15 Replies Latest reply on Nov 30, 2010 4:28 AM by warungu26

    Audio Lagging in PP CS5

    DocZoomer

      Just built a new system I7-980x, FX4800, 12G Ram.  When I capture HDV footage from my Sony Z5U camcorder, I use the HDV 1080i 60 preset.

      The audio and video line up ok, but on longer clips the audio falls out of sync and I have to re adjust it about every 5 minutes.  The files are MPEG.

      I do notice every now and then a red flash on the screen, like a dropped frame, could this be my problem?  I'm not sure if it is a camera export issue or a PP import issue or a setting that needs tweeking?  Any ideas?

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Try HDVSplit instead. This has always been a weak point with PR. I don't know if using scene detection will help you solve it.

          • 2. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
            DocZoomer Level 1

            I would have thought Adobe would have this problem fixed, any other ideas?


            • 3. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              Use I-frame only media - DV, DVCPRO HD, AVC-I, R3D.

              • 4. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                DocZoomer Level 1

                So I should throw away my Z5U camera?


                • 5. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  If you seriously consider that, please drop it very gently on my doorstep.

                  • 6. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                    DocZoomer Level 1

                    So am I doing everything right with the 1080i (60) preset and importing the footage as mpeg?  Is there any other way?

                    Thanks!

                    Greg

                    • 7. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      So I should throw away my Z5U camera?


                       

                      Noooooo.  Don't be silly.

                       

                      You trade it in.

                      • 8. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                        shooternz Level 6

                        http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-HVRZ5U/

                         

                        Looking at the specs of your camera it has a range of shooting format options.

                         

                        (Even some to suit Jim Simon who would probably trade what  you got for what he's got immediately..if you threw in a NAS, some current OS's, and a Gigabyte Switcher...oh ...and a Red Camera)  

                         

                        However...have you tried dropping a clip from your chosen format directly onto the NEW ITEM Icon (bottom of project bin)  to see what sequence PPRO suggests is accurately matching your footage.

                         

                        Cant think of a PPRO setting that resolves a drifting synch issue or why the capture method would be at fault.

                         

                        What sound card are you using and are the drivers up to date?

                        • 9. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                          DocZoomer Level 1

                          I tried dropping a clip into the new sequence tab and the preset came out the same and I still had the lagging problem.  From what I'm learing is if you have any dropped frames it shifts the audio all the way down the time line and there seems to be a few drop outs as I get the red screen every now and then.  The good thing is I am now shooting on the memory card only and all the clips will be small and won't wander, just makes it hard to edit last years video.  The motherboard/audio card is the latest Gigabyte high end unit with all the latest drivers installed as we just built the system 2 weeks ago.

                          Kinda nice to edit HD footage without all the rendering!  My old system had to grind about 3 minutes to watch a 30 sec AVCHD clip, the new system we stacked 10 layers deep and it didn't even phase it!  I am also running a 256GB SSD, 4TB Raid 0 for video and the FX4800 card with intermittant windshield wipers.  Now if I could only figure out the st st st stu stud studd studdering pro prob probb problem!

                          Thanks for your help!

                          Greg

                          • 10. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                            warungu26

                            Dropped frames will always cause an audio lag in PPR CS series. but in my experience ever since I started using PP CS3 I experience audio lags for clips that captured for more than 12 minutes even with no dropped frames!!

                             

                            I upgraded to CS4 and now CS5 and the same problem remains. So My recommendation is capture your HDV clips in 12 minute intervals and this should resolve your audio lag problem. I think this is a problem with the HDV Codec. I would also check if your original footage has any dropped frames and if the dropped frames do not exist in your original footage, then I suggest you re-capture your footage again.

                             

                            On the dropped frame subject I also noticed if my Sony Z1U had dropped frames on tape in HDV format, if I down converted the same footage the dropped frames would disappear in Standard definition!!

                             

                            I hope this helps as I have been in your postion many times.

                            • 11. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                              thenoisystuff Level 1

                              The problem is almost certainly not Adobe's but probably resides in your camera (and most cameras for that matter)

                               

                              When you start and stop your camcorder the timecode jam-syncs so that it picks up where you left off on the last shot.  Most of the time this works perfectly.  I say mostly because there are limitations.  If you power down the camera (to change the battery or go for lunch) there's the risk the jam-sync might just get a little compromised.  You then get frame discepencies.

                               

                              Harm is right in that PPro, because of it's lack of scene detection, simply records the code whether it's good or not.  You can then get audio/video sync problems.

                               

                              If you wish to do everything within PPro as opposed to using a third party utility like HDV Split you should log first and then batch capture.  If you have already digitised then you need to go through your material carefully and manually re-sync anything that is out.  This may seem daunting but it may not be so.  It depends on how many bum edits the camera has made.

