1 2 Previous Next 55 Replies Latest reply on Jul 30, 2010 4:10 AM by Donald Pye

    Colored lines in the highlights

    Donald Pye

      Hello All,

       

      As you can see I am getting these lines in the white highlights.  Have no idea way.

       

      Photoshop CS3,  Camera Raw 4.6,  Mac G4,  OS 10.4.11

       

      Will get same result from Nikon D70 and Nikon D90.

       

      Used PS Elements several years ago without this issue.

       

      Thanks

      Don

       

      Horse2.jpg

        • 1. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
          Yammer Level 4

          You've boosted the exposure of a strongly-backlit scene. I'm guessing the windows are blown out, and the blue is the result. Any chance of seeing the raw file?

          • 2. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
            Donald Pye Level 1

            Thanks for your response Yammer P.

             

            Even if I reduce the exposure in Raw the lines remain.  I get these artifacts in any specular highlights in a product shot.  Although, those are easy to retouch out even though it does take time.

             

            I can upload the raw file no problem.

             

            Do I upload the raw file in the same manner as the jpeg file.  Will it be viewable?

             

            Don

            • 3. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Upload the RAW file to www.YouSendIt.com and post the download link it gives at the end of the process.

              • 4. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                Yammer Level 4

                Donald Pye wrote:

                 

                Even if I reduce the exposure in Raw the lines remain.  I get these artifacts in any specular highlights in a product shot.  Although, those are easy to retouch out even though it does take time.

                 

                Strong colours in highlights are usually a result of clipped channels. Your Camera Raw setup will show this. If we can see the raw file itself, we can determine if the colour is in the raw data, or it is a result of the software, version, or the settings you are using.

                • 5. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                  Donald Pye Level 1

                  It looks like you have to have a paid account with them to store the image there.  Is that right?  If that's so there must be another way to do this.

                   

                  Don

                  • 6. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                    Vit Novak Level 3

                    I didn't use that site, but it looks like you have to register before sending files. Anyway, there are other sites you can use, that don't need registration, like www.hotfile.com, www.rapidshare.com etc

                    • 7. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      YouSendIt needs registration, but is reasonably friendly for those trying to download the files.  I recommended it for this reason.

                       

                      RapidShare and HotFile are easier to upload with, but is painful for those wanting to download.

                      • 8. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                        Donald Pye Level 1

                        I did register and can see where to put my email and how to select the file but, I have to enter an email to whom I'm sending it to.  I don't know what to enter in there.

                        • 9. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Send it to yourself.  Post the link you receive.

                          • 10. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                            Donald Pye Level 1

                            Sorry for getting so side track here.

                             

                            Anyway here is the link to the raw file.

                             

                            https://www.yousendit.com/download/T1VtcmxjR3NveE0wTVE9PQ

                            https://www.yousendit.com/download/T1VtcmxjR3NveE0wTVE9PQ

                            • 11. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                              Noel Carboni Level 7

                              Doesn't happen for me here using CS3 / ACR 4.6.0.30 / Windows Vista x64, or CS5 / ACR 6.1 / Windows 7 x64.

                               

                              NoColoredLines.jpg

                               

                              I thought at first maybe you were seeing the highlight warning, but that's red and it doesn't look at all like what you posted.

                               

                              Notably those bright windows all seem to have vertical divisions in them, from what I see when I drag the Exposure slider all the way down.  Looks like under some condition you're getting some kind of math overflow, and there's some information in the file, perhaps in only one channel.

                               

                              I think the next logical step might be to list all your settings.

                               

                              -Noel

                              • 12. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I see no colored-lines when I look at, and even severely manipulate, this photograph in Lightroom 3.0, which has the equivalent of and ACR 6.1 RAW engine built in.

                                 

                                What version of ACR and what camera profile are you using when you see these?

                                • 13. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                  Donald Pye Level 1

                                  I'm using CS3 with ACR 4.6 on Mac OS 10.4 and I get the image like the one in my first post.

