13 Replies Latest reply on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM by Gillissie

    Why the yellow "render bar"

    Shootinlife

      Okay, I admit I'm playing with something I don't fully understand.  So before I ask my question please keep the condescending comments and attitudes to a minimum, okay? LOL!  Thanks.

      Came from CS4 which I didn't probably fully understand and go the free upgrade to CS5.

      I export almost everything I do to a high quality WMV file for web delivery.  I'm sorry I don't know as I'm writing this everything about my system but it was just built 4 months ago for the purpose of editing AVCHD material with the latest windows and enough proceessor power to do so.

      Now in CS4 as long as my project settings matched the footage (ie. 720p30 footage on a 720p30 project) I could drop the file on the timeline and go.  Although for some reason on 1080p30 footage I had to open the project with a 1080i60 setting to avoid getting a red render bar at the top.  Not sure if anyone can explain that to me but it's not the purpose of this question. But all other and if I had a project with settings of 1080i60 with footage of 1080p30 it never required any rendering.  No red line, no yellow line. Well........

      In CS5, supposedly super powerful, awesome, greatest-thing-since-sliced-bread editing software, I now get a yellow render bar on EVERY clip I put on the timeline.  So now I have to render EVERYTHING before I can export to WMV???  Is this right?  Why is this happening.  Listen, I don't do the kind of stuff that you guys probably do.  I don't get into major editing, 3D effects etc etc.  I drag, drop, trim, do some transitions and titles and go.  Also, I had hoped that I'd get to export to WMV somewhere close to realtime.  CS4 wouldn't do realtime but again it was a heck of a lot faster than this CS5.  Can someone give me the CS5 for dummies answer to how I can get to import my AVCHD, drop it, go directly to edit without the need for render and export quickly in WMV?  Please?  Anyone?

        • 1. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          In CS5, supposedly super powerful, awesome, greatest-thing-since-sliced-bread editing software, I now get a yellow render bar on EVERY clip I put on the timeline.  So now I have to render EVERYTHING before I can export to WMV???  Is this right?

          A yellow bar is not an indication of needing to render; in fact, a red render bar is not an indication of needing to render. You NEVER have to render when exporting; it's an option, but a needless one. If your system is playing back the files in realtime, who cares if there's a bar and what color it is?

           

          That said, try dragging one of your clips to the New Item icon at the bottom of the Project panel:

          new-item.png

          Does the yellow bar appear now?

           

          Additionally, to fully understand the question and resolve it, we'll need to know something about the hardware in your computer, particularly the graphics card.

          • 2. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
            Shootinlife Level 1

            So what is the purpose of the render bar, whether yellow or red?  Just so I'm clear, the quality AND the time it takes to export any file to WMV will be exactly the same if I render or not?  If that's the case then we need go no further.  My graphic card is NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285.  I just though for sure that I read somewhere that you can work with anything on the timeline and pay no mind to the render bar but when you export it MUST be rendered.  If my end product after WMV export is the same quality and doesn't take any additional time to export without rendering then I'm all good.    

            • 3. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Rendering is only for preview purposes.

               

              1. No bar means easy codec, timeline plays RT without rendering.

               

              2. Yellow bar means difficult codec, timeline likely plays RT without rendering, depending on the speed of the PC.

               

              3. Red bar means that for RT playback of the timeline, rendering likely is required.

               

              4. Green means the timeline is rendered.

               

              Rendering has no effect on the quality of the export, because you encode to a different format.

              • 4. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                the quality AND the time it takes to export any file to WMV will be exactly the same if I render or not?

                 

                Correct.

                 

                 

                what is the purpose of the render bar, whether yellow or red?

                 

                Yellow means it possibly won't play in real time if you're going out to tape.  You may want to render first.  Red means probably won't play real time going out to tape, you should definitely render first.

                 

                Both scenarios only apply when going real time out to tape.  For exports, renders are never 'needed'.

                • 5. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  OK, you have the ability to use hardware Mercury Playback Engine. Go to Project > Project Settings > General, and look under Video Rendering and Playback. If it's not already, set the dropdown to "Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration." The yellow bar is usually an indicator of footage that doesn't match the sequence preset, but will still likely playback in realtime, and in my experience, it shows up with hardware MPE is enabled for some footage types. Rendering within Premiere is just for realtime preview playback within the application--so if you're yellow or no bar, you're good, and most times with a decent computer, you're realtime with red, too. Read here for more information on this topic.

                   

                  Just so I'm clear, the quality AND the time it takes to export any file to WMV will be exactly the same if I render or not?    

                   

                  The quality will be better, the time will likely be a little longer, assuming you have the export settings set to Use Preview Files for the rendered files. However, you need to account for the time it takes to actually render; in that case, it's probably a wash. Again, if you have realtime preview from your sequence, you will see no benefit in taking the time and space to render previews.

                  I just though for sure that I read somewhere that you can work with anything on the timeline and pay no mind to the render bar but when you export it MUST be rendered.

                  Only if you're exporting to tape, which you're not. So just pay no mind to the render bar. Bear in mind that "rendering" and "exporting" are two different things... by its very nature, "exporting" already involves "rendering" so doing it twice offers no benefit;.

                  • 6. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                    Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    CS5 Help, searched "yellow bar," and got this result which answers some of your questions:

                     

                    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premierepro/cs/using/WS1c9bc5c2e465a58a91cf0b1038518aef7-7cd7a .html

                     

                    It says "Regardless of their preview quality, sections under either red or yellow render bars should be rendered before you export them to tape." which implies to me that export to other than TAPE does not or may not require rendering.

