30 Replies Latest reply on Jul 15, 2010 12:58 PM by JimHess-DIrcbP

    Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR

    El Dingo

      I have the problem that when I open a (Pentax) raw image in ACR the colours (particularly blue it seems to me) go awry.

       

      If I open  the image in Pentax Photo Browser the image is displayed correctly.
      If  I convert the image to jpg in Pentax Photo Lab the image is displayed  correctly.
      If I open this jpg in Photoshop Elements 8 the image is  displayed correctly.
      It's only when I open the raw files directly in Photoshop  that the colours are wrong.

       

      Opening the raw file in Elements opens the  'Camera raw' window, which has various adjustment tabs with sliders.   What ever adjustments I make in this window, I cannot seem to  replicate/keep the correct colours.

       

      I have tried resetting and then using the Camera Raw Defaults.

       

      I've also tried some other adjustments, i.e. setting the white  balance to 'Daylight' (as this is how the camera is usually set) and the  camera calibration to 'Camera Standard' - I can get the blue somewhat  close, but then the yellow is out.

       

      So, at the moment, I have to process  the raw files in Pentax Photo lab, then open and edit them in  Photoshop.

      It would be nice to be able to bring single PEF files into PS without having to convert them first.

       

       

      What  on earth am I doing wrong?  Or is this a genuine limitation with ACR?

      Any help/guidance would be appreciated!

       

      Regards,

      Dingo.

        • 1. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
          Level 4

          A lot more information is needed before anyone can assist you.

           

          Please indicate the platform you are on (PC or Macintosh), the exact versions of your OS, Photoshop, Photoshop Elements and ACR you are running, the exact Pentax camera model(s) that generates your raw PEF or DNG files, whether you have installed the latest camera profiles,etc.

           

          I work with raw PEF files from a Pentax K20D and a Pentax *istD in ACR 5.7 hosted by Photoshop 11.0.1 (CS4) with the latest camera profiles, and I can assure you that the ACR conversion beats the pants off the primitive Pentax software.  There's just no comparison.

           

          You do have to learn how to use Camera Raw, of course, as basically it was originally not designed to emulate the results of the camera manufacturer's conversion software, but the additional camera profiles include one ("Camera Standard") that comes very close to the camera manufacturer's conversion.  ACR is very powerful and versatile and it lets you mimic any conversion you wish once you learn how to use it.

           

           

          Wo Tai Lao Le

          我太老了

          • 2. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
            Level 4

            Incidentally, be advised that ACR is severely emasculated—by design—when hosted by Photoshop Elements as compared to when it is hosted by the full version of Photoshop.  Even though the Camera Raw plug-in is the same one, it is forcefully limited when hosted by Elements, having less adjustment tabs and capabilities than it has in the full version of Photoshop, reflecting the hefty price differential between the two applications.

             

            One cannot refer to Elements as just Photoshop.  Photoshop Elements just isn't Photoshop.

             

             

             

            Wo Tai Lao Le

            我太老了

            • 3. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
              Level 4

              Please note that I edited my previous post to add one last paragraph.  Thank you.

               

              Wo Tai Lao Le

              我太老了

              • 4. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                JimHess-DIrcbP Level 3

                Your Pentax Photo Browser reads all of the in-camera settings such as saturation, sharpness, etc..  Camera Raw does not read those settings, but rather provide you with the "raw" image data.  You need to adjust one of your images so that it looks right in Camera Raw, and then save those settings as your defaults.  Then those settings will be applied to images whenever they are loaded i
                into Camera Raw, giving you more of a common or standard starting point.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                  El Dingo Level 1

                  Hi Tai Lao,

                   

                  I have a PC running Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit, PSE version 8, ACR version 6.1.0.250, Pentax K10D firmware 1.31, PEF raw files, latest camera profiles.

                   

                  Thanks,

                  Dingo.

                  • 6. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                    El Dingo Level 1

                    Re: Photoshop v. Photoshop Elements, I used to use Photshop 5, but it won't install on Win 7 at all.  It doesn't have ACR, so this is new to me.

                     

                    Thanks,

                    Dingo.

                    • 7. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                      El Dingo Level 1

                      Jim Hess,

                       

                      That's helpful advice, thank you.  Sadly, I've been unable so far to make adjustments in ACR that are anywhere near (IMHO) the images as displayed in Pentax Photo Lab.  Even the (truly awful) MS Office picture manager provides more consistent colour.

                       

                      I'm still convinced that I'm doing something wrong.  I know that Elements is much cheaper than full Photshop (something that I simply can't afford to buy) but to be so wildly out is unbelieveable.

                       

                      For example, I took a photo of a jet passing overhead, with (out of focus) leaves on a tree, then went in and loaded this onto my computer.  IMHO the Pentax Photo Browser showed the scene pretty much as was. After converting to jpg in Photo Lab, I loaded into PSE 8 and Office picture manager - both display consistently with the raw image displayed in Photo Browser.


                      However, when I loaded the same raw file into ACR the blue sky has a greenish tinge that I can nearly adjust out, but either way, the green leaves look muddy and the colour is weak.  If I get the leaves good, then the blue is very over saturated.  When I compromise both the blue and the green, the aluminium fuselage on the jet has a red/purple tinge.

