

                 

                I wish to be pragmatic about it and purchase what I need with some room to grow, without going into overkill mode.

                 

                That means, like John and Jim pointed out, a X58 motherboard and an i7-930 CPU.

                 

                On the same note, the FX3800 is overkill, EOL, underspecced and overpriced. The GTX-285 is no longer distributed. The GTX-470 is the only snesible and economical choice at this moment. It is about twice as fast as the FX4800 at a quarter of the price.

                 

                For room to grow, go for a big tower and don't skimp on the PSU. If you go to the Hardware forum http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/hardware_forum?view=discussions&start=0 and press the Overview tab at the top of the page, there is a drop dowm box with many interesting articles to read about systems, storage, raids etc.

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                  Thomas Beach Level 1

                  Gentlemen,

                   

                  Thank you so much for both your timely as well as decisive recommendations and research links.  I will definitely follow through and, if need be, put the PC build on hold.

                   

                  Harm, I read and re-read your 'To RAID or Not To RAID' article with great interest as well as your Generic Disk(?) article.  As a novice, I confess I am struggling to understand the RAID options, which prompts me to ask the following even in the face of those articles.  Since video editing will be my primary use, is it fair to say that you would strongly recommend the RAID 3 set-up?  I had been recommended a 3Ware controller and RAID 5 from the builder.  But I believe 3Ware does not make a RAID 3 capable controller which is why I assume you stated that you must own an Areca controller?  Assuming I move toward RAID 3, which Areca card at minimum, would you recommend today?  I see from there site that they have many RAID 3 capable controllers?  Continuing the "overkill" theme, is it adviseable to spend the extra money upfront and get a least an 8x port card or will a 4x port card suffice?

                   

                  Finally, thanks for the unsolicited PS advice.  Having previously read your threads last month regarding PS's I already had a yellow flag up when the quotes I received included only 350W PS's. 

                   

                  Again, many thanks to you all.  And I hope I may continue to ask for your advice as I make my way.

                   

                  Tom

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    I'll be the dissenting voice here and say that I think you're fine with either system--though bigger/better/faster/more will always leave for less wanting. Of course, this depends on the nature of the 720p/1080p HD you're talking about: if it's DVCPROHD P2 MXFs or XDCAM of one flavor or another, you're good to go, but if you're talking about AVCHD, then that's another game altogether. I've cut both the former footage types on a computer several generations older and less powerful than what you're proposing (and similar project types, too), and had a totally workable experience.

                     

                    For the relatively basic kind of editing you're describing, I personally don't see the reason to go all-out on a new system, but as I mentioned above, the nature of your footage will dictate the level of hardware you need. That all said, if you're good with spending more, you're more likely to have an even better experience.

                     

                    How's that for ambivalent?

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Tom,

                       

                      Since your intended editing is pretty straightforward, although long-form, I would go the 'grow-as-you-go' route.

                       

                      What do I mean? Well, Raid3 is better for video editing than Raid5, but it also requires an Areca controller and they don't come cheap. So it may be worth considering to start with using the on-board ICHR10 chip for a Raid5 configuration, and when you find you need more power, speed or space to then invest in an Areca card (one of the reasons you need an X58 mobo instead of a P55 mobo, since it lacks the expansion capability to add a good raid controller).

                       

                      Currently the series I advise is the Areca ARC-1680iX. These come in 8/12/16/24 port versions. The advantage of the 12-port and higher versions is that the cache memory can be upgraded from 512 MB to 1, 2 or 4 GB maximum. The 8-port has 512 MB fixed. A new version has been announced but is not yet on the market, the 1880iX series with a better IOP and support for SATA III.

                       

                      If you go the 'grow-as-you-go' route, take into consideration that data on the Raid5 need to be backed up to another disk(s) before you can create a new Raid3 on an Areca if you intend to just reconnect the disks to the new controller.

                       

                      BTW. I have the 12 port version. If I were to build a new PC now, I would go for the 24 port version.

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                        Thomas Beach Level 1

                        Thanks, Colin.  I appreciate the alternate POV. 

                         

                        Tom

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                          Thomas Beach Level 1

                          So it may be worth considering to start with using the on-board ICHR10 chip for a Raid5 configuration,

                          Harm,

                           

                          Not sure I understand.  So you are saying that with an Intel DX58SO mobo I can avoid the expense of having to purchase a RAID controller?  My knowledge on mobos is pretty limited.  So pardon me if I am completely off base in my interpretation.  Please clarify.  Thanks.

