14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 19, 2010 2:17 PM by Underwind

    HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements

    Overwind

      I recently bought a cheap HD camcorder and am generally pleased with  what it delivers. Direct connection to a full HD TV gives excellent  results except for somewhat weak audio,

      I was very surprised to find that having copied the clips from the SD  card via a card reader that I could then edit these on my old Premiere  Elements 2 SW. The clips are 1080p x1440 and are seen as .mp4 files.

      However when I add these clips as media in Premiere the displayed aspect  ratio (onscreen and in the thumbnails)  is 21:9. so everything is  squashed top to bottom. If I go to interpret footage it says:-

      Use aspect ratio from file  -HD Anamorphic 1080 (1.333)

      If I then change this to Conform to -  Square pixels (1.0)
      Then everything looks fine. Also then a subsequently produced (SD) DVD plays back a 16:9 picture.

        Previuosly SD anamorphic material was   compressed left to right not top to bottom?

      I am a bit confused as to whats happening here - can any one clarify this for me.?

      BTW the frame rate displays as 900 fps?

      TIA

        • 1. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          It could well be your video camera. How does it record? Is it true anamorphic?

           

          What does G-SPOT say about your AV files? Posting a screen-cap of the program's screen will be helpful.

           

          Good luck, and welcome to the forum,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
            Overwind Level 1

            Hi THX for your pronto reply. I have G

            Spot installed and I hope the following jp

            eg is visible

             

            GSpot.jpg

            Your comments appreciated?

             

            Message was edited by: Overwind    Just noticed the date/time is also wrong This was 6 Aug 2010 about 14.30!  - checked date /time on camcorder and is OK

            • 3. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
              Underwind

              Hi I am Overwind but this forum for some reason will not let me access original account.

               

              Has anyone any comments following my posting of the G Spot report?

               

              TIA

              • 4. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                Underwind Level 1

                Hi Again.

                 

                OP here under new name as per previous post

                 

                I provided info as per request  but still no feedback?

                 

                Be good to hear even if "No Idea" - at the present I feel as if my query has disappeared into the Mojave desert!

                • 5. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                  rtprtp Level 1

                  What camera are you using?

                   

                  Stan

                  • 6. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                    nealeh Level 5

                    Your file is not providing any detail about the Pixel Aspect Ratio.

                     

                    ratio.png

                     

                    You haven't answered the questions Bill posed:

                    It could well be your video camera. How does it record? Is it true anamorphic?

                     

                    Cheers,
                    --
                    Neale
                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                    • 7. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                      Underwind Level 1

                      Hi THX for your responses

                       

                      OK the camera is a Hitachi DZHV565E ( A clone of a Sanyo Xacti)

                       

                      It records on SD cards as .mp4. I am using an 8GB class 6.

                       

                      The clips are anamorphic as they are 1080x1440 and playback OK as 1080x1920 directly either on my HDTV or my PC.

                       

                      I have no idea why G-spot does not report a PAR - perhaps this may be due to my version of G-spot possibly not being the latest? Will look for updates and report back..

                      • 8. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                        Underwind Level 1

                        It appears my version of G-Spot is the latest althogh I note it has not been updated since 2007.

                        • 9. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                          nealeh Level 5

                          Try running the clip through MediaInfo as well.

                           

                          Cheers,
                          --
                          Neale
                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                          • 10. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                            nealeh Level 5

                            So it is this camera: Hitachi DZ-HV565E High Definition (1080p) SD Video Camera .... PRE has many problems with clips produced by these new breeds of mini-camcorders, often because the manufacturer's play fast and loose with their use of the  and standards. Generally you will have more success by converting your footage before loading into PRE.

                             

                            These articles will give you some useful information (the Flip article discusses Hi-Def MP4):

                             

                            Cheers,
                            --
                            Neale
                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                            • 11. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                              Underwind Level 1

                              Thanks for your comments nealeh

                               

                              I ran the file through MediaInfo . Output as below:-

                               

                              General

                               

                              Complete name                    : C:\Documents and Settings\My Documents\Video\PICT0003.MP4

                               

                              Format                           : MPEG-4

                               

                              Format profile                   : JVT

                               

                              Codec ID                         : avc1

                               

                              File size                        : 28.6 MiB

                               

                              Duration                         : 29s 262ms

                               

                              Overall bit rate                 : 8 204 Kbps

                               

                              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-04-26 18:15:29

                               

                              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-04-26 18:15:29

                               

                              AMBA                             :   

                               

                              Video

                               

                              ID                               : 1

                               

                              Format                           : AVC

                               

                              Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec

                               

                              Format profile                   : Main@L4.1

                               

                              Format settings, CABAC           : Yes

                               

                              Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames

                               

                              Format settings, GOP             : M=3, N=15

                               

                              Codec ID                         : avc1

                               

                              Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding

                               

                              Duration                         : 29s 262ms

                               

                              Bit rate mode                    : Variable

                               

                              Bit rate                         : 8 059 Kbps

                               

                              Width                            : 1 440 pixels

                               

                              Height                           : 1 080 pixels

                               

