20 Replies Latest reply on Aug 19, 2010 11:00 AM by tclark513

    No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's

    Taverino Level 2

      Maybe I am missing something, but none of the graphics cards that Apple will ship with the Mac Pro's announced today have CUDA support. The only cards that seem to be offered are the ATI Radeon HD 5770 and 5870.

       

      Has the feud between Apple and Adobe become so intense or the number of PPro users who want to take full advantage of MPE so small? I've been waiting to upgrade my old Mac Pro, but now I am giving serious thought to switching back to Windows.

       

      I guess I could add a supported NVidia card, but the implications of this announcement seem significant.

        • 1. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I of course do not know WHY Apple will only provide an ATI card (my last Apple was a IIe back in the 80's) but, as you have noted, the end result is no hardware MPE since that is only supported on selected nVidia cards

          • 2. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

            Since the new Quadro's will likely not ship till Sep or OCT that is likely why they are releasing with just ATI cards. Once the new Quadro cards actually start shipping for the PC you will likely see a Mac Quadro 5000 some time after and a Mac Quadro 6000 down the road.

             

            What you want to hope for though is a Mac 470GTX sooner rather than later.

            • 3. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
              Taverino Level 2

              Waiting to see what develops with new graphics support by both Adobe and Apple makes sense since I won't be in a position to upgrade until late in the year.

               

              But I have been pondering my dilemma all morning and am coming to the conclusion that the switch back to Windows makes a lot of sense for me. These days when I am in front of the computer, I am either in the cloud or in one of the Adobe Production Premium products or Lightroom. I just configured a system at the ADK site; looks like a no brainer. The main hassles will be converting things like my mail, calendar, contacts, backups, etc. I will give up some Mac-only plug-ins & programs, but will gain much more back.

               

              So, in the meantime I'll wait-and-see and not invest in any Mac-only plug-ins, programs, etc. But it seems increasingly clear to me that sooner or later I will be back in the Windows fold. After all this time waiting for new Mac Pro's, I had expected something a lot bolder from Apple - maybe something to leapfrog the competition. Geez, not even USB 3.

              • 4. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                Scott Chichelli Level 3

                Frankly it really does not matter. there is absolutely no point to buying an Apple unless you are runing Logic or Final Cut.

                they are over priced and underperfoming of a windows system.

                OSX has major issues with properly using multicore.

                so 12 cores now rather than 8 is well useless. (even logic cant use the 8 correctly or FC)

                add to that the C-State issues with Apple EFI and you have a very pretty and expensive toy.

                 

                and this is coming from an Apple dealer.

                i would have been far more excited if Apple had anounced a new OS that actualy worked rather than 12 cores.

                 

                to the original ? there is supposed to be after market nvidia cards coming (maybe not now)

                you can still buy the over priced 4800 for Apple (based on the 260 gaming card)

                 

                i do know there was some scuttlebut with Apple and the 480 card overheating and then Adobe deciding to not make the 480 offical over this. (for what amounts to about 20% of their user base at best)

                hopefully thats changed now.

                 

                Scott

                ADK

                • 5. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                  Taverino Level 2

                  Yup, it is definitely looking like switching back to Windows is a no-brainer. I will save enough with the switch to buy the new Quadro 5000 (which was announced today with Windows support). Scott, when will you have the Quadro 5000 available for your systems?

                   

                  The good news is that Adobe makes it very easy to transfer the CS5 license between platforms. The bad news is that one of the developers of plug-ins I use wants 50% of the full license fee just to transfer from Mac to Windows.

                  • 6. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                    RDA972 Level 3
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                    ECBowen wrote:

                     

                    Since the new Quadro's will likely not ship till Sep or OCT ....

                    It is my understanding that both the 4000 and 5000 Quadro cards are already available with the top of the line due in the fall.

                     

                    "Availability and Pricing
                    The Quadro 4000 ($1,199 MSRP, USD) and Quadro 5000 ($2,249 MSRP, USD) are available immediately through all channels. The Quadro 6000 ($4,999 MSRP, USD) and Quadro Plex 7000 ($14,500 MSRP, USD) will be available this fall. Mobile workstations based on the Quadro 5000M will be available in the third quarter of 2010 from HP and Dell."