                           

                          Thanks for the heads-up regarding the need to backup RAID5 before going RAID3 in future.

                           

                          Tom

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Yes, the Intel mobo supports raid5, so you can defer the investment in an Areca card to some moment in the future.

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                              Scott Chichelli Level 3

                              a word of caution.

                              i have not tested one in awhile but the Intel board was horrid (even an intel raid card would not work in it in fact a PCI or PCIe firewire would not work right.

                              not to mention it has only 4 memory slots (only 3 are useable) and its too pricy.

                               

                              another FYI

                              the price of a 930 vs 860 build is nearly identical. so why would anyone waste time and money on P55 platform!

                               

                              Scott

                              ADK

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                Raid 5 on the onboard controller is not something I would entertain. I have seen the drive time out issue way to much with raid 5 on the onboard. That is why we don't offer the option for raid 5 on the onboard controllers anymore. This has to do with the regular desktop drives not having a timeout function built into the firmware like enterprise drives do. The controller will mark the drive as bad incorrectly and cause the array to go into degrade status. Rebuilds on onboard raid controllers also take forever compared to enterprise controller cards and are not as reliable.

                                 

                                I also still disagree with Harm on the raid level to use. Raid 5 over all performance is better than Raid 3 which is why it's the most predominantly used raid standard.  With the current raid controllers the performance gain for sequential read on raid 3 is not as significant as it use to be compared to raid 5 and random read and write is far better on raid 5. You also have cheaper options for controllers with better raid management software than Areca. Their hardware is good but their management software is by far not the most comprehensive. Look at this controller which is already has 6Gb/s support and the best management software around. Performance including rebuilds is excellent and it's cheap. Best product for the price.

                                 

                                http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/highlights/server/rs2bl080

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                  Thomas Beach Level 1

                                  i have not tested one in awhile but the Intel board was horrid (even an intel raid card would not work in it in fact a PCI or PCIe firewire would not work right.

                                  not to mention it has only 4 memory slots (only 3 are useable) and its too pricy.

                                  Hi Scott,

                                   

                                  Appreciate you weighing in.  Couple of questions come to mind after reading your post.

                                   

                                  Are you referring to any and all Intel mobo's or either the DP55WB/WG or the DX58SO singularly?

                                   

                                  Given your opinion of these boards, could you please offer at least two other comparable recommendations in lieu of the aforementioned boards?

                                   

                                  What exactly do you mean in that only 3 memory slots are "useable?"  Please amplify.

                                   

                                  Thanks

                                   

                                  Tom

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                    Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                    HI,

                                    if i recall correctly the P55 intel board was ok. there is some reason we dont sell it however until Eric gets in i wont know why

                                    the DX58SO definately was trash, after several bios updates and us talking to Intels engineers they still didnt get it working correctly

                                    and with the only 4 slots for ram we quickly abondanded it as a viable platform anyway.

                                    FYI i get back end money from Intel for every motherboard i sell of theirs so obviously that would be my first choice (if it worked right and had 6 slots for ram)

                                     

                                    as far as ram slots the X58 has only 4 slots where pretty much ALL other X58 boards have 6.

                                    since on an X58 platform you have to install ram in sets of 3 the 4th slot is pointless on the intel X58

                                    also leaves you with max 12gig. again every other would be 24Gig.

                                    the correct install for an X58 is sets of 3 so

                                    3,6,12,24 is the only correct way.  (not 8,9 16, 18)

                                     

                                    on P55 its sets of 2 so

                                    2,4,8,16  (not 6 or 12)

                                     

                                    Scott

                                    ADK

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                      Thomas Beach Level 1

                                      Harm,

                                       

                                      Just curious to get your feedback, should you choose to offer it regarding Scott's remarks on the DX58SO.  Not trying to stir up trouble here.  And I realize that computer hardware is a vast sea of subjectivity.  But as a retailer, Scott makes some reasonably harsh and pointed comments on this board.  And as I know you and many others in this forum are fans of the DX58SO, I just wanted to get a balance review.  I have been considering either the Intel DX58SO, DP55WB/WG or the Asus P6TD.  Thanks again for your input.

                                       

                                      Tom

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                        John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Not Harm... but I did look at Intel and Gigabyte and Asus before I built my computer

                                         

                                        Intel was out of the race immediately, since it only has 4 ram slots and the other two both have 6... I wanted 12Gig and 3x4 for the Intel was just WAY too much money, so 6x2 was my choice of motherboard

                                         

                                        I finally decided on Asus P6T SE since it had all the features I need... and is working very well

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          Tom,

                                           

                                          I'm not a fan of Intel mobo's, not even in their server class category. I prefer Asus or Gigabyte for single CPU boards and SuperMicro for dual processor boards. No experience with the EVGA dual processor board yet.

