15 Replies Latest reply on Jul 13, 2010 7:11 AM by the_wine_snob

    Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show

    boxan_21

      Running Premiere Elements 8 and loading a slide show for Photoshop Elements 8.  Everything is fine but got to some of my "portrait" pics and they are rotated in the wrong direction and stretched.  The puzzling thing is that all the pics came from same camera (Canon Rebel XTI) and some are OK, others are not. Any help would be greatly appreciated, or a solution to correct this.  Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          boxan 21

           

          First the classical questions "What are the pixel dimensions of the photos used in this project? And how many photos?" How did you transfer the Photoshop Elements 8.0 slideshow to Premiere Elements 8.0.1...Photoshop Elements Slide Show Editor Output Option = Edit With Premiere Elements?

           

          What else is in this slideshow and how long is it?

           

          What is the Premiere Elements 8.0.1 project preset (new project dialog)? Is the Premiere Elements 8.0.1 Timeline heading for burn to disc (Share/Disc/Disc DVD with a Standard or Widescreen preset?)

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            Also, have you ensured that your photos are no larger than 1000x750 pixels in size, per the FAQs to the right of this forum?

             

            Oversized photos can cause some strange behavior.

            • 3. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              For the Rotated images, how did you do the Rotation to Vertical? If in Organizer, that will write metadata flag for display, but the actual images will not yet be Rotated. The actual pixels are arranged as they were captured. Same happens in Adobe Bridge, Organizer's big-brother. To get the images into the proper orientation, one would just Open those images in Photoshop, and do a Save. Personally, I just keep them in PSD format, as that is the native format of Phtotoshop.

               

              After Opening in PS, I do all of my Scaling. Steve has suggested some pixel x pixel dimensions, and this ARTICLE will give you tips on doing the Scaling through Actions for batch automation.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                boxan_21 Level 1

                First, thanks for all the comments. My first time using this Forum.  I've been using Photoshop/Premiere Elements 7 and recently upgraded to version 8, along with upgrading from Vista to Windows 7. I'm running on a Dell Desk XPS with i7 dual quad processers and 6GB ram with ~700GB free hard disk space, so the horsepower should be there to handle such operations.

                My first thought is that it has something to do with this. Haven't had this problem before. I now realize that I should be sizing my pics (1,000 x 750) which I have never done, but still have been succesful in the past. No wonder my rendering has taken so long!!

                Regarding my pixel size, most are in the 3300 x 2000 pixel range.

                • I have only still digital pics and one song in the mix. I've also just placed ~20 pics (full size) into a test slide show and still have a couple of portrait pics that get rotated and stretched/distorted in the wrong orientation.
                • I can not identify why these pics are doing this. They are ones that I have not done any editing on, some which I have edited, but all out of the same time/date period and camera (Canon Rebel XTI)
                • I have also created a slide show in Photoshop Elements and the orientation is correct. When I output to Premiere Element (PE 8), the orientation of the some portrait pics get rotated wrong.  Some are just fine.
                • I have also created a slideshow from scratch in Premiere Elements. Same problem comes up.
                • As for the method of importing the files into Photoshop Organizer, I have the settings to allow the camera to drive the pic orientation and has always worked in the past. Everything looks fine in the Organizer. I have over 16,000 pics and have created slide shows before with no issues.  That's why I'm wondering if this has something to do with the new version (8) or Windows 7 ???
                • I'll have to check on the setting again tonight and respond, but fairly certain that the PE settings are for HD widescreen, on the path to burning onto a DVD for playback on HD TV.
                • I will also perform a batch conversion of pics to the size of 1000 x 750 to see if this also helps.

                 

                I truly appreciate the interest and comments. Will check later to review any additional comments.

                • 5. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Well, the lack of Rotation comes from not having brought them into PS/PSE, and then doing the Save. You can use the fixed Effect>Motion>Rotation (from the Edit Effects) to correct the Rotation. This will add a bit more processing overhead, as most Effects will. That is why I do all still image editing in PS. Also, the quality will be better, than doing the Scaling and Rotation in PrE.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                    Hunt, that command is for Pro, not Elements.

                     

                    In Premiere Elements, you right-click on the clip on the timeline and select Show Properties. In the Properties panel, you open the Motion properties and set Rotation to 90.

