33 Replies Latest reply on Apr 6, 2011 10:46 PM by C.J.D.1981

    Photshop for Linux? It is time...

    stinky denzil Level 1

      Hi

       

      I really hope this is not a stupid question, but are there any future plans to release a version of Photoshop for Linux?

       

      Why I ask is that the only reason a lot of us keep Windows is to run Photoshop.

      Running it inside Linux Wine is very unstable and the fonts are almost unreadable.

        • 1. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
          fantasticfoxmr

          Photoshop on Ubuntu would make me very very happy.

          • 2. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
            c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

            I think the matter has come up before (a Forum search should turn up something) and if I remember correctly for various reasons such plans were rejected.

            • 3. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
              stinky denzil Level 1

              I did find some fairly old posts about that, but I thought Adobe might have reconsidered by now.

               

              I would say the reason Linux has less of a market share than Windows or Mac is precisely because software developers don't develop Linux versions of their products.

               

              And the reason software developers don't develop Linux versions of their products is because  Linux has less of a market share than Windows or Mac.

               

              Someone has to break this catch-22 situation, and I think it should start with the developers.

               

              Please Adobe, we're on our knees begging you

              • 4. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

                Wasn’t one of the reasons given in those old threads the missing color management?

                Has that matter been remedied in the meantime?

                • 5. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                  stinky denzil Level 1

                  That's a good question...
                  I must admint I don't know.

                  I'm on Ubuntu version 10.04

                  I will try to find out if they have fixed that problem.

                  • 6. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                    Level 7

                    See the old threads.

                     

                    The situation on Linux hasn't improved much - so most of those comments still apply.

                    • 7. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                      stinky denzil Level 1

                      I have posted a request on the Ubuntu forum requesting colour management functionality.

                       

                      One can only hope ... :-)

                      • 8. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                        disap4m

                        There are Open Source Alternatives to most proprietory products such as Photoshop, Illistrator  and alike. But as it goes, most of them do not have the same usability as theyre closed source cousins. What Adobe doesn't seem to understand is that porting its products to as many platforms as possible will only result in better sales and a wider scope in the field of creative design. Sure, they released flash codecs and pdf readers for linux, but look what they did for Mac? I would not beg anyone to release their software on a platform which I use, they must find out for themselves the positives of doing it. Many people use GNU/BSD/Linux for such things as 3D rendering because of the OS's reliant and powerful nature, I guarantee that if one were to port over to the *nix platform, then sales would increase, and people would have a choice other than platforms like MS Windows and Apple Mac OS.

                         

                        We are not asking you to open up your code, binary releases of Closed Software exist on most enterprise Linux machines.

                         

                        Even if it is not the full range of software products, only if it is packages like Dreamweaver or Flash Professional? Try it, let us see if it is a good idea!

                         

                        And to stinky denzil, while Adobe muls this over (probably for the next 10 years) try Gimp and InkScape, both very powerful Apps capable of a great work.

                         

                        Ben North

                        MMC Director

                        • 9. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                          c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

                          After just recently having moved Photoshop for Mac from Carbon to Cocoa maybe some Adobe employee might provide some estimate on how many programming- and testing-hours it would take Adobe to do Photoshop for Linux.

                          • 10. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                            gfhgkjhkljl;kl;'k

                            What's to port? Photoshop runs perfect using linux and wine.

                            If you can't get photoshop to run perfect on linux, then your not

                            setting up your system right.

                             

                             

                             

                            Screenshot.png

                             

                             

                             

                            Screenshot-1.png

                             

                             

                            Thom

                            • 11. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                              Level 7

                              After just recently having moved Photoshop for Mac from Carbon to Cocoa maybe some Adobe employee might provide some estimate on how many programming- and testing-hours it would take Adobe to do Photoshop for Linux.

                              FAR more than the port to Cocoa, and far more than the Linux market can justify.

                              Lack of standards on Linux, and lack of paying customers using Linux -- those haven't changed one bit.

                               

                              When Linux has people willing to pay for software, then commercial software will get ported.

                              But without paying customers, why would anyone spend money making a port?