                                  • 14. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    The "windows" of the building appear to be covered with mostly transparent corrugated fiberglass, the texture of which is visible where the trees are outside, but with the current Adobe RAW-engine the rest of the window area is clipped to white no matter what settings are used.  I suspect there is a corrupt or at least Beta version of the camera profile being used where the channels do not go all the way to white, so we're seeing gradations of color, perhaps posterized blue sky, as seen through the corrugation, because there is a slight bit of detail that is not being recovered in the current version of the Adobe RAW engine.

                                     

                                    Uploading and posting a link to a DNG version of the NEF that has the settings included would be an alternative to posting all the settings.

                                    • 15. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      ACR 4.6 is the first version of ACR that supported your camera and I suspect the version of the built-in camera profile is bad.

                                       

                                      I see references to people downloading an ACR 4.6.1 update, but I don't find a link to it, anywhere, so maybe it was a typo and they meant 4.4.1.

                                       

                                      You might try re-updating to ACR 4.6 and see if anything changes:

                                      ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/photoshop/cameraraw/

                                      • 16. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                        Yammer Level 4

                                        This is a strange one. It looks fine in 6.1, even with process 2003 and your ACR settings in place (stolen from the above image's exif). The stripes in the window appear to be coincidental to the fact that the window is corrugated, and most of the window is blown anyway. My first thought was a corrupt camera profile, but then your D700 should be fine (as it uses a different profile), so I'd be inclined to think there is a problem with your copy of camera raw.

                                         

                                        4.6 is the last version of ACR for CS3. It may be worth downloading and installing it again, from:

                                        http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4039

                                         

                                        You may also want to check out the Camera Profiles package which works with ACR 4.5+. They are better than the old numbered camera profiles. I'm not sure where you get the Mac version from, maybe here:

                                        http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?event=custom&sku=FS0000085&e=labs_camer aprofiles

                                         

                                        or they might be included with DNG Converter 6.1 for Mac

                                        http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4723

                                         

                                        (sorry, I'm not a Mac person)

                                        • 17. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                          Yammer Level 4

                                          I should maybe add that the described manual installation may be better, and that you should make damned sure that there are no other copies of ACR loitering about on your system drive.

                                          • 18. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                            Noel Carboni Level 7
                                            function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                            ssprengel wrote:


                                            ACR 4.6 is the first version of ACR that supported your camera and I suspect the version of the built-in camera profile is bad.


                                            I also did a successful conversion without the blue stripes on 4.6 - on a Windows Vista system.

                                             

                                            I think it's more likely a software glitch in the Mac 4.6 build.

                                             

                                            -Noel

                                            • 19. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                              ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Labs is the WRONG place to get the camera profiles from because they are beta on labs and could actually be the problem, now.

                                               

                                              Installing the DNG Converter is the RIGHT thing to do.

                                              • 20. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                Yammer Level 4

                                                ssprengel wrote:

                                                 

                                                Labs is the WRONG place to get the camera profiles from because they are beta on labs and could actually be the problem, now.

                                                 

                                                Installing the DNG Converter is the RIGHT thing to do.

                                                I wasn't sure if Camera Profiles were included with the Mac DNG Converter 6.1 download. If not, I'm sure the B2 profiles would work okay. The OP was using the old numbered profiles (according to the EXIF).

                                                • 21. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                  Vit Novak Level 3

                                                  If there is an error in the profile, then calibration setting ACR 3.x or 4.x wouldn't produce this issue, as it uses color matrices built in ACR instead of external profile

                                                   

                                                  To me, it looks like error in this version of ACR (unfortunately I don't have it and I'm on the Windows platform). With ACR 5.7 on Windows, it's ok

                                                   

                                                  I would advise converting nef to dng with one of the latest versions of Dng converter to see if the problem persist, and then trying it with embeded profile and some external profiles

                                                  • 22. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                    Level 4

                                                    There's just no way to reproduce your weird result, Donald.

                                                     

                                                    I've downloaded your raw image, quit CS4, launched CS3 and opened the image in ACR 4.6.  No matter what I do to the adjustment controls in AXCR 4.6, I cannot get the lines or the cyan zone or the lines.  I'm running Photoshop on a Mac under Tiger 10.4.11.

