13 Replies Latest reply on Aug 8, 2010 1:05 PM by Tim Kolb

    MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files

    CantonVideoMan

      Hi,

       

      I am editing some clips for a Client in Premiere CS5. They provided me with clips from the camera they used (Sony HDRAX2000). The files are MTS (AVCHD). I am able to edit these files in Premiere CS5 (& CS4) as well as After Effects CS5 (& CS4). However when I output the result to Quicktime using the same resolution and settings as the original, the file size is outrageous. For example a 2 minute Quicktime with a resolution of 583 X 329 ends up being 1.8 GB. If I output the file at the same settings as the clip (1920 x 1080) the 2 minute clip is nearly 20 GB!!!

       

      I attempted to convert the source files to Quicktime using the Adobe Media Encoder (I tried with both CS5 and CS4 versions).

       

      The original 8 minute MTS file that is 1.3 GB results in a Quicktime file OVER 80 GB!!!! (Both files are the same exact resolution (1920 x 1080) same bit depth (24 bit) same frame rate 29.97. I've tried several CODECS with no substantial difference. Does anyone have any experience with a workflow that would allow the final output to be of a reasonable and manageable size? The goal is to provide the highest quality Quicktime file I can at 583 x 329 and this file will ultimately be used in a web project (Flash) were file size is obviously critical.

       

      I did also try a couple of "Video converters" available on the web. They can convert the files with excellent file size results but the quality is unusable (looks obviously compressed).

       

      I do have a fair amount of experience providing these types of outputs/files for similar projects and I've never run into such a problem. Any guidance would be appreciated.

        • 1. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
          shooternz Level 6

          Without  directly addressing your file size "issue" at the moment.

           

          What do your clients want to do with what ever you edited for them?

           

          eg are you making a TV commercial, documentary, clip for a website, clip for YouTube, clip for computer display etc..etc....

          • 2. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
            Level 4

            Shooternz's question is paramount, as the delivery you want will determine your export.

             

            Also, AVCHD is highly compressed...VERY compressed....which accounts for getting bigger file sizes on export...

             

            A lot of people convert the AVCHD BEFORE editing....not AFTER you export...check out this link

             

            http://techblog.cineform.com/?p=423

             

            Good luck 

            • 3. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
              CantonVideoMan Level 1

              Hi,

               

              The end result is to use this Quicktime in a FLASH project so the video will be streamed from the web. I have done this many times for the same client, however I've never worked with files from this particular camera.

              • 4. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                CantonVideoMan Level 1

                robodog2,

                 

                Thanks for responding. I'm not sure if it was clear in my post, but when I had this issue I tried converting the source files BEFORE editing. As stated in my original post a SOURCE file (MTS) that was 1.3 GB ended up as an 80 GB Quicktime!

                 

                All of the testing I did on my original post was done on the source files BEFORE editing. Once I had the issue with the edited files I knew my best bet was to convert the source files first.

                 

                There is something clearly wrong. Thanks for the link I'll take a look.

                • 5. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  What QT CODEC have you chosen, Animation?

                   

                  That will give the client a good file to work with, but as you have seen, with a larger size. There are other CODEC's that can be chosen, but you will need to weigh the quality vs the file size. For a bit more background on what can be inside a "wrapper," like MOV, or AVI, this ARTICLE might prove useful.

                   

                  Personally, I would keep Animation as my CODEC of choice, or perhaps Export as an FLV (Flash) as that will be close to what the client wants.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                    CantonVideoMan Level 1

                    Thanks Bill,

                     

                    Yes Animation is my "normal" CODEC of choice fot the reasons you have described. After encountering this "issue" I tried several CODECs all with similar size results. There is clearly something wrong when Adobe Media encoder turns a 1.3 GB file into an 80 GB files with the same resolutions and settings as the source.

                     

                    I have a proven workflow that suits the customer well with regards to a final output of Quicktime. This gives their Flash developer maximum flexibility.I'll certainly try other outputs but there really seems to be a serious issue here.

                     

                    Thanks for the article...I'll take a look

                    • 7. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8
                      > There is clearly something wrong when Adobe Media encoder turns a 1.3 GB file into an 80 GB files with the same resolutions and settings as the source.

                       

                      No, there is nothing wrong with Adobe Media Encoder in this case. If you start with a highly compressed source file, bring it into an application that decompresses it for editing, and then render and export to an uncompressed or lightly compressed format, then you will naturally end up with a huge file at the end. Movies encoded with the Animation codec are huge. They are losslessly encoded---which is great for some uses---but they are not compressed much at all. If you want small files, choose a codec that compresses more.

