16 Replies Latest reply on Aug 11, 2010 3:50 PM by shooternz

    CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?

    abualexander

      If anyone from Adobe is monitoring this forum, is it possible for customers who have bought PRemiere Pro CS5 to have access to a fully functional copy of Premiere Pro CS4 while we wait for fixes to two serious bugs in the Mac release of CS5? 

       

      The problems with not being able to save project files, and the wrong aspect ratio randomly being selected when importing widescreen DV footage - discussed in threads on this forum - make CS5 unusable on a Mac currently.

       

      thanks.

        • 1. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
          dradeke Adobe Employee

          I use a Mac as my main computer (every day) and have never encountered either of those problems.  nevertheless, if you have forum links or even better bug report #'s, I could look into it.

           

          We will be having a release posted soon.

           

          dennis

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
            abualexander Level 1

            Hi Dennis,

             

            Thank you for responding.  I have spent a frustrating couple of hours on the phone to Adobe technical support and customer services, and it appears clear now what the issue is.

             

            Technical support tell me that the reason for the crashing is that Premiere Pro CS5 is not compatible with the NVIDIA Geoforce 330M graphics card which Apple ship as standard in their Macbook Pros.  The list of graphics cards which Premiere CS5 does support includes many other NVIDIA cards - but not the one which is installed as standard  in every single Macbook Pro which Apple sell.

             

            How Adobe can consider it right to sell a Mac version of this product which they know will fail to work on every single standard Macbook Pro sold is beyond me.  I know Apple and Adobe don't like each other, but this is just peverse. I have lost a week's work and $1000 purchase proce of the software (which Adobe also refuse to refund).

             

            The take-home message for anyone considering buying Premiere Pro CS5 to use on a Macbook Pro appears simple.  Don't.

            • 3. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
              dradeke Adobe Employee

              abualexander wrote:


              Technical support tell me that the reason for the crashing is that Premiere Pro CS5 is not compatible with the NVIDIA Geoforce 330M graphics card which Apple ship as standard in their Macbook Pros.  The list of graphics cards which Premiere CS5 does support includes many other NVIDIA cards - but not the one which is installed as standard  in every single Macbook Pro which Apple sell.

               

              How Adobe can consider it right to sell a Mac version of this product which they know will fail to work on every single standard Macbook Pro sold is beyond me.  I know Apple and Adobe don't like each other, but this is just peverse. I have lost a week's work and $1000 purchase proce of the software (which Adobe also refuse to refund).

               

              The take-home message for anyone considering buying Premiere Pro CS5 to use on a Macbook Pro appears simple.  Don't.

              Alex,

               

              Do you have a tech support case #?  Many of my coworkers are using the MBP's that you describe and do not have issues.  If I can look at your case, I can hopefully troubleshoot it.  Many Mac people including myself are using CS5 effectively.

               

              Dennis

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                abualexander Level 1

                Hi Dennis,

                 

                The case number 181734142.

                 

                Your technical support colleagues referred me to the list of compatible graphics cards, which does not include the ones in the Macbook Pros.  They also said I could take my Macbook pro to the Apple store and have the graphics card replaced for one which will work with Premiere CS5.  However from what I gather after a bit of Googling, this does not look possible.  Is that correct?

                 

                If you know differently about the crashing/compatibility issue it would be helpful to know - as this is what I have been told directly by your technical support colleagues after very lengthy discussions, and them having remote access to my desktop.

                 

                thanks

                • 5. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  You either got bad information (really bad, frankly) or you misunderstood what the list of "compatible cards" was. I don't believe for a moment that your particular GPU is "incompatible" with Premiere; that makes no sense. What is more likely the case is that you were given the list of cards that are compatible with and enable Mercury Playback Engine (MPE) hardware acceleration. That is, indeed, a short list--at least, the list of official supported cards right now is rather short, but there is a "hack" that can be performed with certain other nVidia cards to enable this acceleration. I doubt that that's the case with the GPU in your MBP, however.

                   

                  In any event, I don't think that the GPU is at fault here. Something else is going on, but without gobs of more detail, that's hard to pinpoint. Making a blanket statement that a particular piece of software must be wholly incompatible with a particular piece of hardware is ludicrous, though--I understand you're frustrated with the problem, but don't you think you'd be reading about dozens/hundreds/thousands of the same issues if that were truly the case?

                  • 6. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                    abualexander Level 1

                    Hi Colin,

                     

                    Thanks for trying to assist. It is trully appreciated.

                     

                    It is of course possible that the information I have been given by Adobe technical support is completely wrong.  I didn't misunderstand them though - as what they told me, after referring it up to a supervisor, was unambiguous.