                       

                      Some more information:  Monitor is calibrated (I borrowed a colleages Huey).  Camera and PSE are both set to Adobe RGB.  I print to a Epson R1400, with colour management handled by PSE, and the colour matches the screen very well.

                       

                      Any further advice much appreciated.

                       

                      Regards,

                      Dingo.

                      • 8. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                        JimHess-DIrcbP Level 3

                        The behavior you are describing is exactly what I would expect.  When the Photo Lab converted the image to JPEG it brought all of the cameras settings with it, and they became part of the image.  That's why the JPEG image to look normal in Elements.  I have never used Camera Raw with Elements, so I don't know just how limited it really is.  Did you try adjusting the white balance?  Did you try switching camera profiles?  All of the image data is there, I just don't know how restricted you are in Photoshop Elements.

                        • 9. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                          Level 4

                          El Dingo wrote:

                           

                          …Any further advice much appreciated…

                           

                          Short of considering the full version of Photoshop?

                           

                          Again:



                          A lot more information is needed before anyone can assist you.


                          Please  indicate the platform you are on (PC or Macintosh), the exact versions  of your OS, Photoshop, Photoshop Elements and ACR you are running, the  exact Pentax camera model(s) that generates your raw PEF or DNG files,  whether you have installed the latest camera profiles,etc.

                           

                          EDIT:  Sorry, I had missed your other post.

                           

                          Also:

                           

                          http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Camera-Adobe-Photoshop/dp/0321580133/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s =books&qid=1238313549&sr=8-1

                          • 10. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                            Level 4

                            JimHess wrote:

                             

                            … I have never used Camera Raw with Elements, so I don't know just how limited it really is…

                             

                            Pathetically so in my opinion, Jim.

                            • 11. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                              b_gossweiler Level 5

                              ACR under PSE is not THAT limited. Below is a screenshot of what's available in ACR 5.7 under PSE (sorry, can't get it to display in English). You can see that the basic development adjustments are there.

                              ACR_PSE.jpg

                               

                              Beat Gossweiler

                              Switzerland

                              • 12. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                Level 4

                                Beate,

                                 

                                Please note that the "Calibration" tab in ACR hosted by Elements is a pathetic joke.  It has been reduced to a mere Camera Profile selection tab, as it lacks all the sliders available in that tab when hosted by Photoshop.

                                 

                                Additionally, there are six (6!) tabs missing entirely:

                                 

                                1. the Tone Curve tab and its two modes,
                                2. the HSL/Grayscale tab (!),
                                3. the Split Toning tab,
                                4. the Lens Corrections tab,
                                5. the Presets tab, and
                                6. the Snapshots tab.

                                 

                                b_gossweiler wrote:

                                 

                                ACR under PSE is not THAT limited…

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Diese Behauptung ist einfach lächerlich!

                                • 13. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                  Level 4

                                  b_gossweiler wrote:

                                   

                                  ACR under PSE is not THAT limited. … You can see that the basic development adjustments are there.

                                   

                                  That's akin to saying that a bicycle has all the basic elements of a Rolls Royce just because it has wheels and it can transport you to and from the corner grocery store. 

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Wo Tai Lao Le

                                  我太老了

                                  • 14. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                    JimHess-DIrcbP Level 3

                                    Yes, but there is still a lot that can be done in Photoshop Elements/ACR.  Without seeing the image, it's difficult to really evaluate what is being seen.  And I still think that quite a few people are taken back by the way ACR initially displays raw images.  I mean, if another program will just display the images the way we think they should be, why even bother with ACR?  Working with ACR really isn't rocket science, but one initially has to invest some time understanding it and getting it set up properly for their shooting style and their camera.

                                    • 15. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                      b_gossweiler Level 5

                                      Tai Lao,

                                       

                                      Tai Lao wrote:

                                       

                                      ...

                                       

                                      Please note that the "Calibration" tab in ACR hosted by Elements is a pathetic joke. ..

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Diese Behauptung ist einfach lächerlich!

                                       

                                      Just what are you trying to tell me? I'm neither a salesman nor a defender of PSE or ACR, I'm just showing what can and what can't be done. I'm using Lightroom and not plain ACR. Please also note, that ACR 5.7 (which I was refering to) does not contain Lens Correction.

                                       

                                      So pleas don't shout at me, that's not what I need in here!

                                       

                                      Beat

                                      • 16. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                        Level 4

                                        b_gossweiler wrote:

                                         

                                        …Just what are you trying to tell me?…

                                         

                                        That your view of Elements is overly generous and excessively optimistic.  No more, no less.

                                        • 17. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                          Level 4

                                          b_gossweiler wrote:

                                           

                                          Please also note, that ACR 5.7 (which I was refering to) does not contain Lens Correction.

                                           

                                          There you are factually wrong.  Here's the Lens Correction tab in ACR 5.7:

                                           

                                          __ACR_57_Lens_Corr_Tab.jpg

                                           

                                           

                                          I cannot comment on Blightroom because I don't use it.  Tried it and hated it.