                    • 7. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      They must have moved it, after PrE 4.0. Seems odd that they would, as Pro has always had the fixed Effects in the Effects Control Panel, which has been the equivalent to Edit Effects.

                      Effects)Motion)Rotation.jpg

                       

                      Thank you for the correction,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                        A.T. Romano Level 7

                        Correction?

                         

                         

                        Hunt

                         

                         

                         

                        From your screenshot of the Premiere Elements 4.0 Properties Palette/Motion Panel and the Motion Panel's properties which include Rotate, I believe that you and SG are talking about the same thing but

                         

                        (a) you are letting your “fixed” in “fixed Effect>Motion>Rotation (from the Edit Effects)” obscure what you are saying

                         

                        and

                         

                        (b) SG, is limiting his vision to right clicking the video, selecting Show Properties, and set Rotation to 90 (where in reality you get the options of Rotate Left or Rotate Right or dial in a rotation depending on which direction the rotation needs to go in.).

                         

                         

                         

                        I actually have Premiere Elements 4.0, 7.0, and 8.0.1 installed on my computer and use them one at a time all the time, so here is my take on the matter.

                         

                         

                         

                        For Timeline content rotation you need to get to the Properties Palette/Motion Panel and the Rotation property in the Motion Panel. PERIOD. You can adjust the Rotation by clicking the Rotate Left or Rotate Right buttons there OR dial in the rotation with your mouse cursor to the right of that area.

                         

                        THE PROPERTIES PALETTE FOR PREMIERE ELEMENTS 4.0, 7.0, AND 8.0/8.0.1 ARE EXACTLY THE SAME IN THIS REGARD.

                         

                         

                         

                        Getting to the Premiere Elements Properties Panel

                        Premiere Elements 4.0

                        a. right clicking the video and selecting Show Properties

                        or

                        b. Window Menu/Properties

                        Premiere Elements 7.0 and 8.0/8.0.1

                        a. right clicking the video and selecting Show Properties

                        or

                        b. Window Menu/Properties

                        or

                        c. Highlighting the video on the Timeline and then clicking on the Properties Icon just above the Timeline

                         

                        Although the Edit Effects option after you apply an Effect will take you to the Properties Panel, I do not see where it is really needed under the circumstances and in light of the other avenues.

                         

                        But when all that Band-Aid talk is put out the way, the fundamental issue is the rotation of video on transfer of the Photoshop Elements slideshow to Premiere Elements, using the Photoshop Elements Edit With Premiere Elements Command. That and black video are frequent “unexpected” slideshow transfer issues when one uses oversized photos in one of these projects destined for DVD-VIDEO. Resizing of the photos to pixel dimensions not to exceed 1000 x 750 pixels and checking out your computer resources should be priority business. Remember Premiere Elements is a 32 bit application running in the 32 bit compatibility mode of a 64 bit system and as such has the limitations of 32 bit. It is not a 64 bit application that can take full advantage of that 64 bit installed RAM. A 32 bit system supports max 4 GB installed RAM of which about 3 GB RAM or less are available. How much available RAM does your computer have when you are running Photoshop Elements Premiere Elements?

                         

                        ATR

                        • 9. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          ATR,

                           

                          If the fixed Effect>Motion>Rotation still exists in Edit Effects, you have it wrong. PERIOD! If it has been moved, then I am incorrect that it can be done from there. Since you have PrE 4, 7 & 8, has the fixed Effect>Motion>Rotation been removed from access via Edit Effects? That would be the question.

                           

                          As for "fixed Effects" getting in the way, do you understand what a fixed Effect is? I cannot believe that you do. These are the Effects that Clips are automatically assigned, when placed onto the Timeline, i.e. Opacity, Motion>Scale/Position/Rotation and if there is an Audio stream, then Volume.

                           

                          Now, if PrE has eliminated the fixed Effects from a Selected Clip, whether still, or AV, the Properties route may well be the only method. What would seem odd to me would be that Adobe would unilaterally eliminate some of the fixed Effects for Clips, as they have been a part of the Adobe NLE's from at least PrPro 1.0/Pr 7.0. Every Clip on the Timeline will possess them, with Volume being assigned and visible only when there is a muxed Audio stream in the AV file. Still, Adobe has made some odd decisions, regarding how and where things work in PrE with newer versions. That is why I thanked Steve, when he pointed out that the fixed Effect>Motion>Rotation was no longer available, as it was in PrE 4, and has been in all versions of PrPro.