                              • 12. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                disap4m Level 1

                                There are plenty of people willing to pay for software that use Linux based systems, many of the previously Windows only games have been ported, and I myself have purchased them in order to play them. That statement has no grounding, just because users wish to use a FREE operating system, doesn't mean they are not willing to purchase software. Creating opportunity for people to chose to run Adobe products on alternative OS's will increase revenue, and even better the product. More users means more bug tracking and will help the software to evolve. Closing yourself off is a bad idea. Writing your software for as many platforms as possible can only mean a better grip on the industry. If everyone went over to a Linux based system, then what? Adobe would be in trouble. Like I said before, I will not beg any company for their product, but I would erg them to consider the possibility.

                                • 13. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                  Level 7

                                  There are plenty of people willing to pay for software that use Linux based systems,

                                  No, there aren't.  We've done the marketing surveys, several times.

                                  And we keep doing them, despite not seeing any change in the results, because people keep saying that there must be a market -- but there isn't.

                                   

                                  We're not closed to the idea of a Linux port.   But Linux isn't ready, and neither are the users.

                                   

                                  When Linux users are ready to pay for commercial software, then the commercial software will come.

                                  Of course, Linux developing standards and stabilizing the platform would help lower the cost of ports.  But we've been saying that as long as I've been with Adobe, and nothing has really changed on the Linux side.

                                  • 14. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                    disap4m Level 1

                                    Well then, to answer your question. No.

                                     

                                     

                                    Adobe and M$ obviously are too busy giving each other back handers to keep themselves the main contenders in the industry. Linux is just a virus just like Steve Balmer said...and everyone believes the toxic bigotry that that man speaks. Hopefully some clever cookie will create something to rival all Adobe products in the effort to create a platform independent application for everyone to use, whether it be free or for a fee.

                                     

                                    And to you Mr. Cox, I have not seen a survey from Adobe asking the "Market" if they would pay for a Linux version. Link me if the polls are still open.

                                    • 15. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                      c.pfaffenbichler Level 9

                                      First off: I’m no Linux-user, so I’m just following this thread as a bystander.

                                       

                                      Now you don’t seem to trust Mr.Cox assessment that it would not be lucrative for Adobe to undertake this task; but what about gfhgkjhkljl;kl;'k’s claim that it is feasible to run Photoshop under Linux already?

                                      • 16. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                        disap4m Level 1

                                             I'm not just talking about Photoshop, maybe thats a little off subject, I'm talking about the Suites like CS3-4 and 5. $4000 applications. Your right, Photoshop "runs" in wine or Crossover Linux, but it is not native, so there will be issues. Like what was stated before, fonts and overall rendering is buggy. Graphics design needs to be 100% when dealing with it on a commercial scale. I don't really see a point in discussing the matter further as we are not getting anywhere, as always the Companies in question always say the same thing, "Linux isnt ready/stable/Windows". Every time a discussion arises about the subject it gets the same lazy answers, "we dont do it because there is no market", which are lies. If you send surveys to Windows and Mac users then thats what you'll get, but if you target Linux Forums and alike you'll get a different response. Some will argue that they will not use non-free programs (these are the Zealots) and others will welcome the idea.

                                         

                                             In my profession the only thing making me boot into Windows is PS and DreamWeaver. There just arent the alternatives to these applications. And Adobe knows it! That's why they'll make up some rubbish excuse to not port their software to a free-based OS. They get too many perks from the big boy software companies like Apple and Microsoft.

                                         

                                             And on the subject of Paying for software, how much piracy exists with Windows apps? Most Windows users run cracked copies of the OS, thats not even the list of thousands of applications that cost thousands that they do NOT pay for! How many PS users do you think that run on the Windows Platforms pay for the program?

                                         

                                             To go a step further to jab Mr. Cox in the face:

                                        There are plenty of people willing to pay for software that use Linux based systems,

                                        "No, there aren't.  We've done the marketing surveys, several times.

                                        And  we keep doing them, despite not seeing any change in the results,  because people keep saying that there must be a market -- but there  isn't."