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          Wo Tai Lao Le

                                          我太老了

                                          • 18. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                            Level 4

                                            b_gossweiler wrote:

                                             

                                            …So pleas don't shout at me, that's not what I need in here!

                                             

                                             

                                            ???

                                             

                                            Where did that come from?  

                                             

                                            ???

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            Wo Tai Lao Le

                                            我太老了

                                            • 19. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                              b_gossweiler Level 5

                                              I just think you should re-think your tone.

                                               

                                              I'm out of here.

                                              • 20. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Consider posting a link to a representitive PEF that you've uploaded to www.yousendit.com so others can try it, along with the JPG coming out of the Pentax software that you are comparing it with.

                                                 

                                                The issue could be a genuine difference between the camera processing (as replicated in the Pentax software) and Adobe's interpretation of the RAW data, or it could be something strange with your system such as a corrupt monitor profile that is tinging the ACR conversion unnecessarily.

                                                 

                                                For full access to the save ACR adjustments that PSE won't allow access to, you can download the trial for LR3 from adobe and use it for 30 days.  LR does not use ACR but uses the same RAW engine with the same adjustments.

                                                • 21. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                  Level 4

                                                  What ssprengel says about providing a sample file.

                                                   

                                                  So far we are in the absolute dark about the OP's equipment and system.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                  我太老了

                                                  • 22. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                    Level 4

                                                    JimHess wrote:

                                                     

                                                    … there is still a lot that can be done in Photoshop Elements/ACR…

                                                     

                                                    Yes, and there is a lot that can be done on a bicycle.  It's just that it won't take you where you want to go as fast, as far or as comfortably as the Rolls Royce.

                                                     

                                                    In my opinion, Elements is overpriced for what it is—by about $70.  Just my own personal opinion, of course.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                    我太老了

                                                    • 23. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      I suspect the "Lens Correction" being referred to is the automatic lens correction in ACR 6.1 that uses lens profiles.

                                                       

                                                      These are silently done in ACR 6.1 under PSE if the adjustments are embedded in the XMP or DNG via LR or PS, but the UI to adjust things or even enable the automatic profiling is hidden when ACR 6.1 is used under PSE8, and only visible only in ACR hosted in PS, itself.

                                                      • 24. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        The OP said this in his first reply:

                                                         

                                                        I have a PC running Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit, PSE version 8, ACR version  6.1.0.250, Pentax K10D firmware 1.31, PEF raw files, latest camera  profiles.

                                                        • 25. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                          Level 4

                                                          ssprengel wrote:

                                                           

                                                          The OP said this in his first reply:

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Thanks.  I had totally missed post #5.

                                                           

                                                          The camera model was of interest to me because the Camera Raw team nailed the profile for the first Pentax DSLR ever, the *istD, right off the bat in ACR 2.x.  At least in the case of my particular unit, images were spot on.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          The ACR profiles for the K20D are also excellent.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                          我太老了

                                                          • 26. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                            El Dingo Level 1

                                                            OK, I have (sort of) fixed the problem (within the limitations of Elements ACR... ).

                                                             

                                                            I re-installed PSE from scratch, updated, then re-installed the ACR update from a fresh download (and replaced the 8bi file).  I also made sure that the preferences were default (as I didn't clear out the Adobe folders, and I was worried that preferences might be reatined from my previous installation).

                                                             

                                                            Opening a PEF in ACR certainly still looked a 'little' different but nowhere near as 'off' as before. Playing around with the settings, then saving these to default, gives me an acceptable result.  In my case I set to 'Camera Standard', and white balance manually set to 'daylight'.  Finally, I adjusted temperature, tint, brightness and contrast to get a good match.

                                                             

                                                            Problem fixed - many thanks to all for the help and suggestions.

                                                            • 27. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              Having Camera Standard as a default camera profile seems reasonable if you are trying to match the camera JPGs.  However I think it would be a mistake to have anything other than As Shot as a WB default if that is what you also did.

                                                              • 28. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                                JimHess-DIrcbP Level 3

                                                                I think that depends a lot on the individual's shooting style and how ACR is interpreting the files.  For me, choosing daylight as the default white balance would probably work in most situations.  It would cover most of my flash photography as well as many of my landscape images.  Some cameras seem not to interpret as well as others.  I had a Fuji at one time that the white balance really seemed to be off, and I had to choose daylight as the default.  I don't find that to be necessary with my Nikon cameras.  I have left them set to As Shot and that setting seems to work quite well.  Luckily, white balance is an easy setting to change in ACR.

                                                                • 29. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  I am pushing back to discover if and why the OP may have set Daylight as the ACR-Default Whitebalance.  There could be good reasons, or there could be bad reasons.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Colour problems when opening PEF files in ACR
                                                                    JimHess-DIrcbP Level 3

                                                                    Personally, I don't think it matters why the OP did that.  Workflow is a personal decision.  I think he has the concept of what needs to be done.  Now it's his decision to decide how he wants to implement it.  If setting white balance to daylight doesn't work for you, then don't worry about it.  If it becomes a problem for him, he will be back asking more questions.  But this is a learning process and I don't think we should interfere.