                           

                          As for the Effect>Moton>Rotation working, I just Rotated a still, a Video Clip and a Title incrementally, and then by setting the degrees of Rotation, by both click-dragging and also by typing in the degrees that I wished.

                           

                          For the OP, the easiest way to achieve the desired rotation is to Open the Image in PS, and if Organizer is like Bridge, the "flag" for rotation will orient the image for display. Then, just do a Save, and the image will now be correctly oriented.

                           

                          Sorry to get you so confused by my use of the term, "fixed Effects," but I assumed that most folk knew what those were, and how they applied to Clips.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            But when all that Band-Aid talk is put out the way, the fundamental issue is the rotation of video on transfer of the Photoshop Elements slideshow to Premiere Elements, using the Photoshop Elements Edit With Premiere Elements Command.

                             

                            Did you bother to read my reply #3. In that, I gave the OP the best way to handle things, so that PrE was not even in the equation.

                             

                            I feel that your horse is getting mighty high here, and I am at a total loss as to explain why.

                             

                            If the Edit Effects brings up the fixed Effects, what exactly is your problem?

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              Hunt

                               

                              What confused me was SG telling you that you were using Premiere Pro commands for Premiere Elements, you posting a Premiere Elements 4.0 Properties Palette screenshot that looks like the Properties Palette in Premiere Elements 7.0 and 8.0, and you seeming to wonder if there were changes in this area along the versions in the Properties Palette/Image, Motion, Volume, Opacity Panels and Rotation Options. On that basis, I had hoped to clear up what did not seem to come together. And, I did not see why Edit Effects to bring up the Properties Palette was coming into the mix for rotating video, when there were more classical ways to bring up the Properties Palette. I hope that you understand the whys behind my post on that part. The "fixed" Effects label that you applied to what you were seeing made me wonder if you were referring to something other than the Properties Panel with its default Panels and their options.

                               

                              As for the rotation of the video, you suggested a fix with Premiere Elements out of the equation. Based on my experiences, this type of rotated video and black video are not fixed by adjusting the rotation before the video gets to Premiere Elements, but rather the fix has been resizing the many oversized photos which I believe create a problem in the slideshow transfer to Premiere Elements using the Edit With Premiere Elements command.

                               

                              I hope that the above explanations of what I wrote originally are now put in context and that you understand that I posted to reconcile differences between you and SG, not to set the place on fire and generate smoke to obscure the fundamental issues that need resolution so that this user can move forward in the project. I sensed a bit of over reaction on your part here. Maybe give me the benefit of a re-read.

                               

                              You are a valued associate and I value our discussions, so I hope that you are OK on this.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                I did not see why Edit Effects was coming into the mix for rotating video, when bringing up the Properties Palette would be the classical way to go.

                                 

                                As with many Adobe programs, there are often many ways to accomplish the very same result. In PS, I can do things any number of ways, and chose the one, in this case, that is part of my normal workflow. Now, in PrPro, it's one less click, as I keep Effects Control Panel open all the time, but in PrPro, it's behind Edit Effects on the Effects Tab. Still, it accesses those fixed Effects, rather like Effects Control Panel in PrPro does. I am not saying that there are not other ways to accomplish the Rotation, and was amazed, by Steve's comment that it was not where I had located it. My only conclusion was that Adobe had moved things, as odd as that seemed. Hearing that Effect>Motion>Rotation is still where I pointed to it, is comforting. Thank you for that clarification.

                                 

                                As for the rotation of the video, you suggested a fix with Premiere Elements out of the equation. Based on my experiences, this type of rotated video and black video are not fixed by adjusting the rotation before the video gets to Premiere Elements, but rather the fix has been resizing the many oversized photos which I believe create a problem in the slideshow transfer to Premiere Elements using the Edit With Premiere Elements command.

                                In the OP's case, the images needing Rotation were stills, that probably had rotation added in Organizer, which uses a metadata flag, like Adobe Bridge does. This is for display only, until one Opens the image in an image-editing program, like PS, or PSE. Then, that metadata flag is applies, and when the user does a Save, or a Save_As, the actual Rotation is applied.