                                                     

                                                    Here's the ACR 4.6 rendering with Auto settings:

                                                    _DSC_0032.jpg

                                                     

                                                    Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                    我太老了

                                                    • 23. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                      Level 4

                                                      Oh, and yes, the highlights are totally blown in all three channels of your image.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                      我太老了

                                                      • 24. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                        Donald Pye Level 1

                                                        Hi Everyone;

                                                         

                                                        Thank you so much for all your replies. You guys have been great.

                                                         

                                                        I've tried many different things but keep getting the same results even using the DNG converter.

                                                         

                                                        I pulled up my old Photo Elements 3 with  ACR 3.4 and opened the image from the DNG conversion and got a clean image.

                                                         

                                                        Need another coffee!!

                                                         

                                                        (FYI) When I look at the histogram at the top of the raw window  (4.6)  and move the exposure further to the left (darkening) it shows three separate single line spikes to the far right.  Don't know why they would appear.   In the PS Elements these spikes don't appear.

                                                         

                                                        There is something I must be doing wrong here, but I don't know what.

                                                        • 25. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          The separate spikes for channels that should be clipped and therefore white, is a symptom of a beta ACR engine and/or beta camera profile.  I remember this happened with the 7D when its ACR support was still in beta, but don't recall, specifically, if it was an engine problem or a profile problem.

                                                           

                                                          I think it is bad luck that your camera was only supported in the last version of ACR that came with CS3, ACR 4.6, so there isn't any hope of updating to a newer ACR that works with CS3--unless you have a beta ACR or beta profile, somehow, but if you've updated to the latest ACR 4.6 available from Adobe, I doubt that is the problem.

                                                           

                                                          I think your only recourse may be to update to the current version of Photoshop or perhaps get Lightroom 3, both of which cost $300-ish...where I'd recommend Lightroom, over updating Photoshop, but your hardware has to be Intel for CS5 or LR3, and I don't remember what you said you had since I'm replying via e-mail not the web-forum.

                                                          • 26. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                            Donald Pye Level 1

                                                            The problem is not exclusive to the Nikon D90.  I can also get the same results from my older Nikon D70.  Which suggests to me also that it's the ACR 4.6.

                                                            • 27. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                              Yammer Level 4

                                                              Donald, did you download and reinstall 4.6 again?


                                                              • 28. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                Donald Pye Level 1

                                                                Yes, I have done this several times.

                                                                • 29. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                  Noel Carboni Level 7

                                                                  Please allow me to ask a very specific question:

                                                                   

                                                                  What, exactly, have you chosen for the Camera Profile, in the field shown here:

                                                                   

                                                                  CameraProfile.jpg

                                                                  .

                                                                   

                                                                  A second question:  Does the problem change if you select a different one?

                                                                   

                                                                  -Noel

                                                                  • 30. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                    Donald Pye Level 1

                                                                    It shows exactly what you have shown, ACR 4.6.  Exactly how many profiles are suppose to show up in that drop done menu?

                                                                    • 31. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      Judging from the size of the ZIP files for ACR Windows updates, I'd say the first ACR that included camera profiles was ACR 5.2, not ACR 4.5 as someone said. 

                                                                       

                                                                      ACR 4.6's update is 3.5MB  (32-bit only)

                                                                      ACR 5.1's update is 7.6 MB (32-bit and 64-bit)

                                                                      ACR 5.2's update is 35.1MB (32-bit, 64-bit, Camera Profiles)

                                                                       

                                                                      The size of the Mac version also jumps considerably at ACR 5.2, but (I assume) there is no duplicate 32-bit and 64-bit version of the plugin at ACR 5.1 on the Mac so it is similar size to ACR 4.6.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                        Yammer Level 4

                                                                        ssprengel wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        Judging from the size of the ZIP files for ACR Windows updates, I'd say the first ACR that included camera profiles was ACR 5.2, not ACR 4.5 as someone said. 

                                                                        4.5 did support camera profiles, which were available separately as beta from the labs website for the rest of the v4 releases.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          I guess that could be since they came out in Oct 2008 and ACR 4.6 came out after that.  If the OP is not seeing any camera profiles in the dropdown under Camera Calibration then perhaps the ones that come with the DNG Converter are put into a different location.

