13 Replies Latest reply on Oct 16, 2006 7:05 AM by Newsgroup_User

    ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)

    Level 7
      I don't want to start a huge debate over ASP.NET vs. PHP. I've done a
      little PHP work, but no ASP.NET work.

      We have a government client that uses ASP.NET and will not allow us
      access to their server for development, which as you can imagine, makes
      things very difficult.

      So we are considering purchasing a server and installing ASP.NET to
      develop on.

      I've had a hard time figuring out how go about this. I'm a Mac guy first
      of all and from my Google searches have found a bunch of ASP.NET
      components, but no software to install.

      Does it come installed on a Windows server? How much does it cost?

      What type of server should we get, how much would that cost?

      Any help with this would be appreciated.

      -Kirk
        • 1. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
          Level 7
          On Thu 12 Oct 2006 04:09:46p, W. Kirk Lutz wrote in macromedia.dreamweaver:

          > Does it come installed on a Windows server? How much does it cost?
          >
          > What type of server should we get, how much would that cost?

          You can install ASP.Net, and enable IIS, on any XP Pro or Win2K machine.
          There will be limitations as to number of simultaneous connections, but for
          a testing environment, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
          • 2. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
            Level 7
            > Does it come installed on a Windows server? How much does it cost?
            >
            > What type of server should we get, how much would that cost?

            You need IIS. IIS comes with XP, XP Pro, 2k, and Windows Server.

            You'll probably want to get XP Pro for this.

            If it's a newer CD, it'll probably include the .net framework on it.
            Otherwise, just download it from www.asp.net and install.

            That said, if you all haven't done asp.net work before, I'm not sure how
            much you want to tackle on your own.

            -Darrel


            • 3. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
              Level 7
              LOL. only a government office would hire someone to work on their
              asp.net site with absolutely no experience!
              • 4. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                Level 7

                > LOL. only a government office would hire someone to work on their
                > asp.net site with absolutely no experience!

                That's a really ignorant statement.

                Being a .gov has nothing to do with it. It's a simple forumula. As the size
                of the enterprise increases, do to does IT staff. As the size of the IT
                department increases, so does the liklihood of the company deciding that
                Microsoft should be the answer to every single IT request. At that point,
                all that matters is that they maintain MS licenses. The quality of products
                becomes a non-issue. Ya gotta keep support busy, right? ;o)

                -Darrel


                • 6. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                  Level 7
                  New Guy wrote:
                  > LOL!!


                  Any other constructive comments? LOL, doesn't exactly answer any of my
                  questions.

                  -kirk
                  • 7. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                    Level 7
                    > Any other constructive comments? LOL, doesn't exactly answer any of my
                    > questions.

                    Did my previous answer not work? If not, let me know what else you need
                    answers to. Glad to help...

                    -Darrel


                    • 8. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                      Level 7
                      They hired us because we design and build award winning websites. We do
                      not have an in-house ASP.NET person, so we farm that part out. I am not
                      that familiar with ASP.NET which is why I posted the question. Their
                      current site was designed by an ASP.NET programmer. And it looks like
                      it. Programmers should program. Designers should design.

                      I'd read online that ASP.NET was expensive which was one of it's drawbacks.

                      Not having any access to the final resting place server makes
                      development a little difficult. We are looking for solutions.

                      -Kirk


                      New Guy wrote:
                      > LOL. only a government office would hire someone to work on their
                      > asp.net site with absolutely no experience!
                      • 9. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                        Level 7
                        darrel wrote:
                        >> Any other constructive comments? LOL, doesn't exactly answer any of my
                        >> questions.
                        >
                        > Did my previous answer not work? If not, let me know what else you need
                        > answers to. Glad to help...
                        >
                        > -Darrel
                        >
                        >
                        Sorry Darrel, my email software wasn't showing any answers. Had to quit
                        it and restart it.

                        Their server is Windows 2003 IIS 6 running the latest patches and
                        service packs.

                        If I want to try and build a similar server for us to work on(I know
                        this is an idiotic way to work), what would be the cost?

                        -Kirk
                        • 10. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                          Level 7
                          > If I want to try and build a similar server for us to work on(I know this
                          > is an idiotic way to work), what would be the cost?

                          Whatever server 2003 is going for these days.

                          If you are going to develop in .net, however, you can sign up for one of
                          MS's developer programs, where you can get most of this software pretty
                          cheap. Check out MSDN.com

                          I have no idea what kind of application they want you to build, but you
                          shouldn't NEED server 2003...IIS running on XP should be just fine for the
                          project.

                          -Darrel


                          • 11. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                            Level 7
                            > Their current site was designed by an ASP.NET programmer. And it looks
                            > like it. Programmers should program. Designers should design.

                            Designers are programmers and vice versa. ;o)

                            The problem is designers that don't know where their area of expertise ends
                            and fail to fill in the gaps with other's skills.

                            > I'd read online that ASP.NET was expensive which was one of it's
                            > drawbacks.

                            IF you're going to tackle ASP.net, you have to start learning Microsoft's
                            confusing and inane branding for all their products.

                            ASP.net isn't anything specifically. MS uses it for a variety of
                            technologies and products.