                                        Cox.

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Lets look at the following link

                                         

                                        So explain why for a bundle where you pay what you want, Linux users donated the most and was the 2nd highest demographic?

                                         

                                        So don't give me that verbal waste that Linux users don't pay! We can be more generous than those who spend money on their OS's instead of their programs.

                                        • 17. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                          Level 7

                                          I'm not making anything up here, or providing any "lazy answers" - just trying to explain the facts to you.

                                          Just because you don't like the answers, does not make them any less true.

                                           

                                           

                                          >> So explain why for a bundle where you pay what you want, Linux users donated the most and was the 2nd highest demographic?

                                           

                                          Because there is a huge difference between $10-$20 applets and $600-$1000 applications when it comes to what users are willing to pay.

                                           

                                           

                                          BTW - we survey everyone for these things, not current users, not just users of particular platforms. And some of the surveys go to JUST Linux users. Plus we pick up results from other surveys done in the software industry.


                                          I have read the market research, and Linux users just aren't ready to pay for commercial software yet.

                                          (disclaimer: there are some niches where Linux users would pay for software, but they already buy the Windows or Macintosh version of the same software, making a port pointless)

                                          • 18. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                            8bf

                                            No no its not. Whats with these linux crybabies that can't get over the fact that linux is a niche OS. They keep insisting that linux is catching on its getting better! etc etc Until I see it talked about in my computer store, at work or at home among non-techies its not something thats worth any developers time. Yes i am a user and have Ubuntu installed.

                                             

                                            Linux-users:You show them the sky is blue and they insist its not really the case. Its like a mentality of being stuck in the water and clinging even tighter to your raft. You really believe that a company of adobe's size hasn't done testing on a potential market and evaluated whether its worth their time and effort? Seriously?I doubt adobe is brushing aside linux users as more like being fed up with defending their decision which makes perfect sense

                                             

                                            Most of these linux users are being delusional if they think there really is such a huge proportion of linux users who would pay  Yes theres piracy on macs and pcs but you really believe it'll be better on linux? I don't. Especially since more so then pc/mac users they are more ingrained in the everything should be free mentality of linux. I'm sure adobes focus groups and market research and actual user interviews reflect this. It costs time and money to release versions and to release for a handful of linux users who may pay? Not realisitic

                                             

                                            Early versions were also available for IRIX and Solaris. Do you see adobe developing versions for them or any other niche os? Any business person would realize why they don't make it for other than pc and mac. Linux users need to get over their fan mentality and ask themselves if its worth adobes time. How about just admitting "Yeah your right its not worthwhile to develop for a os that few users use; aside from some niche group"  To say to Adobe you should just jump in and make a linux version and everyone will follow is lacking in common sense. If they did I doubt even then there would be a huge push to get into the commercial linux market. Adobe would have to have obscene sales records that would never beat the pc/mac versions in popularity. The attitude would still be wait and see and more likely Adobes foolish to develop for such a limited software market we'll stick with pc/mac. Microsoft sells office for windows and macs because they see its worth their while not because linux is a "threat"but because its makes sense to sell for those users.

                                             

                                             

                                            Put yourself in adobes shoes:Would you personally as a software developer invest time/money/resources unless it was worth while? I am a linux user and I still think it wouldn't make any sense.

                                             

                                            Enough with the wishful thinking and just realize chances are its not going to happen. It wouldn't make any sense for any company

                                             

                                            Sorry Chris for this asinine deluded argument that I'm sure has come up time and again. =/

                                            • 19. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                              imgrby Level 1

                                              Solution for now - install VirtualBox, google how to install windows there("installing windows in ubuntu virtual box"), than install Photoshop there. I set harware configuration for virtual machine as on computer at work - it works just like there.

                                              You need more harware resources for this way, but as ubuntu user i found this way very useful.

                                              • 20. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                fantasticfoxmr Level 1

                                                I've never seen the aforementioned polls, so I'd like to chime in here.  If PS were available on Ubuntu I'd buy it tonight.  I work with designers who would be very interested in migrating to Ubuntu if it were available there, too.