                    • 7. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                      4000,5000 and 6000 are showing on my price lists but no stock and no eta listed

                      emailing to get a better answer.

                       

                      why would you want a Quadro vs the 470/480? the layer limits are gone.

                       

                      thanks

                      Scott

                      • 8. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                        http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/nvidia_announces_fermi-based_quadro_lineup

                         

                        You may see the first Quadro 5000 in August but likely will be the end of the month or Sept. The Quadro 6000 is definitely set for OCT currently.

                         

                        Eric

                        ADK

                        • 9. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                          TomPerrone

                          Well,  I've been waiting and waiting and waiting and now the machines are out but no official Nvidia support.

                          I've been holding off the switch back to windows but I think I'm going to do it.I honestly believe apple is abandoning content creators for content consumers. Makes good business sense for them but does not give me the warm-and-fuzzies for investing in a $5K plus machine.

                           

                          IMHO, for content creation, the adobe / apple combination has gone from top of the heap to bottom of the barrel over time. Too bad.

                           

                          I now already dual-boot my mac book pro into Windows 7 and it works well.

                           

                          Tom

                          • 11. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                            Scott Chichelli Level 3

                            ok 4000 in 2 weeks+

                            5000 shipping 8/4

                            6000 Sept

                             

                            Scott

                            ADK

                            • 12. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                              Taverino Level 2

                              JCschild wrote:

                               

                              why would you want a Quadro vs the 470/480? the layer limits are gone.

                               

                              thanks

                              Scott

                               

                              No idea. Can you tell me or point me me to a resource that compares the different models and how those differences relate to CS5? Thanks.

                               

                              It should be noted that I spend a lot more time in After Effects than I do in Premiere Pro. It stands to reason (doesn't it?) that Adobe is looking to offload as much of AE's playback as possible to the graphics board - maybe MPE for CS6? So I was thinking of getting the most powerful board I can afford thinking that AE is probably a lot more of a graphics hog. OTOH, it may be a long wait for Adobe to implement MPE support in AE, and maybe by then there will a whole new generation of boards to choose from.

                              • 13. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                rbilsbor Level 1

                                John T. Smith, thanks for linking to my article!

                                 

                                http://nofilmschool.com/2010/07/apple-snubs-adobe-again-with-new-mac-pros/

                                 

                                I've been considering building a hackintosh to run the Mac version of CS5 just so I can keep all my Mac applications around. But if it weren't for the third-party apps I use on a daily basis, switching to a PC would be a no-brainer. I thought when I switched to a Mac in 2006 my days of spending too much time configuring computer hardware were over, but now it kind of makes sense to switch BACK to a PC...

                                • 14. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  Right now AE does not offload that much to the video card. The majority of the load is handled by the CPU and allot of RAM. Mainly the Preview Frame Data and Pixel Color data on output is handled by the video card. The 470GTX and 480GTX is absolutely superior to the Quadro FX4800 in every way. If you need 10bit color preview then get the 480GTX with the HDMI. That will give you 10bit color monitoring if you require it. If you want a Quadro then wait for the 5000 which unfortunately looks like a pretty heavy investment.

                                  • 15. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                    rbilsbor Level 1

                                    "they are over priced and underperfoming of a windows system.

                                    OSX has major issues with properly using multicore."

                                     

                                    Does anyone have a good link for PC vs Mac CS5 benchmarks? Would love to see this in terms of real-world performance with a CUDA card that works in both machines, like the Quadro FX 4800 or GTX 285.

                                    • 16. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                      Andrew M Clark Level 1

                                      ECBowen wrote:

                                       

                                      ..... If you need 10bit color preview then get the 480GTX with the HDMI. That will give you 10bit color monitoring if you require it. If you want a Quadro then wait for the 5000 which unfortunately looks like a pretty heavy investment.

                                      Do you mean the Quadro 4800fx rather than the 480gtx?

                                       

                                      Reason I ask this, is because I just recently received a reply back from nVidia stating that none of their GeForce cards output in 10bit; only certain Quadro cards...even though the Geforce cards have an HDMI output. Strange, but that's what they replied.