                                                                           

                                                                          Since I am the one who posted that the beta profiles should not be used, I'll re-post a link that they can be downloaded from:

                                                                          http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5Fcameraprofiles

                                                                          • 34. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                            Level 4

                                                                            Donald,

                                                                             

                                                                            One thing to check is that you do NOT have a Nikon software plug-in installed.  The Nikon software used to have a nasty habit of installing the Nikon plug-in behind your back, without your knowledge and consent, when you installed the Nikon software.  That Nikon plug-in interferes with the Adobe Camera Raw plug-in.

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                                            我太老了m

                                                                            • 35. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                              Yammer Level 4

                                                                              ssprengel wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              I guess that could be since they came out in Oct 2008 and ACR 4.6 came out after that.

                                                                              Honest, I do know what I'm talking about

                                                                               

                                                                              ACR 4.5 was the earliest version required to make use of the beta camera profiles, available on the Labs website. The DNG Profile Editor was released at the same time, so that users could make their own camera profiles. I think this was about July 2008. I remember it well, because I was over the moon about it. The Beta2 prfofiles came out a few months later.

                                                                               

                                                                              I suggested the beta profiles because I know that they worked with 4.5/4.6, because I used them at the time. A lot of people wouldn't have known they existed unless they read the forums. It wasn't until v5 that the non-beta profiles shipped with ACR and DNGC.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                                Yammer Level 4

                                                                                By the way, you can read more about it here:

                                                                                http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles

                                                                                • 37. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                  Yes, I believe you, and had originally, until the OP seemed to indicate there were no extra profiles even though the DNG Converter was installed and would have included them.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I re-installed the Beta2 profiles on my computer just to see what they were called, and it appears they all have "beta" in their filename and their ACR-Drop-down-list name so their existence should be easiy enough to confirm.  On Windows they are installed into similar places as the non-beta ones, although sometimes the folder they are in includes Beta to make it distinct from the non-beta versions.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Of course trying all these D90 beta profiles in LR3 on Windows does not show the issue, either.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  YammerP, do you know if the profiles were compatible with the Mac version of ACR 4.5/4.6 or just the Windows version?  If not that could explain why there are no profiles visible.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Could the OP clarify they indeed ONLY see the ACR 4.6 profile name in the Camera Profile drop-down-list, and not just that the ACR 4.6 is the current one selected?

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                                    Level 4

                                                                                    ssprengel wrote:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Yes, I believe you, and had originally, until the OP seemed to indicate there were no extra profiles even though the DNG Converter was installed and would have included them.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    He should install the current version of the DNG Converter (6.x) not an older version.  Hope that was understood.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    And he should check for the nefarious Nikon plug-in.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                                                    我太老了

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Colored lines in the highlights
                                                                                      Noel Carboni Level 7
                                                                                      function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                                                      function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                                                      Donald Pye wrote:


                                                                                      It shows exactly what you have shown, ACR 4.6.  Exactly how many profiles are suppose to show up in that drop done menu?

                                                                                       

                                                                                      As evidenced by the above, "supposed to show up" is a difficult thing to nail down.  They can be downloaded and later versions of Photoshop bring more of them, which then show up in older versions.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      My CS3 with ACR 4.6 shows this:

                                                                                      AllProfiles.jpg

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I take it from your question that you are not seeing any other profiles in there.  I did download beta profiles at one time (evidenced by the "beta" nomenclature), but ACR 4.6 came with Photoshop. I'm thinking that on all our systems where it works okay an earlier, faulty profile may have been overwritten with a new, improved copy of the same name by a later version of Photoshop, however, as all these profile files go in the same place.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Something to try:  Find copies (possibly on the Adobe Labs site) of newer Camera Raw profiles for your particular cameras and copy the files into /Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/Camera on your Mac.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      A link that may help:  http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles:FAQ#WhereInstall

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I don't know if it's legal to provide copies of these files, but if so I would gladly send them to you.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      -Noel

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