                                                 

                                                I've used PS professionally for web development on Mac and Windows for 12 years.  I used it for prepress software development before that (Mac and IRIX).

                                                 

                                                I like GIMP, but I'm unable to substitute it for PS at the corporate level.  If I could, I'd gladly donate the cost of CS5 (and then some) to the effort, as I have for Emacs, Cygwin, and other free software I use professionally.  I don't particularly like Adobe.  Perhaps if they sit on their ***** long enough GIMP will catch up and become a viable alternative.

                                                • 21. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                  8bf Level 1

                                                  Sorry for not responding earlier; I tend to use gmail more often. Even if it was used in my adobe profile.

                                                   

                                                  I understand completely that gimp is not anywhere near as polished and professional as ps. It still retains its linux origins in the gui being a floating gui on the desktop instead of its own contained environment. Its nowhere near as polished as ps But thats probably the least of it, the gimp  interface looks almost like a novice photo editing app like a paintshop pro vs a serious photo editing interface.

                                                   

                                                  Openoffice also suffers from it as well in regards to ms office. The interface has become the defacto standard. Adobe did a sweet gui that has yet to be replicated  Corel paint looked ugly and convoluted; but the main problem it being buggy and unstable. Corel tends to ruin what they have ie: wordperfect while still made is nowhere near ms word.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Look I understand the frustration in having to run it from a emulator but i still think i made some valid points in my post. To wine and complain will hardly change adobes mind. To be honest i can't blame them theres no market for commercial linux apps. They have tried on early solaris irix etc platforms. So to say they haven't tried before is silly. To say they haven't done the research also silly. Would you invest millions in the development of an app version for a os that hasn't been proven to be viable commercially. Linux users (yes i do dual boot to ubuntu) always seem to grasp onto the false or deluded hope that the os will magically overtake windows or mac that all it takes are a few big producers to sell some commercial apps.

                                                   

                                                  Even if that was the case the version would not sell nearly as much as the windows mac ones. Linux's problem isn't the lack of quality apps only; its also the fact nobody except power users and administrators ; enthusiasts and the ilk use it. A Handful of users saying they will commit 100's of dollars a piece when it costs millions to develop a linux version doesn't exactly reassure adobe given the track record of commercial liniux apps. CAn you name one? Why not suggest an amiga version as well? i heard theres a core group of those enhusiasts as well. Right now we live with a market divided among windows and mac os. Why does ms develop a version of office for macs their own os competitor; simply because they know theres a market for their apps on it. Hell they and adobe would make linux versions but they ain't that stupid with risks. Adobe knows this and while sympathetic probably have to shrug off suggestions about linux version which I'm sure they get

                                                  asked ALL THE TIME

                                                  Kinda like people that adore 8tracks and want a comeback it doesn't look like its gonna happen.Anyways we could debate this for probably forever. Take care.

                                                  • 22. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                    8bf Level 1

                                                    One last note:

                                                     

                                                    As far as gimp catching on...uhhh..sounds like the same thing i hear from linux users as to the popularity of it catching on. The interface still retains the linux interface and the tools don't replicate what ps has in a nice gui. Adobe invests millions on development; not waiting for a bunch of enthusiasts to throw something together. Linux users develop for other os's but don't take into account the look and feel for them. Gimp doesn't feel PC. The tools aren't anywhere near the level of ps's look/feel; I'm sorry but I don't see the leaps and bounds your thinking about; and it doesn't look to be changing as fast as you wanna believe.. Yes I'm sure it has "improved" since earlier versions but it still feels hashed together. It doesn't even try to copy ps's interface from what i can tell. Gimp feels almost proud its not a serious ps competitor and doesn't try to be.Unless Gimp changes its gui and tools and look to quite literally look like ps it can't be

                                                    more then a joke threat.

                                                     

                                                    I have yet to see a viable competitor that is anywhere near ps; and to tell adobe or anyone this probably makes them wanna laugh or snicker. If i went into a time machine 5-10 yrs from now the interface would probably look the same and they still would be creaking along.