                      • 8. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        As Todd says, it is the exact same as with PS. If one brings in a compressed JPEG, PS uncompresses it. If they then Save that resulting file as, say a TIFF with no LZW compression, it will be huge, compared to the original JPEG.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                          Level 4

                          Canton,

                           

                          ---------

                          I have a proven workflow that suits the customer well with regards to a  final output of Quicktime.

                          ------------

                           

                          dont forget..the mov ( quicktime) is a wrapper just like avi....and ANYTHING ( sorta ) can be the codec in it..for some stuff ( resolution, etc ) one codec is OK, while for other stuff...you need to adjust ...

                           

                          a lot of this is trial and error and seeing what you can do that way...even among the best engineers and so on....for flash as a final delivery too...

                           

                          I've heard that h264 is best with vbr 2 pass and above 1600kbps...but its really dependent on what you can get away with ( amount of motion, etc )

                           

                           

                          • 10. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                            Tim Kolb Level 1

                            Well...first, how is this workflow "proven?"  If this is not a filesize you're accustomed to, then you haven't used this 'workflow' before...

                             

                            The file sizes you are referencing are about right for an HD Animation QT file set at quality well above 90%.

                             

                            It's massive...and no longer efficient by today's standards.

                             

                            If the client needs Flash or H264, you can easily output those from Adobe Media Encoder and deliver it...

                             

                            AVCHD is tiny, so no, you aren't exporting anywhere close to the same codec as you started with.

                            • 11. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                              CantonVideoMan Level 1

                              Thanks for your reply. What I meant was the workflow I have delveloped with the client to provide a quicktime file for their use on their end is what has been proven.

                               

                              The whole reason I started this thread was hoping someone had a NEW WORKFLOW that would allow me to do this.

                               

                              I have hundreds of clips I have produced for this client that utilze the Animation codec at 100% at a small fraction of the size. In fact I have one clip that is 46 minutes in duration 1920 X 1080 60 FPS using QT Animation codec at 100% and the file is 40 GB. The difference being the source files which were shot with a different camera in DVCPRO HD format.

                               

                              So if what you're saying is I should expect an 8 minute clip to be 80 GB I'm a bit lost.

                               

                              Anyway thanks for your reply hopefully someone has some helpful advise. I'm not here to argue with anyone or to be proven wrong, I'm just looking for help.

                               

                              I'll continue to seach for other options. Thanks to all who have responded.

                              • 12. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                                Level 4

                                canton,

                                everyone is trying to help, not bum you out.  the codec avc is the advanced mp4 codec for mucho compression...thats all.  If you could give me a sample of your file and I could try to get what you want I'm more than willing to try it...spend the time to see what can be done..

                                that cineform intermediate thing sounds good to me...and your guys will probably love anything you give them that they can make into the flash video they need....I think we are all on the same page here...

                                maybe they have some suggestions for you too....as they might be dealing with these problems from others providing them with material too ?

                                 

                                good luck

                                 

                                 

                                • 13. Re: MTS (AVCHD) files from Sony HDRAX2000 produce HUGE Quicktime files
                                  Tim Kolb Level 1

                                  CantonVideoMan wrote:


                                   

                                  I have hundreds of clips I have produced for this client that utilze the Animation codec at 100% at a small fraction of the size. In fact I have one clip that is 46 minutes in duration 1920 X 1080 60 FPS using QT Animation codec at 100% and the file is 40 GB. The difference being the source files which were shot with a different camera in DVCPRO HD format.

                                   

                                  So if what you're saying is I should expect an 8 minute clip to be 80 GB I'm a bit lost.

                                   


                                  I'm not interested in arguing, but I've worked with the Animation QT codec for about 15 years....  You'll have to open a Movie inspector window on the 46 minute clip to show me because something just simply isn't technically correct there...

                                   

                                  It's either been reduced to standard definition, or it's no where near 100% for encode settings (i don't think there is a way to verify that after the fact though).  Depending on what framesize you used for the DVCProHD material, if you sourced that directly, it wouod have been 960x720 at 60 fps, or 1280x1080 at 29.97...there is no 1920x1080 at 60 fps in DVCProHD, so you made twice as many frames as you needed if it actually started as 1080.

                                   

                                  Bottom line here is that there is some aspect of this target compression that isn't in evidence...  Animation isn't as content-dependent as say H.264 is so a video of a tree standing in one place wouldn't be appreciably smaller than a football game shot handheld of the same length...it's not that dynamic unless you're feeding it computer animation...the  it gets more efficient, but not THAT much.

                                   

                                  Run a movie inspector on the file you are referencing and let me know what you see...there is something that doesn't fit there.