                                 

                                When it comes to the resampling algorithms in PS/PSE and PrE, with regards to Rotation, I do not know how they relate, unlike the Scale, which I have tested extensively. My gut feeling, with no testing, would be that the image-editing program would do at least as good, if not better job, of resampling the pixels, yielding a better vertical image. When I have vertical images that are digitally acquired, I will rotate them in Bridge for viewing better, then Open in PS, Scale and at that time, apply the metadata flag to actually Rotate the image, when I Save_As PSD (in my case). That takes PrE (or PrPro) completely out of the mix.

                                 

                                Obviously, if one has Video Assets, and they do not take them into AfterEffects, or into PS-Extended, their only choice is to do the Rotation in the NLE program, and live with any resampling that will occur.

                                 

                                I greatly appreciate your pointing out that Adobe has not, in fact, moved things around. How a user accesses the controls will depend on how they normally work. Thank you for that,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                                  boxan_21 Level 1

                                  OK, thanks to lots of input (and my daughter finishing a last minute paper for a college summer class), I was able to try some of the suggestions.

                                  • First, I created a couple of folders for Portrait and Landscape and chose about 10 pics of each type in PSE.
                                  • Did a "Process Multiple Files" and saved them as .PSD (with 1024 pixels for Landscape and 768 width for Portrait)
                                  • Took the ~20 pics (.PSD) into PS slide show, then output to PE.
                                  • GOOD NEWS - All orientation was correct. 

                                   

                                  I'll finish with the other files tomorrow, add some music, render and burn to DVD and see how it looks.  I must admit, I'm still not quite sure the most efficient way to convert all (or some) of the pics in PS to the .PSD format and keep these available in the Organizer along with their duplicate twins in JPEG form.

                                   

                                  Hunt, I understand your desire to keep the originals separate and safe,.........share the same opinion. Wondering if you only convert some or all your pics to .PSD or maybe just the one's you plan to use in Video. You may have stated this in another session. If so, sorry for asking again.

                                   

                                  Appeciate all the help.  I'll let you know how the ~95 pic slide show turns out.

                                   

                                  PS: I think someone asked what the status of RAM was when I loaded PE.  It was ~1.8Gb prior and 2.3Gb (of 6Gb) after loading the ~20 pic slide show.

                                  • 14. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                                    boxan 21

                                     

                                    Thanks for the follow up information and the good news that your project is moving forward successfully now.

                                     

                                    Continued success.

                                     

                                    ATR

                                    • 15. Re: Portrait pics wrong orientation when creating slide show
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      I keep the vast majority of my images in both RAW and DNG format on a NAS (Networked Attached Storage) unit, and when I need them, I just Copy over to an internal HDD. For Video work, I use this WORKFLOW, but it is for PS, and I understand that it does not quite translate perfectly to PSE. When I have done whatever manipulation I need, I can then Delete those Copies from the internal, as they are on the NAS.

                                       

                                      I will automate via batch processing, and choose my destination as a "Stills" folder, under my Project's root folder, and might well have a few sub-folders under Stills, if I have several sizes, for operations, such as Panning on a Zoomed out image, requiring more pixels. Then, when the Project is complete, I can just Delete the Project folder, removing all sub-folders below it, like Music, Titles, Audio, SFX, etc.. This makes "housekeeping" much easier.

                                       

                                      As far as the processing of the original images, if I use them and process them in PS, actually in ACR and PS, I will then create a PSD folder for that subject and will do any Rotation, and processing, saving the working files (all Layers, and Adjustment Layers intact), in case I ever need to go back. It will be these PSD's, that I bring into PS again, when I need to Scale for Video work. Usually, if I am still satisfied with the processing, I will just Flatten the Layers, Scale, perhaps Crop, and then Save_As PSD in the desired pixel x pixel size.

                                       

                                      Now, with vertical images in Video, which is horizontal, one has a couple of options. One can just Scale to where the horizontal dimension of the image matches the horizontal of the Video, i.e. 720 pixels, and then effectively crop parts of the extra vertical pixels with the Video's Frame Size. Another way to handle the verticals, is to use them as verticals, and then address the space on either side of the image. This ARTICLE will give you some tips on how one might want to handle that space. One could also do a matrix of verticals, say 2 with PiP, side-by-side, like a split-screen.

                                       

                                      Good luck,

                                       

                                      Hunt