                                                     

                                                    Sorry but this seems like wishful thinking kinda like when I hear cancer patients telling me there's gotta be medication that has to exist for their condition ( Yes I am a medical doctor Piotr Kozlowski M.D =) I mostly use ps for photography and image processing of tissue samples btw) I have to deal with imagej and other crappy gimp imitators but I always come back to photoshop for its power and slickness of gui.

                                                     

                                                     The only reason i use those apps? powerful filters for morphology and scientific image editing. Stuff that could in theory be implemented into ps or as external filters.  A reason why Matlab which i use is available for Linux; they probably have it for the core users of scientific apps. I see why Matlab is made for it and PS not.

                                                     

                                                    Piotr Kozlowski

                                                    • 23. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                      alertalex180

                                                      There are plenty of people who would agree that new version of linux ubuntu are impressive. If you can run an full windows 7 operating system withing linux with no color issues then there has to be a way to code it in linux.

                                                      • 24. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                        atlee_it

                                                        I Would have to jump in here Mr Coxx and to say whatever marketing  surveys your doing you must be going the wrong way about it, Yes Linux  is free but there is a lot of developer programs out there that people  pay money for, just read your forums, you should be listening to what  the public is requesting and if i do a bit of research it goes back past  2004 when linux has been requested.

                                                         

                                                        Zend Studio which  developers use, paid program, people pay full price for it. Why because  it gets the job done and the job done well.

                                                         

                                                        Ubuntu is  free just like all the other distros but just because the OS is free  doesn't remove the energy from buying creative suite from adobe and it  wouldn't effect the price ranges either.

                                                         

                                                        I'm a big fan  of windows, and also got into the mac side of things, only reason i use  them is only because of adobe products. But Linux however is it's own  bundle of joy and its a great system, reliable, both virus and security  wise and its a stable system to build applications for.

                                                         

                                                        I  would buy Adobe Creative Suite if it came to Linux, Try running a poll  on the Adobe forums and i bet you'll get big results. Try another  marketing survey strategy because obviously your hitting a blind spot.

                                                        • 25. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                          c.pfaffenbichler Level 9
                                                          Try another marketing survey strategy because obviously your hitting a blind spot.

                                                          Do you mean Adobe with »you« here or Mr.Cox personally.

                                                          Because I’m unsure if his statements here should be construed to mean that he is personally involved with market research, what with him being a longtime Photoshop programmer and »Sr. Computer Scientist at Adobe«.

                                                          His taking time to contribute to these Fora to the extent that he does is appreciated in any case.

                                                           

                                                          I’m admittedly a longtime Mac-user with little interest in the OS, so I may not grasp the matter sufficiently, but I wonder:

                                                          As a programmer with an interest in image editing and/or analysis (as I assume many of the Photoshop-team are) would porting an application to another OS not seem like a chore that might consume resources at the expense of research and development towards actual image processing or usability improvements?

                                                          • 26. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                            alertalex180 Level 1

                                                            Indeed i just virtual windows and run it there. Thanks

                                                            • 27. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                              kyle_eby

                                                              If they really wanted to hit an untapped market, and wanted to see the potential for the market they would be in contact with all the major linux distros to organize a poll there... that would be a good start...

                                                              • 28. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                                alertalex180 Level 1

                                                                yes indeed, i have settled with running windows virtually within ubuntu

                                                                linux. I probably wont be the one to open up the topics but someone should

                                                                indeed

                                                                • 29. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                                  myotherbrotherbob

                                                                  You might as well, cause microsoft bought adobe in case you didn't know.

                                                                   

                                                                                                                 

                                                                  • 30. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                                    C.J.D.1981

                                                                    Hey Chris, I read your other post that scrolled down the other day and I just want to applaud you for putting up with these guys.  Linux users are notorious for not being able to see the forest for the trees.  I just made an account here so I can applaud your efforts, even though Adobe will probably pester me with marketing now.  I am a programmer myself, if I had to spend valuable work time explaining simple economics to people who ignore everything you say... I would go nuts.

