27 Replies Latest reply on Aug 30, 2010 10:07 AM by ECBowen

    New motherboard question for a new system build.

    simon f allan

      Hi all,

       

      First off may l say a very big thankyou to Harm for his help in getting me ready to talk the talk with the computer builder re my next major upgrade, without such help l would not be able to pick flaws/add suggestions to his/my ideal machine. Again l'm in your debt. And to the many others who have also chimed in with help and suggestions re the ideal setup for editing with CS5 l say thankyou to you. My questions now are to do with the mother board that has been suggested l get and that is the EVGA Classified SR-2 http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_711_775&products_id=1 4964 my original request was for a ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366. What would your thoughts be on this please.

      And he has put in the mix a Gainsward 1536MB GTX 480  when l requested an NVIDIA GTX 480 Fermi card, can you tell me if there is a marked difference in the two please.

       

      Thanks for your help.

      Simon Allan  

        • 1. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Simon, I will leave the motherboard to others that may have some knowledge of the boards but on the graphics card it is simple.  nVidia develops the chips for the GTX series of boards and then there are many graphics board companies that buy those chips and manufacture the boards.  They themselves do not make any of the GeForce GTX series of boards.  Now on the Quadro and a few other higher end products they do manufacture more than just the chips but not the GeForce boards, so you cannot buy a GTX 480 that only says nVidia, it has to be some other brand.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            Simon,

             

            The motherboard suggested to you is a dual socket board. I don't know in what price range you are looking, but if this is the basis for your system, you are looking at dual Xeon 56xx CPU's and 12 sticks of ECC memory. Mind you, it is a great board and possibly the only dual socket board that is relatively easy to overclock, but it is not exactly easy on the wallet.

             

            There was a recent discussion about a dream machine, where I suggested a setup with this board. I have to look up the link.

             

            Bill has given you the correct answer about the video cards. The Quadro range is manufactured by nVidia and marketed by PNY. All Geforce cards have their GPU's supplied by nVidia, but within certain limits, are designed by the manufacturer. Nearly all of the brands are good, the difference is a matter of a few bucks plus or minus, more or less memory, higher clock speeds or different warranty periods.

             

            Add: Found the link, see post # 10: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/683391?tstart=0

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
              simon f allan Level 1

              Thanks Harm for the link,  l remember seeing the "dream computer builds" awhile ago but one tends to forget so much when you read so much. (now l make notes to refer back to later) My computer guy did mention the fact that this MOBO was going to be expensive... but what price do you put on performance..... he's talking about x2 Intel 980's OC to 4.0 (maybe, he's very wary re OC'ing making whole system unstable whilst editing) to put inside it with 48 GB OCZ XMP 1600Mhz DDR3 RAM.

               

               

               

              Thanks Bill for your reply l've read so much of your help to others as well l feel l'm in great hands with the advice you give.

               

               

              Sorry if l sound like a complete dolt Bill & Harm but l don't understand your answer re the Nvidia card could you dumb it down for my benifit as l am still unsure about his choice of card to the one that l want.  Fermi or not to Fermi l suppose is the question.

               

              Thanks again.

              Simon Allan

              • 4. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Simon,

                 

                To FERMI or not to FERMI? The definite and unequivocal answer is FERMI.

                 

                The question remains whether you should go for a Quadro 4000/5000 or 6000 on the one hand or a GTX 470/480 on the other hand. IMO the Quadro range is way overpriced, core wise, but compensates it by the amount of memory. Add to that the complicating factor that you are talking about a dual processor setup with Xeon 56xx CPU's (NOT i7-980's) and it may well be that video memory is very important to consider. However the 4000 with only 256 cores and 2 GB memory pales in comparison to a 470 for a third of the price. The 5000 with 352 cores and 2.5 GB looks better, but at a MSRP of around $ 2,250 it is about 4 times more expensive than the 480, which has far more cores, but only 1.5 GB. The 6000 has the same number of cores as the 470, exactly 448 cores, but has 6 GB memory and at a MSRP of $ 5,000 you pay around $ 4,500 just for the memory.

                 

                Why is memory so important? Dual processor setups are severely hampered by inter CPU/RAM communication and the latency introduced by that. It means that if one can reduce the number of transactions between CPU-RAM-GPU-Video memory-GPU-RAM-CPU and all the latency it entails, the results will improve dramatically.

                 

                Personally I would go for a 470/480 and spend the savings on a better disk setup and raid controller. With 48 G of memory there is nothing to improve in that area.

