14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 18, 2010 12:08 PM by Ann Bens

    Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.

    David Zeno Level 1

      Hello everyone,

       

      Hopefully a good question here.

       

      I shoot everything in HD format, but I've been asked to create a montage of some movie footage for friends, and I wish to have

      my name appearing on the video ( video overlay from the titler ),

       

      how do I make for certain that my name will appear correctly on the DVD when played on a wide screen TV, and also

      an older non-HD tube TV.

       

      I still know many people who do not have a wide screen LCD TV, and so this makes me wonder if video from a DVD disc I make will

      play ( display ) differently on an older tube TV ( non-wide screen ) .... will my name be cut off on the screen ?

       

      Does video on a DVD disc play differently ( display ) on an older tube TV than it does on a wide screen LCD TV ?

       

      Lastly, how do I insure my name shows up on both types of TV when being played on a regular old DVD player ?

       

      Thanks for your time !

       

      Dave.

        • 1. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
          näugumine

          Hello Dave.

           

          A short quotation from the User manual:

           

          About safe margins in the Titler

           

           

           

          The title-safe and action-safe margins in the drawing area of the Titler designate the safe zones. These margins are enabled by default.Safe zones are useful when you edit for broadcast and videotape. Most TVs overscan the picture. Overscanning places the outer edges of the picture outside the viewing area. The amount of overscanning is not consistent across TVs. To ensure that everything fits within the area that most TVs display, keep text within the title-safe margins. Keep all other important elements within the action-safe margins.Note: If you are creating content for the web or for CD, the title-safe and action-safe margins do not apply to your project. The entire image is displayed in these media.

          • 2. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Dave,

             

            There is no control on how some user's players and TV's will be set up to handle 4:3 material. There are many variations, and these can be in the equipment and in their settings.

             

            If you position the overlay properly for 4:3 and the overscan (Title Safe Area), it will be close, when they play Widescreen in most cases.

             

            If they have chosen Pan & Scan, it might well be cut off the bottom. Unfortunately, if you try to account for that, then it will appear fairly high on the 4:3 TV's.

             

            I'm assuming that you want this for a credit, and not as a watermark. If the latter, just place in the center of the Frame, but I doubt that is what you want.

             

            One day in the future, this will not be a problem, as everyone will be on a 16:9 TV, and most will be HD. Then with Square Pixels, you can just go to the Title Safe corner (some still have a bit of overscan, though not many), and be done with it. So long as some users have 4:3's, some 16:9 SD's and some 16:9 HD's, it's a little bit of a crapshoot, especially if you want to keep the frame as clean, as is possible, from a design point.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

             

            PS - personally, I'd just do a credit Title in the beginning and at the end, and not try to do the overlay, but you might have strong reasons for doing the overlay.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 4. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
              David Zeno Level 1

              Hello everyone,

               

              since there are many great answers I'll just thank every one of you for your input, and say it's very much apprecaited.

              nice graphic Ann, thanks for jumping in.  That reminds me.... I need to find your great tutorial on Youtube where you changed

              the color of a flag, while leaving everything else the same ... something that many don't know can be done in Premiere.

               

              Thanks Bill, good info, and I'll keep it in mind, and it's nice knowing that you are there, for us all_the_time.

               

              and thanks to the first responder, näugumine for the help, it's appreciated.  I guess it's off to test this and see what it does on

              my LCD tv and then also on an older tube TV, even though results may vary, but I'll keep Ann's graphic in mind when creating

              the DVD.

               

               

               

              Thanks again to everyone,

              Dave.

              • 5. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Dave,

                 

                You are fortunate to have the older CRT 4:3 to test with. Those are getting a bit rare, but it does seem that a lot of clients have them!

                 

                Good luck, and let us know what you go with.

                 

                Hunt

                • 6. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  David,

                   

                  I created a Photoshop action (where I do most of my titling) that creates 4:3 center cut guides in a widescreen or HD document preset. Since I do a number of TV spots that are edited in widescreen/HD, but need to have the titles protected for 4:3 viewing, this helps ensure that titles are properly displayed. The guides look like this:

                   

                  center-cut-safe-title.png

                   

                  The inner "box" is the title safe area, while the box surrounding it is the action safe. Anything outside of that is going to be lost on a 4:3 tube (or at least one that is not set up to display 4:3 letterbox). I created the action to use percentage instead of fixed dimensions like pixels, so that you can use it on a DV widescreen, 720p HD, or 1080i/p HD Photoshop document. Feel free to download the action here.

                  • 7. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                    David Zeno Level 1

                    Hi Colin !