                                                                     

                                                                    I use macs, I use windows, I love both and especially my new iPhone toy.    I used to use linux a lot but I guess I outgrew it, the idealism and the idea of 'sticking it to the man' has a lot of appeal.  Also there's some sort of weird attachment you get to your OS install when you spend all day tweaking it and mussing to get it just right.   That's why Linux people love it so much, see everything windows as evil and ignore all faults with their own system.   They find it a lot easier to blame other people for their lack of marketshare and general market interest, than it is to actually get off their butts and make a robust operating system.    It's extremely naive to think that a Linux port of Photoshop would even increase Linux marketshare, which is ultimately the point of all this begging and arguing (from their POV).   Personally, I have better things to do than google for software fixes or whack my head against WINE to get basic functionality that windows has out of the box.   I'm a programmer and ex-sysadmin and I didn't even jailbreak my iPhone.  Maybe when I was younger I would have the time for it, but I prefer not having it randomly break.  Ironically, making my iPhone more free by jailbreaking would restrict me further by making me have to provide support for this device for all kinds of random jailbreak-related problems.   Such is the Linux paradox.

                                                                     

                                                                    Do they not realize you would need to package and distribute separate binaries for each distro?  And figure out the complicated library requirements, which have different installed versions (and no guarantee of a uniform API between versions, even) between distros?   And figure out what toolkits to tie it to, which also have APIs that change without warning and are not neccessarily installed on any particular distro you might target (and lousy documentation in general).   Linux is a logistical nightmare for distributing any software that isn't open source, but Linux people don't see that.  They just see apt and think oh pushing out linux software is sooo easy.  Not to mention you would effectively have to write a large chunk of drivers for tablets and such, and possibly rewrite parts of the X stack because it's pretty awful.   These things don't just add a few hundred or thousand dollars to fix, you would effectively have to get invested as an OS company in order to provide a consistent user experience to what you get with windows or mac photoshop.

                                                                     

                                                                    Adobe is wise to avoid this market entirely.  The users are notoriously stingy (what % of linux photoshops installs do you think will be pirated? 98%?), they are extremely hard to please, they will constantly demand you give them source code even when it's OBVIOUSLY not in your best interests to do so, they are prone to breaking their own stuff and WILL blame you when it happens.  They already give you enough garbage over flash but hey guess what, you wrote flash, it worked for linux, they changed some stuff and now it doesn't work anymore.   There's a post from Linus himself on the redhat board calling out the devs for trying to pass the buck along to you guys.  Nuh uh.  You are not obligated to provide anything, and the Linux community has no clout to even pretend to matter.  A few people on a forum do not a robust software market make.

                                                                     

                                                                    You see, they always want more more more.   There are plenty of cautionary tales.  Look what happened to Corel.  They put out Coreldraw for Linux, nobody bought it, and people kept bugging Corel for the source code.   Where's corel now?   Where's sun?

                                                                     

                                                                    You tell them what needs to happen for a Linux version of Photoshop, but still they insist the problem is with you, or even with Microsoft (?!).   You tell them fragmentation is a huge huge issue, but they claim that 'choice' is a major bonus for the OS and adamantly refuse to change.

                                                                     

                                                                    Have your choice, the rest of us will have Photoshop.   You do not call the shots in industry, you have no money and nobody listens to you.   If you continually ignore people who state the (very obvious) barriers to commercial software adoption and development on Linux, whose fault is it there's no Linux marketshare or Photoshop?

                                                                    • 31. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                                      Joergen Geerds Level 1

                                                                      +1

                                                                      I can't believe how much arguing Chris has to do here...