                               

                              Personally I find HDV Split excellent for capture - but not for splitting after capture as is loses the original timecode when creating individual files.

                              • 12. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                                UNRKen Level 1

                                Like others have mentioned, I've had this exact issue starting with CS3,CS4 and now CS5.

                                 

                                The symptoms (if an audio sync issue is present):


                                - Captured HDV video (Sony HDR-HC3) via premiere's capture utility - single file - entire 62 minute tape

                                - No dropped frames detected by premiere (although drops occurred - see below) - no red scene inserted.

                                - Captured video always plays fine (audio in sync) if played in windows media player, VLC, etc. etc.

                                 

                                If there were dropped frames in the 62 minute file (again these are not detected during capture):

                                -  audio will progressively be more out of sync when dropped into premiere timeline. (that is - it will be in sync until the first drop, but by the end of file it may be 4 seconds out.

                                - Side note - 62 minute tape had 8 dropped frames detected (if captured via HDVsplit).

                                 

                                The issue (as others have posted), is that premiere is doing a lousy job of detecting these drops.  It simply puts together the (now shorter) video on top of the original audio.  Hence the sync issue.

                                 

                                Quick Fixes:

                                1. Capture video first in HDVsplit.  Have it stop if frames are dropped (if you don't select this option - then it will behave as above - 62 file with drops).
                                       Works 100% of the time for me.  Drop these shorter ("non-dropped" frame) files into premiere.

                                2. If you already have a single file captured w/drop issues (like the 62 minute file I have above).  Do this:

                                     - Open that file up in HDVsplit
                                     - Have it generate new files on scene detection breaks

                                     - These generated files will be in sync  when dropped into premiere for editing 

                                 

                                This last approach is much faster then trying to resync these manually on the premiere timeline.

                                 

                                Ken

                                • 13. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                                  firetrak Level 1

                                  You'll probably notice that once you capture it and try to play it outside of premiere pro there is no lag. Usually it occurs if you constantly stopped and started the camera, so the tape has a whole bunch of cuts.

                                   

                                  Every one of these cuts pushes the audio and video out of sync.

                                   

                                  I used to have this issue all the time with premire pro cs3 and 2, but so far cs5 handles this far better.

                                   

                                  There are a few things i've found that helps, onces captured:

                                   

                                  • Delete all your cache files
                                  • Restart the pc and premiere pro and freshly import the video, dont touch the machine in anyway whilsts its indexing and conforming, if its doing that. try now, does it work, great... no then
                                  • Try cineform, they have an add-on that captures the file as an almost lossless avi, it is huge, i warn you, but this solved my issues until i upgraded to cs5
                                  • 14. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                                    UNRKen Level 1

                                    Hey Firetak,

                                     

                                    "You'll probably notice that once you capture it and try to play it  outside of premiere pro there is no lag. Usually it occurs if you  constantly stopped and started the camera, so the tape has a whole bunch  of cuts. Every one of these cuts pushes the audio and video out of sync."

                                     

                                    100% dead-on.  The footage I'm working with may have 30 "stops" in a 60 minute tape.


                                    "There are a few things i've found that helps, onces captured:

                                     

                                    • Delete all your cache files
                                    • Restart  the pc and premiere pro and freshly import the video, dont touch the  machine in anyway whilsts its indexing and conforming, if its doing  that. try now, does it work, great... no then
                                    • Try cineform, they  have an add-on that captures the file as an almost lossless avi, it is  huge, i warn you, but this solved my issues until i upgraded to cs5"

                                     

                                    The issue I posted above is not one a bad cache/import process (for my situation), as I can reproduce it 100% of the time with a new CS5 project/capture even when I capture the entire clip (again) using HDVsplit.  My issue is 100% related to a hardware capture issue (tape+hdv camera) >> CS5 timeline.

                                     

                                    The issue is with the miniHD tape having a hiccup (probably realated to original camera head being dirty).  At any rate...my "fix" (posted above) of having HDV split the captured file into segments has saved me.

                                     

                                    Also - capturing again this weekend using my new GV-HD700 deck - will be interesting to see if that resolves it.

                                     

                                    ken

                                    • 15. Re: Audio Lagging in PP CS5
                                      warungu26 Level 1

                                      Hi Ken

                                       

                                      I totally agree with your work flow, I now use Cine form to capture and split

                                      the footage where there are scene changes. This work flow has completely fixed

                                      the lag issue and in addition my final projects look far much better than they

                                      ever did before I used the Cine form intermediate files (Similar to Apple pro

                                      Res files on apple based machines using final cut). I suppose the down side as

                                      you mentioned Ken is that Cine form avi files are huge but this is a small price

                                      to pay for a work flow that works and gets the job done with a professional end

                                      product.