                     

                    I too was extremely surprised to be told that the graphics card could affect the application's ability to save a project file and close down.  I could not see why the graphics card would play any part in just saving a file.  However I was told unambiguously that it was graphics card incompatibility that caused the problem here.

                     

                    I was also directed to the third-party hardware compatibility list while on the phone to the technical support supervisor who told me, again unambiguously, that only the graphics cards on this list are supported by Premiere CS5 and that having the card which comes in the Macbook Pro, which is not on the list, is the cause of the crashing.

                     

                    I was told - and I took notes here (!) - that 95% of Adobe CS5 for Mac customers replace the standard graphics card on a Macbook Pro with a replacement card from the list, and that I should have checked what cards the application was compatible with before buying the computer .  No matter that at the point of purchasing the computer I had not decided between FCP and Adobe.  And one may indeed wonder what the other 5% of customers do.

                     

                    You are right - this seems ludicrous.  But it is not my statement - I am just reporting what Adobe technical support say.  Would I expect to be reading about others with the same issue?  Yes.  Here for example: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/696786?tstart=0

                     

                    The other bug I am encountering - the random wrong aspect ratio when capturing DV widescreen bug, reported here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/3018990?tstart=0 seems only to have this one thread mentioning it, even though it is itself a very serious problem, acknowledged as a bug by Adobe, and unresolved after three months.

                     

                    I mentioned that CS5 had worked for a while (a week) before fallingover on me, and questioned why it would work initially if there was a fundamental graphics card incompatibility.  I asked if this could be a manifestation of the project file bloating issue reported elsewhere - and already acknowledged as a bug (my project file has reached 89Megs).  I was told this was not the case though and that the problem was the graphics card.

                     

                    So what am I to do?  I spend two hours on the phone to technical support and receive a response which, as you point out makes little sense.  But I have an application which is completely useless and has lost me a lot of time and money.

                    • 7. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                      I'm looking up the case based on the case number. I'll take care of following up with the Technical Support staff that initially gave this information.

                      • 8. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                        As Colin has said, the list of supported cards for Premiere Pro CS5 is just a list of cards on which the GPU acceleration portion of the Mercury playback engine functions. If you don't have such a card, the expected behavior is that rendering of effects will all be done on the CPU, not the GPU. The expected behavior is not a crash.

                         

                        Which version of Mac OSX are you using? Is it Mac OSX v10.6.4? If so, see this thread, which talks about some conflicts between Mac OSX v10.6.4 and NVIDIA drivers in the context of OpenGL. I don't know that this is causing the problem that you're seeing, but it is the cause of the greatest number of crashes that I've been seeing lately.

                         

                        BTW, I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro with just such a card that is also running Premiere Pro CS5. As Dennis suggested, many of us Adobe folks have and use these MacBook Pro computers, and we're using the stock cards.

                        • 9. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                          dradeke Adobe Employee

                          abualexander wrote:

                           

                          (my project file has reached 89Megs). 

                           

                          That's not a small project file size and I wonder how much memory you have in your system?  As the project gets larger, its looking at more and more clips, and each of those take up a bit of memory.  If you said you had 4GB of memory only, I might ask to see if you could import a portion of your project (perhaps a smaller timeline) into a new project and see how your overall functionality is.  This memory vs. project size generally holds true for all NLE's.

                           

                          Perhaps you can share a bit more on the system and the project.

                           

                          • system specs
                          • project file size
                          • # of footage items in the entire project
                          • # of timelines, PSDs, etc.

                           

                          Dennis

                          • 10. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                            abualexander Level 1

                            Dennis/Todd,

                             

                            Thank you again both for your input.

                             

                            I so wish I had been talking with you both this afternoon and not the telephone technical support department.  Dennis - I think you may have identified the reason for the crashing.

                             

                            Firstly - I'm running OSX 10.6.4 - but have no flickering screen problem.

                             

                            It's a 17" Macbook Pro with 2.53GHz i5 processor and 4GB ram.

                             

                            The project contains a LOT of footage.  It is four hour-long multicam (3 camera) sequences.  Probably about 12 hours in total of SD widescreen DV pal footage.  Some of the video is mxf files originally shot in SD on an EX1R, some is .mov files recorded using Onlocation (I won't get started on the fact that this seems to be cropped as 14:9 pillarbox rather than 16:9 - a problem for another time) and some captured off DV tape.

                             

                            There is a fair amount of colour correction in the sequences.

                             

                            From what you say Dennis - it seems like the crashing could simply be a system resources issue after all this duff info, which could explain why it worked for a time then hit a wall.

