18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 16, 2010 4:16 AM by Geoff Addis

    Processors and Graphic Cards

    Bowler27 Level 1

      Hi!

      I am about to upgrade from Adobe Production Suite CS4 to CS5, and because of CS5s requirements will need to build a new computer. I have a tightest budget and although most things like drives etc have already been decided on I stil need to trim a bit more off the total cost. I am left with two expensive items which could be trimmed back on, but which one would be the best.

      I had planned to include a NPY FX3800 Graphics card (£780.00) and use an Intel Core i7 970(£680.00) but find that I need to cut back on one of them. There are several other cards that I could use for e.g. the GTX285 (£240) or Quadro 380 (£120) But how much difference between a £800 card and a £250 for CPU (CUDA) effects. I know roughly how much 6 cores would help (and it would be much easier to add a graphic card at later date if needed. Any help that anyone can offer would be appreciated.

       

      Bowler27

        • 1. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Bowler27 wrote:



          I had planned to include a NPY FX3800 Graphics card (£780.00) and use an Intel Core i7 970(£680.00) but find that I need to cut back on one of them. There are several other cards that I could use for e.g. the GTX285 (£240) or Quadro 380 (£120) But how much difference between a £800 card and a £250 for CPU (CUDA) effects. I know roughly how much 6 cores would help (and it would be much easier to add a graphic card at later date if needed. Any help that anyone can offer would be appreciated.

           

          Bowler27

          Right now forget everthing about the Quadro cards (FX 3800 and/or the FX 380)  first of all FX3800 is now obsolete and the FX 380 does not have enough memory for MPE.  Also the GTX 285 is no longer available from big suppliers and was EOL several months ago.  What you want for a low cost CUDA card that will perform very well would be the GTX 400 series  The low end card is the GTX 460 (~$200 USD).  You are correct in that it is better to spend (on a tight budget) more of you money on the CPU AND memory than the graphics card.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            For a list of supported nVidia CUDA cards go to the FAQ
            http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/premierepro_current/cs5_faq_sheet


            For others, the nVidia Hack thread includes info on several cards

            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/629557?tstart=0

            • 3. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
              Bowler27 Level 1

              Thank you Bill, an excellent reply and one which I will exlore.

              Mike

              • 4. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                Geoff Addis Level 1

                I'm now running an i7 950 (3.07GHz) PC fitted 6GHz RAM, ASUS GTX460 (over clock version at factory set speeds) together with a Matrox MX02mini with FAST and am getting very good results editing footage from an EX1.  The MX02 renders H.264 in better than real time.  Multiple streams with colour correction, sharpen and YUV curves are no problem; so far, a very satisfying result!  Perhaps adding more RAM may improve things further, but  I don't think that it will improve my H.264 rendering performance although it may well improve SD DVD rendering times.

                Geoff

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                  Bowler27 Level 1

                  Hi! Geoff,

                  Great suggestion which I have looked into as I am an RT.X2 user, Matrox is giving a loyalty discount for RT.X2 users at the moment. I don’t know if it’s because they haven’t yet got the drivers ready for the RT.X2, or they realize the new drivers won’t offer the same level of functionality. I looked into getting a MXO2 mini/maxi but that is the one model they don’t give a discount on. There was supposed to be a Beta driver for end of July.

                   

                  Mike

                  • 6. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                    I would recommend the I7 970 with the 470GTX. That should fit in your Budget. I would also phase out the RTX2 as well. That is phasing out at Matrox since the MXO2 series has gone PC.

                     

                    Eric

                    ADK

                    • 7. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                      Bowler27 Level 1

                      Thank you ADK

                       

                      I appreciate your reply; the GXT470 would certainly meet my budget. The main reason for choosing the GXT 460 is that physically there was not much difference between the two cards regarding spec, with the GXT being the newest of the three. (GTX 460,470, and 480). It would be helpful if a member had actually tried them and could comment on any of them.- as the 460 is only a month old, it likely that it hasn’t been used yet.

                      As far as the RT.x2 is concerned I am/was considering the MXO2 mini/maxi just waiting to see what Matrox drivers for the MT.X2 are going to be like and there is a Beta version due any time – it was due for the end of July with the resale due in the autumn.

                      Mike

                      • 8. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                        Please look at this comparison page:

                         

                        http://www.nvidia.com/object/graphics_cards_buy_now.html

                         

                        You will see the 470GTX has significantly better specs than the 460. I would only go with the 460 if the 470GTX is not within your budget. We finally brought in a 460 to benchmark versus the 470GTX with Adobe. I hope to get that done soon as I get caught up.

                         

                        BTW I would consider how much support the RTX2 update will have after it finally releases. I doubt Matrox will put much time and development resources into it even after it releases. I would keep that in mind if that is mission critical to you.