                                                                      • 32. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                                        atlee_it Level 1

                                                                        @C.J.D.1981

                                                                        I understand the time you wasted to write this post, you are correct with all the different libraries that would needed to be created with working with different distros however you do not understand that a company would be working direct with the community of the distros to diffuse this problem. No biggy! You say 98% pirated, Wake up to reality man it's 2011, man back long time ago when they brought out the megaphone, Vinyl's oh the Vinyl's recorder, Tapes, oh the tape recorder, stupid companies all had your theory omg everything will be pirated, all sales will drop. you waste your breathe complaining how much effort it would require to make the port but it's not hard, Like any software it can be ported just like any other software can. Adobe is being purchased anyway so your complaining has gone down the drain Just my 2 cents.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Photshop for Linux? It is time...
                                                                          C.J.D.1981 Level 1

                                                                          I understand the time you wasted to write this post, you are correct with all the different libraries that would needed to be created with working with different distros however you do not understand that a company would be working direct with the community of the distros to diffuse this problem. No biggy! You say 98% pirated, Wake up to reality man it's 2011, man back long time ago when they brought out the megaphone, Vinyl's oh the Vinyl's recorder, Tapes, oh the tape recorder, stupid companies all had your theory omg everything will be pirated, all sales will drop. you waste your breathe complaining how much effort it would require to make the port but it's not hard, Like any software it can be ported just like any other software can. Adobe is being purchased anyway so your complaining has gone down the drain Just my 2 cents.

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          YOU do not understand.  Work with the "community of distros to diffuse this problem?"   OK.  First thing, the distros ARE the problem.  The fact that there are 8 zillion distros each shipping different flavours of linux is the whole fragmentation issue in the first place.   The mere fact that you don't understand that is another problem.  Linux users don't realize that they've been shooting themselves in the foot for 16 years, instead they blame the boogeyman Microsoft.  Would you want to go into a business with a bunch of cognitively dissonant idealists?  Would you bet your company's slim profit margin on them?  A bunch of people in that other thread don't even understand the difference between revenues and profits.   Revenue is completely irrelevant, profit is what matters.  This is econ 101 stuff.  Did you note how Chris said "I don't see that there is even an understanding of the problems here".  He means you.  The fact that you think having 800 distros is a good thing.  They all come with the same software but are different in all the ways that matter to software developers.  Things are made much much more difficult than they need to be, for no real advantages at all.

                                                                           

                                                                          Second thing, working with the community never produces anything positive.  You clearly have a very different view of the linux software development community, than the reality of the situtation.   There is a ton of infighting and people with huge egos.  Everyone thinks they know the right way to do things, and generally when there's a disagreement the standard response is "well screw you!  I'll just fork you or go start my own project!"  This furthers the fragmentation issue, and makes companies loathe to get into Linux development.    Look at Miguel de Icaza, that guy founded GNOME (one of the biggest free software projects), he has given more to the community than probably anyone else on earth, and he can't go 2 days without someone picking a fight with him.  He is constantly at odds with Richard Stallman and others.  This is just one example, the KDE and Gnome guys don't get along.  Nobody agrees on what sound or graphics stacks to use.  X11 has been rotting for 25 years with minimal development.  The Linux Standards Base has been around for 10 years and done exactly zero.  You say this is okay because it gives users more choice, but these are stupid choices that nobody wants to make (choose your sound stack? sounds like fun), especially not developers.  Adobe can make a choice too, they can choose it's not worth it getting into bed with Linux.

                                                                           

                                                                          What problems has the community solved thus far?  Linux can't even ship a standardized desktop stack, there are bugs that have been around forever, there are core subsystems that have been neglected for years.  Stuff that Adobe NEEDS to ship PS for linux, like fonts and colours.   You think Adobe wants to start submitting patches to the kernel and glibc and KDE and stuff?  They want to deal with a bunch of touchy developers who have a proven track record of failure and willful ignorance, a history of opposition to commercial software, who can't get along with each other, and have no monetary incentive to listen to Adobe (nor any incentive to include their fixes)?      The open source and Linux community has very very few successes, even stuff like openoffice and firefox were originally commercial software (staroffice and netscape, respectively) that was given to the community by generous companies.

                                                                           

                                                                          Furthermore, distros have a history of BREAKING other peoples' software.  Look at flash.  Adobe gives flash to the linux community (when they have no financial incentive to do so, very altruistic), distros break it with patches and library/API mismatches, everyone starts saying blah adobe sucks they hate linux, etc etc.   Look at the debian SSL debacle.   A maintainer with no software developer expertise effectively crippled SSH security for everyone who uses Debian, because his debugger was giving him warnings and he commented out code until it went away.  Yeah, I totally want to give these people more software.