                                           

                                          Scott makes a good point about the limited number of RAM slots, which makes this board a cripple in comparison to most others, based on the X58.

                                           

                                          The major drawback of the P55 in comparison to a X58, as I have stated before, is the limited number of PCIe lanes and the limited memory slots. That is why I always recommend X58 for video editing. And then only (at least IMO) Asus and Gigabyte remain as good choices.

                                           

                                          Selecting a good mobo is being critical of features, expansion capabilities, on-board chips used, capacitors used, user reports, price, layout, etc.

                                           

                                          An example is two users who both have the Asus P6T Supercomputer, one is as Germans say: "Himmelhoch jauchzend" and the other is: "Zum Toden betruebt."  (Praising heaven and mourning the dead comes close in translation).

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                            Baz R Level 3

                                            Harm any comment on the ECbowen reply regarding RAID 5 & 3.

                                             

                                            Regards

                                             

                                            Baz

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                              Thomas Beach Level 1

                                              Hello John,

                                              Can't thank you enough for your opinions.  I look forward to reading your impressions.

                                              Thanks again.

                                              Tom

                                               

                                              Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:19:43 -0600

                                              From: forums@adobe.com

                                              To: filmman56@hotmail.com

                                              Subject: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?

                                               

                                              Not Harm... but I did look at Intel and Gigabyte and Asus before I built my computer

                                               

                                              Intel was out of the race immediately, since it only has 4 ram slots and the other two both have 6

                                               

                                              I finally decided on Asus P6T SE since it had all the features I need... and is working very well

                                               

                                              My CS5/AVCHD 1st Impressions http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694?tstart=0

                                              >

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                Baz,

                                                 

                                                Keep in mind that Eric must look at it differently than I, because he sells many brands of controllers, not only Areca, which is pretty expensive. He must give remote support, and then the software is important, for me the software is not relevant.

                                                 

                                                Raid5 has its strength in random R/W actions and that is why it is often used in situations with a large number of I/O transactions. Raid3 has its strength in sequential R/W actions, which is typical for video editing. Raid3 has a serious advantage when rebuilding over Raid5. For people like you and me with massive raids, the limitation of the PCIe bus is the more limiting factor.

                                                • 21. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                  Thomas Beach Level 1

                                                  Harm,

                                                   

                                                  Thank you for clearing that up for me.  As I've mentioned previously, my experience is limited.  I misunderstood and thought every time you referred to the X58 that you were talking about an Intel board which carried that model number (DX58SO).  I see now this is a reference to the "chipset" I presume and which is used across different manufacturers and in numerous boards?

                                                   

                                                  I greatly appreciate the direct recommendations and input from everyone.  I will look toward Asus or Gigabyte.

                                                   

                                                  Tom

                                                  • 22. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                    John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    >Asus or Gigabyte

                                                     

                                                    Both are good... from what I've read here (concerning CS5) I think the Asus is favored over Gigabyte by about 9-to-1

                                                     

                                                    I have an Asus P6T SE and am very happy with the performance

                                                     

                                                    I have not read anything BAD about Gigabyte, just that it seems to be about 10% -vs- almost 90% for Asus... with a few other brands thrown in but not mentioned nearly as often as Asus

                                                    • 23. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                      Thomas Beach Level 1

                                                      Even a cursory glance reveals a great many choices within the Asus and Gigabyte families.  The P6T SE as well as the D versions of Asus all look sufficient for my needs as do the Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5, UD7 or even the UD3. Would entertain other specific model recommendations both in Asus and Gigabyte as it relates to Premiere CS5.  Thanks.

                                                       

                                                      Tom

                                                      • 24. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                        John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        The one thing that I don't need (for AVCHD footage) and thus don't know much about is RAID

                                                         

                                                        If you decide your footage needs raid for data transfer speed, be sure to pick a motherboard with a good raid controller... and then ask specific questions about that motherboard

                                                         

                                                        Or, look into the Areca (?) card that Harm recommends

                                                        1 person found this helpful
                                                        • 25. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                          Thomas Beach Level 1

                                                          I've studied both Asus and Gigabyte closely the last several days and find that they are, of course, very similar in specs.  I am especially interested in the Asus P6T Deluxe.  All appear to be able to handle RAID 3 or 5 (Harm's recommendations) without issues as well as Areca/Adaptec/3Ware RAID cards.  One interesting thing I did notice about the Gigabyte UD series mobos is that they offer an additional BIOS chip for quick restoration in case of crashes or viruses.  As a Mac user these last twelve years, and not having to previously worry about such things, I am most concerned about the great vulnerability of PC's in this regard (if I didn't need a broadband connection for updates I'd go w/o internet).  Consequently, the additional BIOS backup chip strikes me as a great bonus feature and pushes me a bit more in the Gigabyte direction. 