                 

                On a last note: Carefully check the memory required on that mobo and with dual Xeon 56xx CPU's. I haven't checked it, but I would be very surprised if it does NOT require ECC modules, in which case finding DDR3-1600 ECC modules is going to be extremely difficult, not to mention extremely pricey. Even DDR3-1333 ECC is difficult to find at reasonable prices. Remember, you are talking about 4 G sticks.

                • 5. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                  The EVGA board takes ECC or unbuffered. We have a client's new system coming down the queue with one of these and dual 5680's overclocked. We will get benchmarks with the PPBM5 and send them to Harm when we get everything here and up.

                  • 6. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Looking forward to the results, Eric.

                    • 7. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                      Harm I just sent you the AMD Phenom 2 X6 1090T results. They were very interesting when compared to other results. Very interesting.

                       

                      Eric

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                        simon f allan Level 1

                        Thanks Harm for your detailed reply, l'm now certain about which card to get, and l'll be Fermi with the computer guy.

                         

                        You also mentioned the CPU's, l'll have to make sure he's schooled up re the CPU's (l'm sure he has gone away to investigate such things, he is very careful when it comes to building my machines) and the type of RAM required, me thinks it would be cheaper to buy a bomb than this computer upgrade/beast.

                         

                        Thanks again for your help and time.

                         

                        Simon Allan

                        • 9. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                          Studio North Films Level 3

                          ECBowen

                           

                          any updates on th evga sr2 benchmarks. ???

                           

                          Baz

                          • 10. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                            HEHE if I could ever get done with these phone calls and figure out why it's not wanting to overclock regardless of what I set it to, I would be thrilled to give you all the results. I will get them done asap.

                             

                            Eric

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                              Ok finally got it to overclock to 4GHz. The reason I thought it was not overclocking before was because the bios does not update correctly on the post read out for the custom frequency settings. Once I figured that out then I just had to find the right BCLK that would work on this board. So far you can't clock this board as extreme as the desktops atleast with 48GB of ram but you can still hit 4GHz with the 5680's. I will get results done once we get the new Xeon fans to handle this heat at 4GHz.

                               

                              Eric

                              ADK

                              • 12. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                Studio North Films Level 3

                                sounds good, look foward to the results.

                                 

                                Baz

                                • 13. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  I apologize for the delay on these results. The new fans arrived and they definitely helped. Unfortuntely the case the customer requested for this was a horrible disappointment and would not work well with the very heavy 1600W PSU with this system. Atleast not well enough to ship. So we ordered a case we know will work and ship well. Now we are just waiting on that to get here. I would run the testing outside the case where I have the setup at now but there is a pocket of heat that is building on the ram and feeding the 2nd CPU causing the heat to build up on that CPU to much. Soon as the case gets here and we can get the setup mounted, I will have the results.

                                   

                                  Eric

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                    Studio North Films Level 3

                                    Hi, Eric

                                     

                                    what case did the customer order, and what did you recomend ???

                                     

                                    Baz

                                    • 15. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                      The Pinnacle 24 is what the Customer wanted. We had pushed for the Lian li PC-P80 which is what we ordered for him now.

                                       

                                      Eric

                                      ADK

                                      • 16. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                        Studio North Films Level 3

                                        Hi,

                                         

                                        Eric

                                         

                                        the mountain mods case has a good design with its top exhaust fans, so you are able to mount the cpu coolers to push air up, rather than push air from one cooler to another to exit from the rear. making one cpu run warmer than the other.

                                         

                                        I also have the Lian li PC-P80

                                         

                                        I changed the rear exhaust fan for a faster one, as the standard one did not pull enough Air. I also went for the optional Wheels, and a side panel with a 120mm exhaust fan mounted to it.

                                         

                                        Look foward to seeing how it performs,

                                         

                                        Baz

                                        • 17. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                          Studio North Films Level 3

                                          Eric can you give us full spec of the PC.

                                           

                                          Baz

                                          • 18. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                            We did not even assemble the Mountian Mods Case. Once we looked at the Back panel, it was easy to tell there was no way that case was going to hold the 1600W PSU during shipping. It might have been fine if the system was assembled at the final location but that PSU would have likely destroyed the system in shipping and considering the entire value of this project, we could not take the chance. The Lian Li case definitely looks good and will handle this PSU fine. I will have to see what the air flow is like once we mount the system and then consider if any changes to the fans are required.  Currently the heat is building up because we do not have the board mounted in a case so there is no air turbulence moving the pockets of heat off the ram. That is fine for idle but the 2nd CPU fan just pulls the heat in under load preventing the heatsink from dissipating the heat correctly so it continues to build up to high.