                             

                            The question then is how to get round it.  I tried the suggestion I read on the thread about project file bloating, of importing a single sequence into a new project - however when I did this I didn't get any of the effects I had applied in the original project.  I tried deleting sequences and removing material from the original project - but again couldn't do that as it would just hang and crash.  Is the only way forward to import single sequences into individual projects and then do all the colour correction work again?

                             

                            thanks again

                            • 11. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                              You suggested that you thought that your problem might be related to the project bloating bug. In case you were right about that, I've asked someone who has experience helping people past the project bloating bug to have a look at this thread. Stay tuned.

                              • 12. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                                abualexander Level 1

                                Todd,

                                 

                                Thanks for that.  I have tried again to work around this with one of the sequences and this time successfully imported it into a new project and resaved it, with the effect/colour correction in place.  I don't know why I didn't seem to have the effects when I tried this before - likely I did something wrong.

                                 

                                In any case, as a workaround, this does work for the large project/freezing/crashing issue.

                                 

                                I am much obliged to you and Dennis, and also to Colin for originally throwing doubt on the incorrect information I was given by the phone  technical support department.  Thank you guys!

                                 

                                I guess this thread illustrates a problem when incorrect information is given by technical support on the phone - as my subsequent reporting what I was told about CS5 being plain incompatible with the graphics card in a Macbook Pro means that this misinformation can now be thrown up by a search engine for evermore.  Would it perhaps be in the best interests everyone, and of avoiding people getting wrong information if they don't read the whole thread, for this incorrect info to be taken out from this thread?  I would not normally advocate sanitizing a forum's posts, but this information was clearly wrong.

                                 

                                Finally - could we have a heads up of when a bug-fix release to solve the project-bloating and DV capture aspect ratio problems is expected?

                                 

                                Many thanks again.

                                • 13. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                                  shooternz Level 6
                                  Finally - could we have a heads up of when a bug-fix release to solve the project-bloating and DV capture aspect ratio problems is expected?

                                   

                                   

                                  Are you absolutely sure "DV Capture ratio problems"  is an issue and not OE?

                                   

                                  How does the issue display itself?  ie can you give us some details of your experience in this regard. ( your footage and your project settings would be good to start with)

                                   

                                  I am very wary of what people expect from DV ...and wide screen, squeeze, anamorphic and letterbox.

                                  • 14. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                                    abualexander Level 1

                                    Hi,

                                     

                                    I don't know what "OE" means.  This is definitely an issue though.  Please see this thread:

                                     

                                    http://forums.adobe.com/message/3018990?tstart=0

                                     

                                    You randomly get a saved Quicktime file with the wrong aspect ratio.

                                    • 15. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                      > I guess this thread illustrates a problem when incorrect information is given by technical support on the phone - as my subsequent reporting what I was told about CS5 being plain incompatible with the graphics card in a Macbook Pro means that this misinformation can now be thrown up by a search engine for evermore.  Would it perhaps be in the best interests everyone, and of avoiding people getting wrong information if they don't read the whole thread, for this incorrect info to be taken out from this thread?  I would not normally advocate sanitizing a forum's posts, but this information was clearly wrong.

                                       

                                       

                                      I think that it's useful to have the thread stay as it is so that someone who has similar misconceptions can see them refuted in detail.

                                      • 16. Re: CS4 while Adobe fix the problems with CS5 for Mac?
                                        shooternz Level 6
                                        You randomly get a saved Quicktime file with the wrong aspect ratio.

                                         

                                        Ah ha...now that I can fix for you ..if you have QT Pro.

                                         

                                        BTW: That behavoiur is typical of QT Player and is not actually random.

                                         

                                        Method:

                                         

                                        Open your mov in QT Pro

                                        Show Movie Properties  (Ctrl-J)

                                        Click on Video Track

                                        Click on Visual Settings Tab

                                        Un check the Preserve Aspect Ratio box

                                         

                                        (Here is where you now need to do some math to change the 4x3 to 16:9 ratio)

                                         

                                        Divide the Vertical Pixel Dimension  by 1.78 and enter the result in the Vert Dimension box

                                        Ensure the Preserve Aspect Ratio box is UNCHECKED

                                        Hit Tab key and notice the image in the QT window change.

                                         

                                        In the QT Window Menu - File>Save  (SAVE is an  IMPORTANT STEP)

                                         

                                        Here is an example:

                                         

                                        QT movie Original is 320x240

                                        Divide 240 by1.78    ( ie. 240/1.78=134)

                                         

                                        Bingo!