                                                                           

                                                                          Look at ATI.  The 'community' begs them for years to release an open source driver so they can hack on it.  What happens?  ATI releases their driver sources, "The community" produces a lousy driver, ATI gets a bad rep for not working nice with linux and everyone says go use NVIDIA cards and their stable (closed source) drivers.  Getting into Linux is lose/lose.

                                                                           

                                                                          People in that other thread say they are willing to do anything to get photoshop on Linux.  This is a boldfaced lie.  What if I said the only way to get PS on Linux is to eliminate all distros and build a standardized Linux from a set of core libraries that are guaranteed to retain certain APIs.   The Linux community would whine and complain that they need 'choice' and 'competition'.   Like I said, you can have your choice but you will not have Photoshop, other commercial software, or marketshare worth talking about.   Clearly you will not do whatever it takes.  This is REALITY, not magical free software land where the rules of capitalism do not apply.   You cannot selectively ignore evidence that you disagree with and expect people to take you seriously.

                                                                           

                                                                          It's willful ignorance to pretend that Linux PS would not be extensively pirated.  Chris mentionned he speaks regularly to other companies that produce linux software, and he said that they confirm Adobe's marketing studies.   I would bet dollars to donuts the guys who write linux software witness overwhelming piracy rates.   Piracy is a big big problem in general, and the fact that you scoff it off speaks to your ignorance of market realities.  If people are stealing your software it cuts into your bottom line and causes legitimate users to have to pay more to cover the costs of development.  It's called the free rider problem.   Software development already has razor thin margins as it is.  Why do you think there are so many more console games than PC games these days, and PC is almost an afterthought as a port?  The money is in console development, and one of the biggest reasons is piracy.  If you ask anyone from industry they will agree.  If you ask anyone from the linux community they will pull backwards arguments out of their butts.  Who do I trust here?   And do I want to sell products to people who think that piracy is OK and no big deal?

                                                                           

                                                                          You say it's 2011, but you are stuck in 1997, when Linux was last relevant.   You and most other Linux users live in a different reality than the rest of us.  You probably don't even have a good reason for using linux anyway but you use it because either: a) you want to be special and unique based on what software you use or b) you hate microsoft for vague reasons.   Wake up, and get over it.  Windows is actually a really really good OS.   If you're not using MS because of the price, you think Adobe should sell their 1000$ software suite to people too stingy to drop 150$ for windows?  Yeah.  Good luck with that.

                                                                           

                                                                          If you think Android will save Linux, dream on.  Google takes what they want from Linux and ignores the rest.  Like the ENTIRE DESKTOP STACK.  Smart move, because the entire desktop userland for linux is in a terrible state.  Android apps will not run on linux, and won't ever.  Most people who use android don't care about Linux, if they've even heard of it at all.  In fact google submitted their changes for android back to the kernel community (as they are obligated to under the GPL) and nobody did anything with it.  It didn't get integrated into the kernel, the patches just rotted until they fell out of the kernel source tree.  Oh yeah, and the main dev for GlibC started whining about google not helping the community enough.  They followed the GPL, what more do you want?  More more more more more!

                                                                           

                                                                          I have no idea if Adobe is being bought out and I guarantee you Chris can't comment on it (company policy), but a bit of googling shows that the most recent activity for such things is a potential buyout from Microsoft.   So MS is going to port PS to Linux once they buy Adobe?   Even if it's another company, do you think the first thing they will do is embark on an unprofitable venture?   OK, then whoever buys Adobe will go the way of Sun Microsystems.

                                                                           

                                                                          On top of all this, Adobe is not the most important software to improve Linux adoption.  If you guys really want more people to Linux (which, be honest, is your ultimate motivation here), you should go bother Apple to port iTunes.  I don't care for that software personally, but it is by far the biggest obstacle to Linux adoption.  Get iTunes ported and you might have some crack at becoming a real player in the OS world.