                            Typically, for devleopers, ASP.net refers to the ASP.net framework. This is
                            free. It comes with newer editions of Windows or you can just download it
                            and install it on your windows machine. While not exactly the same,
                            conceptually, you can think of it like the Java Run Time Machine you can
                            install to run Java apps.

                            However, to use it, you need Windows. To use it on web sites, you need IIS.
                            So ya gotta pay for those.

                            To develop for it, you typically want to use Visual Studio. So ya gotta get
                            that too.

                            And then to deploy, you typically work with a Windows server and, quite
                            often, MS SQL. So you need to pay for that as well.

                            In the long run, ASP.net development tools cost money, while most open
                            source software development tools do not.

                            In terms of cost of development, well, I'm not convinced that any one
                            technology has the upper hand in that area. There are just too many 'it
                            depends' type variables.

                            > Not having any access to the final resting place server makes development
                            > a little difficult. We are looking for solutions.

                            The only major issue that I can think of off the top of my head would be to
                            find out if they are using any sort of load balancing and server farming. If
                            so, you're going to have to deal with session state across multiple servers.
                            It can be done, but you have to plan for it. We just switched to load
                            balanced servers here and that has affected some or our 'less planned out'
                            3rd party vendor-produced software.

                            FYI, we're a .gov that has decided that MS is the answer to everything. I
                            loathe that mindset, but I at least I can empathize with you. ;o)

                            One last thing to note is that ASP.net isn't a specific language. Make sure
                            you ask the client if they have a specific language requirement as well.
                            ASP.net apps can be developed with a variety of languages, though it's
                            typically VB.net or C#.net. They all accomplish the same thing, but if they
                            are wanting source code to be able to modify/maintain themselves, they may
                            have a specific language request.

                            -Darrel


                            • 12. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                              Level 7
                              It's worth pointing out that outside of the hosting requirements, everything
                              else can be downloaded free of charge in the form of Microsoft Express
                              editions (Visual Studio Express and SQL Server Express in particular).

                              So you can develop database driven .net applications free of charge - then
                              host them on a windows platform as per Darrels post.

                              Cheers,
                              Rob
                              http://robgt.com/ [Tutorials and Extensions]
                              Firebox stuff: http://robgt.com/firebox
                              Skype stuff: http://robgt.com/skype
                              SatNav stuff: http://robgt.com/satnav


                              • 13. Re: ASP.NET Purchase and Install (k)
                                Level 7
                                Thanks for the very valuable information. I am a designer and I program.
                                I know my limitations and my company's. ASP.NET(and any of the
                                programming languages it uses) is beyond our capabilities.


                                -Kirk

                                darrel wrote:
                                >> Their current site was designed by an ASP.NET programmer. And it looks
                                >> like it. Programmers should program. Designers should design.
                                >
                                > Designers are programmers and vice versa. ;o)
                                >
                                > The problem is designers that don't know where their area of expertise ends
                                > and fail to fill in the gaps with other's skills.
                                >
                                >> I'd read online that ASP.NET was expensive which was one of it's
                                >> drawbacks.
                                >
                                > IF you're going to tackle ASP.net, you have to start learning Microsoft's
                                > confusing and inane branding for all their products.
                                >
                                > ASP.net isn't anything specifically. MS uses it for a variety of
                                > technologies and products.
                                >
                                > Typically, for devleopers, ASP.net refers to the ASP.net framework. This is
                                > free. It comes with newer editions of Windows or you can just download it
                                > and install it on your windows machine. While not exactly the same,
                                > conceptually, you can think of it like the Java Run Time Machine you can
                                > install to run Java apps.
                                >
                                > However, to use it, you need Windows. To use it on web sites, you need IIS.
                                > So ya gotta pay for those.
                                >
                                > To develop for it, you typically want to use Visual Studio. So ya gotta get
                                > that too.
                                >
                                > And then to deploy, you typically work with a Windows server and, quite
                                > often, MS SQL. So you need to pay for that as well.
                                >
                                > In the long run, ASP.net development tools cost money, while most open
                                > source software development tools do not.
                                >
                                > In terms of cost of development, well, I'm not convinced that any one
                                > technology has the upper hand in that area. There are just too many 'it
                                > depends' type variables.
                                >
                                >> Not having any access to the final resting place server makes development
                                >> a little difficult. We are looking for solutions.
                                >
                                > The only major issue that I can think of off the top of my head would be to
                                > find out if they are using any sort of load balancing and server farming. If
                                > so, you're going to have to deal with session state across multiple servers.
                                > It can be done, but you have to plan for it. We just switched to load
                                > balanced servers here and that has affected some or our 'less planned out'
                                > 3rd party vendor-produced software.
                                >
                                > FYI, we're a .gov that has decided that MS is the answer to everything. I
                                > loathe that mindset, but I at least I can empathize with you. ;o)
                                >
                                > One last thing to note is that ASP.net isn't a specific language. Make sure
                                > you ask the client if they have a specific language requirement as well.
                                > ASP.net apps can be developed with a variety of languages, though it's
                                > typically VB.net or C#.net. They all accomplish the same thing, but if they
                                > are wanting source code to be able to modify/maintain themselves, they may
                                > have a specific language request.
                                >
                                > -Darrel
                                >
                                >