8 Replies Latest reply on Feb 22, 2011 7:21 AM by craulmedia

    CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?

    SiliconPixel Level 1

      Is there a known bug in CS5 with the way 3D layers are pre-comped and then displayed in a master comp?

       

      I'm having a nightmare with the 3D of a pre-comp working and then suddenly (apparently) stopping working and the pre-comp reverting to a 2D layer.

       

      What I did is import an .AI file with 30 odd layers - set each as 3D, distributed these in z space by using an expression on each layer. Then I pre-comped these layers and added a camera. At first I can see the 3D nature of the layers when using the camera tool. Then at some point the pre-comp seems to suddenly get treated as a single 2D layer!

       

      I tried turning the pre-comp layer's 3D switch and collapse transformation switch on/off but it doesn't make any difference.

       

      What did make a difference once was setting the camera from single to two node - but it then stopped working again a minute or so after and when dollying with the camera tool.

       

      Any ideas?

        • 1. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          Is there a known bug in CS5 with the way 3D layers are pre-comped and then displayed in a master comp?

           

          No. Please provide more info! The issue could simply be related to insufficient OpenGL resources/ misconfigured drivers. Similarly, we need to know about what's going on in your main comp. You could be using adjustment layers or layer styles on some elements and naturally, then the 3D-ishness would break based on the render order when any such element overlaps with your pre-comp, which is perfectly normal. Could be several other combinations of things as well, but without any more info, this isn't going anywhere and only ends up in pointless guesswork.

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
            SiliconPixel Level 1

            Definately something fishy going on here.

             

            I re-created the project to see if I could track down what was causing the problem and so far, it's been behaving as expected.

             

            Then I went back to the misbehaving project and it too is now working OK (at the moment).

             

            I did also restart AE when I was having the problem - but it didn't clear the problem.

             

            Odd.

            • 3. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
              Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

              Did you use the disk cache? If so, you might have seen some wrongly cached frames. That would point to problems with the drive that hosts the cache. Either its not fast enough or fragmented, causing delays...

               

              Mylenium

              • 4. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
                SiliconPixel Level 1

                I wonder if it was OpenGL related then.

                 

                I have recently upgraded this PC to an i7 980x 6 core with 24Gb of RAM + nVidia GTX 480 (1500MB). Windows 7 64 bit - fresh install last week. Latest nVidia drivers with 2 x 1920x1200 displays. No tweaks or changes to the nVidia drivers or OpenGL settings etc.

                 

                AE OpenGL texture memory was set to the default (200MB IIRC) - in the course of my experiments, I did set it to 1Gb - so I wonder if that would have helped. I shall try setting it back and see if the problem returns.

                 

                The AI file is quite complex and has 52 layers. I imported it as a comp set to retain layer size. Initial comp size was very large at 9000x1418. I then pre-composed all the layers and then set the comp to HD 1920x1080.

                 

                As it's now working OK at the moment, I shall continue to work with this projectr and see if the issue returns.

                 

                Thanks,

                 

                Paul.

                • 5. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
                  SiliconPixel Level 1

                  Re disk cache - yes, it is turned on - I'll add that to the list of items to check if the problem does return.

                   

                   

                  Thanks for the pointer.

                  • 6. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
                    SiliconPixel Level 1

                    I'm also seeing some of the layers disappearing in the main comp view - selecting the camera tool and moving it makes them re-appear until the tool drag is stopped when they'll disappear again. Setting each layer to continuously rasterise in the pre-comp fixes that. still shouldn't happen though.

                     

                    The AI file was saved as CS5. Have tried CS4 export which *seems* better so far.

                    • 7. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
                      Aldo Smit

                      Hi there,

                       

                      For all of you who ran into this problem, this is the way to make it work.

                       

                      First: Set up your 3D comp, regardless the amount of layers.

                      Second: Precompose your comp.

                      Third: Now your comp is as flat as a postcard. So you will have to enable 2 switches: First enable the 3d switch, second enable the little 'sun' switch, located next to your 'Shy' switch.

                       

                      Depending on your computers hardware configuration, make sure OpenGL is enabled and toggle trough the 'fast preview' button (located above your timeline, the button that let's you choose between Wireframe, OpenGL, Adaptive Resolution etc).

                       

                      Strange enough, the whole thing slows down your previews, and even (when you choose the wrong option in your 'fast preview' button) this method screws up your 3D layer order. This is solved when you have the right preview setting though.

                       

                      Anyway,

                       

                      You now have your pre-comp in 3D back again.

                       

                      I hope this helps some of you guy's out!

                       

                      Greetz from Amsterdam.

                       

                      Aldo Smit

                      Creative Producer

                      www.beyondanimation.nl

                      • 8. Re: CS5 3D and pre-comp/collapse transformations - bug?
                        craulmedia Level 1

                        the real solution!

                         

                        getting rid of the collapse transformation switch at all!

                        and of that nasty precomposing!

                         

                        here is what CT exactly does

                        http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/8.0/help.html?content=WS064964FC-424C-4e5a-A5 C3-2160B3DFBCA4.html

                         

                        and in most cases it creates only confusion.

                        Same as precomposing, which does not work accurate in AE.

                        Why? Just because a precomposition is what it says: an altered copy of the original source.

                         

                        There was an article (which i cannot find again at the moment) from a industry known motion graphics/VFX artist who compares various compositing software and he exactly pointetd out on that precomposing-issue in Ae.

                         

                        I have been in several situations where i had to work on pixel-perfect and sharp imaginary and found out that precomposing does not work accurate!

                        By "not accurate" i mean that you have slight distortion and blur occuring on your precomposed images, CT-Switch off or on, it does not make any difference and i've tried to get the image right for several days, trying any switches, settings, tricks, ANYTHING! did not help.

                         

                        And the part about CT and 3D layers is another written story!