                                             

                                            2X Xeon 5680's @ 4.0 GHz

                                            48GB DDr3 @1600

                                            1 Quadro 5000

                                            1 480GTX

                                            3x 240GB Callisto SSD's

                                            1x 8 Drive 10K Raptor raid 5 array external SAS

                                            1x 8 Drive 16TB raid 6 array external SAS

                                            along with other hardware and software.

                                             

                                            Eric

                                            ADK

                                            • 19. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                              Studio North Films Level 3

                                              Eric

                                               

                                              The spec is very nice, what raid controller are you using ??? and why the two graphics cards ??? any advantages

                                               

                                              Baz

                                              • 20. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                We sell this raid card for external SAS arrays http://www.intel.com/products/server/raid-controllers/RS2PI008/RS2PI008-overview.htm

                                                 

                                                The Client requested both cards due to performance and 10 bit displayport monitoring out to an HP 30 inch monitor. The client uses an application that the Quadro does have a plugin for. The 480GTX will be used for the Cuda Acceleration in Adobe and a application that does GPU rendering.

                                                 

                                                Eric

                                                ADK

                                                • 21. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                  Studio North Films Level 3

                                                  Eric

                                                   

                                                  I did not relise that hp had a display port 30" as I am using the LP3065. your client must have the new HP ZR30W.

                                                   

                                                  Baz

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   


                                                  • 22. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                    I finally finished our internal benchmarks on the EVGA SR-2 with overclocked 5680's at 4.0GHz while I was waiting on the client's last items to show. The results were rather impressive and enlightening. The 3 layer benchmark was was a few minutes faster than the 980X overclocked to 4.0GHz which was interesting but not a large increase in performance. However the 4 Layer benchmarks were far better on this Dual overclocked Xeon. The AVCHD material was exporting to H264 about 25% faster than the overclocked 980X. The R3D 4K material was exporting to Cineform's 4K 4:4:4 RGB Codec (since The DPX Export was not working with the new Nvidia Driver in AME) only a minute or 2 faster for 3 layers but 11 to 12 minutes faster for 4 layers which was a 40 to 50% increase in performance. This is also the only system I have seen so far that can playback this 3 Layer R3D 4k Project with 5 effects per layer in 1/2 scale without dropping frames.  Nothing like seeing 24 cores maxed at 100% during playback. I will have the PPBM5 benchmark numbers coming soon. Will report further then.

                                                     

                                                    Eric

                                                    ADK

                                                    • 23. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                      Just sent Harm the initial PPBM5 results for the SR2 5680's @4.0GHz with the 480GTX as the MPE card. Will redo with the Quadro 5000 and send those next.

                                                       

                                                      Eric

                                                      ADK

                                                      • 24. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                        Studio North Films Level 3

                                                        Hi,

                                                         

                                                        Eric

                                                         

                                                        thanks for the benchmark tests,

                                                         

                                                        I was not very impressed with the results, was expecting a huge difference considering the spec of the PC.


                                                        anyway congrats

                                                         

                                                        Baz

                                                        • 25. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                          Like I said in the post regarding our internal benchmarks, the 3 layer results were not much better than the single I7 at 4GHz. The 4 layer results though were far better on the Xeon versus the single I7 at 4GHz. Also the realtime playback with our R3D 3 layer with effects benchmark actually played realtime at 1/2 scale without a single dropped frame which no other system has handled. It makes sense that the 3 layer benchmarks do not really show a large performance gap because those are only going to use so many cores and GHz becomes more important once the max cores required are available. However every layer you add realtime adds more threads that have to be processed simultaneously which is where the Xeons really start showing the performance gain. The added memory availability further increases gains due to the amount of data the CPU cores are caching to the ram and pulling from the ram. What this comes down to is editing style and workflow. If an editor uses more than 3 layers often and does allot of work in AE then the Dual Xeon is the optimal choice. Since there are so many factors in workflow that decide hardware requirements along with Codecs used, this can be very confusing to many people.

                                                           

                                                          Eric

                                                          ADK

                                                          • 26. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                            Studio North Films Level 3

                                                            Hi, Eric

                                                             

                                                            I totally understand, the confusing part for some people is when comparing a system on the ppbm5 test.

                                                             

                                                            Also the cost of a duel xeon setup.

                                                             

                                                            out of interest how mucth did it cost for the setup.

                                                             

                                                            Baz

                                                            • 27. Re: New motherboard question for a new system build.
                                                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                              If you take out the software and accessory items out like monitors and such, the total for the hardware with OS was around 19K to 20K depending on which video card you go with. With both video cards like this setup, it was over 20K.

                                                               

                                                              Eric

                                                              ADK