                                                           

                                                          Tom

                                                          • 26. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                            Thomas Beach Level 1

                                                            Is the lack of RAID 3 support on the mobo only of consequence if you DO NOT make the decision to go with a RAID controller card and hence rely soley upon the ICHR10 chipset?  In other words, when you go with a controller card like Areca, and that controller card provides for say, RAID 3, does it then matter at all that your mobo like Asus and Gigabyte does not originally support RAID 3?  Thanks.

                                                             

                                                            Tom

                                                            • 27. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                              Tom,

                                                               

                                                              If you get a Bose audio set with independent control in different rooms, it does not mean you can no longer use the radio clock on your nightstand. Consider the Bose an Areca card and the radio clock the ICHR10.

                                                              • 28. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                                Thomas Beach Level 1

                                                                First, let me again say thanks to everyone who contributed to this forum thread which I started back in June.  I read all of your comments with great interest and followed up with a lot of research.

                                                                 

                                                                For those of you who might have an interest, I thought I would follow up this thread by finally listing the equipment I decided upon for my CS5 Production Premium Suite:

                                                                 

                                                                Intel i7 930 Processor

                                                                 

                                                                ASUS P6X58D Premium

                                                                (6) Crucial Premium PC3-8500 2GB 1066MHz DDR3

                                                                 

                                                                NVIDIA GeForce GTX470

                                                                Areca ARC-1220 8-port RAID Control

                                                                Manhattan 750W Power Supply

                                                                (3) Seagate 1TB 7200 SATA Drives (RAID 5)

                                                                Seagate 250GB 7200 RPM SATA (boot drive)

                                                                LG 22x DVD-RW SATA

                                                                Dual Port eSATA PCIe Card

                                                                Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green SATA II 7200 RPM (backup drive)

                                                                Coolmaster Centurion 590 Case

                                                                Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

                                                                (2) ASUS VH236HL-P 23" LCD HD Monitors

                                                                 

                                                                My only question at this point is whether it is an advantage to inquire about upping my RAM from 1066 MHz to 2000 MHz or not?  I made sure to take advantage of the triple channel, so I wonder if the performance benefits would outweigh the costs of such an upgrade.  I'm thinking I'd be better off just upgrading to 24GB of RAM in the future instead.

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks again to all.

                                                                 

                                                                Tom

                                                                • 29. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                                  Michael Scarn

                                                                  I would definitely upgrade that power supply to a 1000W PSU... 1200W to be safe.

                                                                   

                                                                  1000W

                                                                  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139007

                                                                  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171056

                                                                   

                                                                  1200W

                                                                  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139014

                                                                  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171055

                                                                   

                                                                  If you really want to future proof your rig, you gotta have one of these:

                                                                  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256054

                                                                  I would just get that guy and be done with it. Better to be safe than sorry

                                                                  • 30. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                                    Thomas Beach Level 1

                                                                    Thanks much, Micahel  Appreciate your input.  I was very careful in choosing my builder (storefront) as well as being very clear about PS recommendations.  The tech spoke of actual performance degradations of certain components with such PS levels.  He assured me that given my equipment in this build that I was in no danger of being underpowered.  I took a long time in getting this system built and I decided to trust his judgement.  But I genuinely appreciate both yours as well as everyone elses input, which I assure you I have taken quite openly and quite seriously.  Just picked up the computer yesterday.  So I will have a better idea in a few weeks how this system is performing.

                                                                     

                                                                    Best,

                                                                     

                                                                    Tom

                                                                    • 31. Re: Premiere Pro CS5 and Hardware Overkill?
                                                                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                                                      """"The tech spoke of actual performance degradations of certain components with such PS levels""""

                                                                       

                                                                      your are kidding i hope. as thats the biggest bag of BS i have ever heard.

                                                                      and yes you should have gone with better ram DDR3 1600

                                                                       

                                                                      with that said congrats on your new system!

                                                                       

                                                                      scott

                                                                      ADK