                         

                        Eric

                        ADK

                        • 9. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                          Bowler27 Level 1

                          Hi! Eric,

                          Thanks for reply, the GTX 470 is within my budget and I agree with you that it certainly has more power. I am not interested in playing games; it is purely for video editing. Your other point regarding the RT.X2 is again a worry, as we will have to see what features are omitted in the new tools. As the Beta is so close I will probably wait and test it, but will almost certainly go with the MXO2 mini with Max for the future as I have good reports regarding it

                          Mike

                          • 10. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                            I was not recommending the 470GTX as the better choice for gaming. I was recommending it as the better choice for video production. The 470GTX will be a far better card for Adobe CS5 than the 460. People have to remember that the MPE and the current Cuda  accelerated effects are just a beginning. There will be more effects added to the accelerated list over time and at some point the codecs themselves will be rewritten in Cuda. As more is added, the differences in the specs on the cards will really begin to show. Right now, Adobe is not exceeding 1.25GB Frame buffer on the 470GTX but at some point it likely will after the 460 has already been maxed out. Mind you the added CUDA cores and GPU Ram bandwidth on the 470GTX will make up for much of that when that happens. It already does some now when dealing with the extra communication that goes on between the CPU, Ram, and Video card due to the MPE. That added communication adds latency to the process as it always does and the faster the GPU can deal with the data, the less that latency effects the over all system.

                             

                            One of the main benefits to the RTX2 card were the added accelerated effects. Since those will not be in the CS5 update, there really isn't much reason to use that card. We will have to wait for the new tools to see if there are negatives to using it with CS5. If there are any problems with the release, I would not use the card at all. There is very little to gain with it and not worth any real hassle at all at this point.

                             

                            Eric

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                              Geoff Addis Level 1

                              Eric,

                               

                              I'm looking forward to your comparrison of the 470/460 cards.

                               

                              Whilst I agree that the 470 does have greater power than the 460 and that it may be more appropriate in the future, there are some advantages that the 460 has over the 470.  Length, an inch or so shorter; power requirements, 450W as against 550W recommended PSU; quiteness, some 15dB less than the 470 and cost, the 470 is about 30% more in the UK. 

                               

                              I fitted a 460 to my PC and although I had agreement from the supplier that I could change it for a 470 if I wasn't happy, I decided to keep it as it is able to cope with all the FX and  transitions that I am likely to use editing EX1 1920 x 1080 files, perhaps AVCHD would be a different story.  Also, as most of my output is to Bluray, the use of a Matrox MX02 mini with FAST ensure faster rendering than realtime, something that I don't believe that can be achieved with MPE + CUDA, correct me if I'm wrong.

                               

                              I have submitted my results of the PPBM5 test and await their appearance in the table with interest.  However, looking at the times I have achieved with only 6GB memory, I expect that they will be somewhere in the middle of the present table.  Another 6GB will be added tomorrow!

                               

                              As an aside, the real time performance of PP CS5, with CUDA as per my system, is now close to that I experience with Edius 5.12 which does not utilse  graphics card for any of its rendering (although some of the included 3rd party plug-ins do make use of the graphics card).  All very encouraging.

                               

                              Geoff

                              • 12. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                                Bowler27 Level 1

                                HI Eric!

                                Thank you for your reply, and also for the attached letter from Geoff. I will look forward to any comparison results you make with interest. I think you have helped me make up my mind regarding the graphic card in that I will go with the GTX470. As an aside I originally wrote to Adobe asking if they could recommend any of the GTX 400 series which would do a similar job to the FX series. Adobe didn’t answer my question as such as they wrote “I would like to inform you that you can use nvidia GTX 285 series” they made no mention of any other GTX series.

                                Regarding the RT.X2, as it so close to a Beta release I will wait and see what the Beta release has to offer, although I don’t hold out much hope. I would anticipate that of the features I enjoy with the RT.X2 under Adobe CS4 many will be omitted, leaving me with go by the way of the MXO2 (at least that will give me a 1920 x 1080 output on my monitors. Thank you again for your help and time in answer my query.

                                Mike

                                • 13. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                                  Geoff Addis Level 1

                                  You may be interested in the following results of Harm's PPBM5 test made with an 3.07GHz i7 950 + 12GB RAM + GTX460 (Asus o/c version running at 725MHz):

                                   

                                  Overalll time - 278 secs

                                  DVD MPEG2 - 53 secs

                                  Bluray - 115 secs

                                  AVI - 98 secs (93 secs on another run)

                                  Render - 12 secs

                                  MPE gain - 10.4

                                   

                                  Geoff

                                  • 14. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I just posted those results.

                                    • 15. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      Geoff,

                                       

                                      You did not adhere to the instructions. Please turn on hardware MPE in PR. Save the project and rerun the MPEG2-DVD test after cleaning up first according to the instructions in the ReadMe file.

                                      • 16. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                                        Bowler27 Level 1

                                        Thanks!

                                        Very interesting reading. I am certain to use GTX 460 in two weeks time when I have ordered up all the bits and startto build my PC. I just have to make up mind which make I will use, could be the Gigabyte one.

                                        Mike

                                        • 17. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                                          Geoff Addis Level 1

                                          Harm,

                                           

                                          I've just re-run the test several times and seem to have similar results

                                          each time.  I had the instructions open during the course of the tests and I

                                          believe that I followed them to the letter so I'm not sure where I am going

                                          wrong.  Anyway, here are the latest GaGa2 files.

                                           

                                          Geoff

                                          • 18. Re: Processors and Graphic Cards
                                            Geoff Addis Level 1

                                            Harm and Bill,

                                             

                                            I have just re-run the test again and here are the results together with

                                            step by step account of what I did.  Please let me know if and where I am

                                            making any mistake as I agree that the results are suspicious.

                                             

                                            Thanks for your patience.

                                             

                                            Geoff