                                      • 17. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                        http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/90025/GTX_480-470_Web_Datasheet.Final3.pdf

                                         

                                        Look at page 2

                                         

                                        HDMI 1.3a support including xvYCC, deep color

                                         

                                         

                                        Then go to here to read about xvYCC and Deep Color

                                         

                                        http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/207gear/

                                         

                                        "So, What's This xvYCC and Deep Color?
                                        xvYCC (also known as IEC 61966-2-4) expands the color-gamut triangle but does so as a standard across the board. This gives access to deeper colors—a redder red, if you will—for content providers and all the way down to you at home. Interestingly, xvYCC doesn't do this by changing the Rec.709 primaries. Instead, it uses those primaries as reference points for a whole lot of other math. Simply, it allows for more room around the current RGB triangle.

                                        Deep Color increases the number of bits available for transmission for each channel. This means that there are more shades available for a TV to mix together. So, for example, a TV that accepts the new standard in 12-bit form can mix together any one of 4,096 shades (levels of brightness) of each primary color for 68.7 billion possible colors (4,096 red x 4,096 green x 4,096 blue = 68,719,476,736 colors). HDMI 1.2 could only transfer 8 bits per channel. So, there were only 256 shades of each color to choose from and fewer colors overall (256 x 256 x 256 = 16.7 million). These different shades help decrease artifacts (like color banding) and increase color fidelity. The visible picture-quality increase from 8 bits per channel to 10 or even 16 (in its highest 1.3 form) has been and is still being debated, but having the ability to transmit xvYCC and Deep Color sure can't hurt. Together, they mean that there will be more and better colors for future displays"

                                         

                                        Hope that helps

                                        Eric

                                        ADK

                                        • 18. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                          Andrew M Clark Level 1

                                          I'm not disagreeing with you...just a bit more confused now!!

                                           

                                           

                                          This is the response I received back from nVidia:

                                           

                                           

                                          Thanks  for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

                                           

                                          The  GeForce GTX 400 series does not support 30-bit color / 10 bits per  component.  Only select Quadro FX products support with with Display  Port.  Thanks for your interest.

                                           

                                          http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/TB-04701-001_v02_new.pdf

                                           

                                          Best Regards,
                                          Troy
                                          NVIDIA Customer Care
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                                          • 19. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                            Taverino Level 2

                                            Just to bring this thread I started to a happy ending: I had a break in my schedule and decided now was the time to switch back to the PC for a whole slew of reasons. The process (which I'd be happy to detail for anyone going the same route) involved about a day researching the latest PC hardware options as they apply to CS5 and my workflow, a day of back-and-forth with different hardware suppliers coming up with my configuration, a day of inventoring all my Mac applications and data and figuring out the best way to migrate back to the PC, and about 2 days (although small bits and pieces remain) of actually getting everything up and running. I will say running Parallels and Windows on my old Mac while I was waiting for my new PC to arrive allowed me to plan and get everything ready for a smooth transition.

                                             

                                            Scott at ADK was extremely helpful in guiding the configuration of a system that exactly meets my needs. He responded immediately to my emails and phone calls.  I could not be more pleased with the system they built for me.

                                             

                                            Specific issues involving CS5:

                                            - Adobe and most plug-in developers allow cross-platform licensing. Adobe sends new DVD's with new serial numbers just for the cost of shipping. But the first order I placed went awry and I had to go through the whole paperwork process a second time. One plug-in developer is forcing me to pay a new license fee. Although it is discounted, it still left a very bad taste in my mouth.

                                            - Although I have gained some effects in PPro with the move to Windows, I have lost FxFactory which only runs on Mac. I have also lost Kinemac, but the new 3D text features in Photoshop CS5 give me much of what I used Kinemac for.

                                            - One thing that I have not had time to do is go through my collection of old projects and see what adjustments, if any need to be made. Fortunately, my workflow rarely involves needing to access old projects.

                                             

                                            Bottom line: I highly recommend the guys at ADK. Although my switch several years ago to Mac made sense at the time, I think the move I just made is a good one - even if Apple had come out with new Mac Pro's better suited to video editing. I have been saying that the switch to Mac was like the time I tried out being a vegetarian. It is so good to be eating meat again!

                                            • 20. Re: No CUDA support in New Mac Pro's
                                              tclark513 Level 3

                                              Congratulations!  That's the best thing you could have done!