                              Display aspect ratio             : 16:9

                               

                              Frame rate mode                  : Constant

                               

                              Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps

                               

                              Color space                      : YUV

                               

                              Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0

                               

                              Bit depth                        : 8 bits

                               

                              Scan type                        : Progressive

                               

                              Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.173

                               

                              Stream size                      : 28.1 MiB (98%)

                               

                              Title                            : Ambarella AVC

                               

                              Language                         : English

                               

                              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-04-26 18:15:29

                               

                              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-04-26 18:15:29

                               

                              Color primaries                  : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177

                               

                              Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361

                               

                              Matrix coefficients              : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

                               

                              Audio


                              ID                               : 2
                              Format                           : AAC
                              Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
                              Format version                   : Version 4
                              Format profile                   : LC
                              Format settings, SBR             : No
                              Codec ID                         : 40
                              Duration                         : 29s 120ms
                              Bit rate mode                    : Constant
                              Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
                              Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
                              Channel positions                : Front: L R
                              Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
                              Stream size                      : 455 KiB (2%)
                              Title                            : Ambarella AAC
                              Language                         : English
                              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-04-26 18:15:29
                              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-04-26 18:15:29

                               


                              Can you deduce anything more from this?

                               

                               

                              Will read up on your links

                               

                               

                              Thanks agaain

                               

                              Underwind

                              • 12. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                                nealeh Level 5

                                Correction:

                                nealeh wrote:

                                 

                                PRE has many problems with clips produced by these new breeds of mini-camcorders, often because the manufacturer's play fast and loose with their use of the  and standards.

                                The end of that sentence should read:

                                manufacturer's play fast and loose with their use of the codec and standards.

                                 

                                 

                                Cheers,
                                --
                                Neale
                                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                • 13. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                                  nealeh Level 5

                                  I think I have identified a possible reason for the difficulty PRE has with your clips.

                                   

                                  Excerpts from your MediaInfo details:

                                  Format               : MPEG-4
                                  Codec ID             : avc1
                                  Codec ID/Info        : Advanced Video Coding
                                  Width                : 1 440 pixels
                                  Height               : 1 080 pixels
                                  Display aspect ratio : 16:9
                                  Scan type            : Progressive
                                  Title                : Ambarella AVC


                                  Audio
                                  Format               : AAC
                                  Format/Info          : Advanced Audio Codec
                                  Title                : Ambarella AAC

                                   

                                  Note that the codec being used is from 'Ambarella' and from the Ambrella website:

                                  Ambarella’s No Compromise on H.264 Main/High Profile

                                   

                                  MPEG-2-based high definition video is compressed on HDV tape  at the rate of 25 Mbps. For the hybrid digital camera/camcorder device, the compression challenge is how to store high quality high definition video on flash memory-and archive the content on a PC or a hard drive. Nothing but a compression gain of 2.5x over MPEG-2 allows for the recording of one hour of high-quality digital HD on a 4GB flash memory. 


                                  Compression Quality

                                  In order to meet this challenge, Ambarella had to depart from the “MPEG-2-like” approach to H.264 compression where the compression strategy is essentially MPEG-2 with an H.264 syntax. Instead, Ambarella has thoroughly implemented all the features that make H.264 a more powerful compression technique.

                                   

                                  These features include:

                                  • “1/4 Pixel” motion compensation
                                  • Multiple motion compensation block sizes
                                  • Advanced intra-prediction
                                  • Normative de-blocking filter
                                  • Better motion vector prediction and direct-mode for motion overhead management
                                  • Multiple reference frames
                                  • Context Adaptive Binary Arithmetic Coding (CABAC)

                                   

                                  I don't pretend to understand much of this but I think that phrase "Ambarella had to depart  from the “MPEG-2-like” approach to H.264 compression where the compression strategy  is essentially MPEG-2 with an H.264 syntax." may be what trips up PRE.

                                   

                                  From their conclusion:

                                  Conclusion

                                  Ambarella has factored in the trade-offs between high quality video compression and low power requirements of a portable device to develop the first HD H.264 SoC that compromises neither.

                                   

                                  The inference here "develop the first HD H.264 SoC" is that Ambarella have developed a unique codec for their camera. Unfortunately PRE works best with standard codecs. These modern highly compressed formats trip it up most of the time.

                                   

                                  So, in conclusion, I think you will get best results with your camcorder if you convert the clip before importing to PRE (see previous links).

                                   

                                  Cheers,
                                  --
                                  Neale
                                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                  • 14. Re: HD Pixel aspect ratio - Premiere elements
                                    Underwind Level 1

                                    Hi

                                    You are probably right. I have just started to convert the .mp4 files to DV.avi

                                     

                                    However as my original "test" project gave no problems I was disappointed in that firstly the aspect ratio of the .avi had reverted to anamorphic 4:3 (i.e. tall thin people!)* bur more alarming  also contrary to my initial trials about 50% of the sound track was muted or had disappeared

                                     

                                    *I have S/W to turn the w/s flag on or off in a disc image before burning.

                                     

                                    BTW your link to the camcorder is great - however I paid about half the price mentioned on there!