                     

                    BTW, I am not listing the words I searched by to suggest you didn't do something you should have.  I am always curious about how easy or hard it is to find relevant info.  Todd Kopriva has improved the PR documentation, and, in this instance, the info was easy to find.  (Yellow bar, yellow render bar, and just plain "yellow" find the relevant content high in this list.)

                     

                    Edit: 3 responses before I got this out!

                    • 7. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                      Shootinlife Level 1

                      Okay, again just so I understand this correctly and I'm really honestly not trying to be a jerk.  But based on what you just said, you're telling me that something that was "easy" for CS4 (ie. I never had any render bars so long as the settings matched the footage in terms of resolution, except for the 1080p which no one can seem to explain to me) is now not-so-easy for CS5?  Again, I'm really and truly not trying to be antagonistic I just am trying to see what it is that was beneficial about CS5.  In CS4 it could handle it, no render bars=easy.  CS5 not so much, yellow render bars=difficult.  Because when I watch video in the preview on CS4 it looked fine.  On CS5 it looks blochy until I render.

                      Oh and while you guys are being generous, which I do so very much appreciate.  Why is it that CS5 now takes me over and hour.....AN HOUR....to export a 10 minute test video segment to WMV.  Settings are two pass encode, 3000kbps, 128 audio at 1280x720.  Again, CS4, not that long.  I realize I don't know anywhere close to what you guys do about this stuff, but wasn't CS5 supposed to be more powerful?  Shouldn't it simply be able to things faster?  Isn't that really what most all of us look for is increased productivity and faster workflow?  If anyone here knows of some type of hard ware or software acceleration that can reach realtime export to things like WMV I'd love to hear about it.  But please, I feel like I've already been sold a bill of goods by the guys that built this system so recommendations need to come from experience.  If you "read somewhere" that something will do it that's not going to really do it for me.  Anyone that has it, used it, whatever it may be, that can do realtime export to high quality WMV files please, I'd love to hear from you.  Thanks everyone, you guys are patient and kind.

                      • 8. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                        Shootinlife Level 1

                        Colin, you have brought up something that I cannot seem to figure out but suspected to be true.  You said that the bar is likely due to a mismatch of footage and settings.  What am I missing?  If have a file shot off my HMC150 that I shot in 1080/30p and I select that in the settings I still get the bar.  I'm always very careful to make sure the settings match the video I shot.  Is there another variable that I am missing here?  In CS4 I actually never had it EXCEPT in 1080/30p.  I would shoot it in that resolution but when I used that project setting it would give me a RED bar in CS4.  Conversely if I had 720/30p or even 720/60p and I had the settings to match......no bars.  No red, no yellow (well I never saw yellow in CS4 at all but whatever) no nothing.  This ONLY happened in CS4 with 1080/30p.  If I changed the settings to 1080/60i it would drop on the line with no render bars but that's not the right setting?  I'm so confused.  The only reason I'm asking this is because I'm seriously thinking of going back to CS4 as my export to WMV type files was FASTER.  None of this makes any sense to me.  I'm not well versed in this stuff but I'm not stupid.  There is nothing logical about this.  Shoot one type of material and match the settings no render, shoot another (ie. 1080/30p) and match the settings......nope.....red render bar.  What?  Sorry for the rant but it does not need to be this illogical.

                        • 9. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          Did you do what I said above and drop a clip onto the New Item icon?


                          • 10. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            The New Item button will give also the yellow line for AVCHD clips (.MTS or .m2ts), which OP is editing.

                            If the editing machine is powerfull enough no rendering is required for playback.

                            No need to render timeline either before exporting to WMV.

                            • 11. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                              Gillissie Level 1

                              I'm new to Premiere but not new to digital video production, including 3D animation.

                               

                              It seems to me that people (and maybe Premiere's terminology) are being sort of misleading here. People say you don't have to render in order to export, but exporting IS rendering. That's part of the reason a 10 minute video takes an hour to export. It has to render. Any time you take the source files as input, combine them with all your effects, etc. and output them to some other format, that is rendering. It doesn't matter what program you're using, that's what it is called in generic terms.

                               

                              Now, if people say you have to "render" a preview, then that is different than rendering the final (or "exporting"), but they are both rendering. There is a reason After Effects and Media Encoder call it the "Render Queue".

                               

                              To answer your question about accelerating the export, I don't know about WMV format, but the video cards with CUDA support (such as yours) are supposed to have h.264 encoding acceleration. That speeds up the export process when it comes to compressing the images for the output file, but it won't speed up the rendering of the images before saving them. That is primarily your CPU speed.

                              • 12. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                the video cards with CUDA support (such as yours) are supposed to have h.264 encoding acceleration. That speeds up the export process when it comes to compressing the images for the output file, but it won't speed up the rendering of the images before saving them. That is primarily your CPU speed.

                                That's actually backwards from how the MPE works.  With the MPE, there is *no* H.264 encoding acceleration even with a supported CUDA card.  It's all CPU.  But with the GPU-accelerated MPE, all accelerated effects are rendered by the GPU, relieving your CPU of the chore and freeing up more cycles for CPU encoding.

                                 

                                -Jeff

                                • 13. Re: Why the yellow "render bar"
                                  Gillissie Level 1

                                  Jeff Bellune,

                                   

                                  Check out the "VIDEO ENCODING" video clip at this url: http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_PremiereproCS5.html

                                   

                                  It claims h.264 encoding acceleration. If that's not true then somebody is lying big time.