                     

                    hey, thanks very much for the .atn file , it's much appreciated !

                     

                    Dave.

                    • 8. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                      Level 4

                      Colin's safe area for 4:3 is what my old dvd player and old crt tv CROPPED my exported ntsc widescreen (16:9) video to.  Played OK on new digital tv but was totally cropped on the old tv....where I lost all the image on the outside of Colin's "box" for 4:3.

                       

                      So my experience equals what Colin has depicted with his photoshop safety area.

                       

                      I did a workaround just to watch the entire 16:9 frame on my old tv by starting a new project at 4:3 (720x480) instead of 16:9 ( 720x480) and putting my video into the 4:3 space, and " scaling " it down until the right and left edge of frame was even with the right and left 4:3 space...which left black bars on the top and bottom.  I exported this and burned dvd and when played on the old tv I see the whole image in a sorta forced " letterbox" look....

                       

                      That dvd only works well on the old tv....for the purpose of seeing the whole image because being cropped was too much loss of action etc.

                       

                      I labeled the dvd carefully so I knew which one was for digital and which one was for "old" tv .

                      • 9. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                        shooternz Level 6

                        FWIW:

                         

                        Because I also need to protect SD 4:3 for broadcast HD  titles / graphics...I have my safe areas set up in PPRO  as:

                         

                        Title Safe - 28% Horiz.  10% Vertical

                        Action Safe - 18% Horiz    0%  Vertical

                         

                        Works fine and have had no broadcast rejections based on using these.

                        • 10. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          There's no need to do that, even with an "old" DVD player (probably). Most DVD players will have three output options for handling FHA (full height anamorphic) video:

                           

                          • 4:3 Full Screen, which is for display on a 4:3 set, and does a center cut of the widescreen image. That's what the Photoshop action file above is for.
                          • 4:3 Letterbox, which is for display on a 4:3 set, and shrinks the widescreen image to the width of the display, maintaining the aspect ratio.
                          • 16:9 Full Screen, which is for display on a 16:9 set, and doesn't scale the image at all. The video is output as a horizontally squeezed 4:3 image, which the 16:9 display expands to fully fill the frame.

                           

                          Nomenclature and exact wording varies by manufacturer, but you should have some version of these. All you'd need to do is output a widescreen FHA MPEG-2 file (basically, export it as "16:9" even though it's actually 4:3 with a different PAR), and set your DVD player to 4:3 Letterbox.

                           

                          If you know you'll always be displaying a widescreen DVD on either a 4:3 set with the 4:3 Letterbox mode, or on a widescreen TV, you can put your graphics out to the 80% safe title area. However, if there's a chance that someone will view your widescreen DVD on 4:3 set, but will be viewing it as a center crop (e.g. NOT letterboxed), you need to use the 60% safe title area like depicted above.

                          • 11. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                            Level 4

                            ------------

                            There's no need to do that, even with an "old" DVD player (probably).  Most DVD players will have three output options for handling FHA (full  height anamorphic) video:

                            -------------------

                             

                            my mitsubishi dd 4020 has no such options. 

                             

                            anyway, thank you for the atn file...can I share this with other people as well ??

                            • 12. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                              Absolutely. Share the love, man

                               

                              (And get a newer DVD player while you're at it )

                              • 13. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                                Level 4

                                Colin,

                                -----------
                                get new DVD player
                                ------------
                                Boy, you can say THAT again !
                                Thanks...will share your very cool atn file...

                                 

                                mitsubishi dd 4020 reviews online:
                                ----------------
                                Not reliable at all. Freezes up and powers off. Can not use without unpluging and pluging back in
                                ----------------

                                you cannot hook this DVD player up through a VCR without triggering Macrovision -- whether you have pressed the record button on your VCR or not. Perhaps Mitsubishi is unaware that home computers now have DVD burners and it is not unreasonable to expect that someone might want to make a VHS copy of a DVD which is not protected by copyright law

                                -----------------
                                has no progressive scan
                                -----------------
                                no variable output aspect ratios
                                -----------------

                                a large pile of about 3000 of these might make a good small boat mooring
                                ----------------

                                Currently my dvd player is unplugged....LOL...

                                • 14. Re: Making sure your name / logo are visible on an old TV / played on a DVD disc.
                                  Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  David wrote:

                                   

                                  function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                  That reminds me.... I need to find your great tutorial on Youtube where you changed

                                  the color of a flag, while leaving everything else the same ... something that many don't know can be done in Premiere.


                                  http://www.youtube.com/user/AnnBensTutorials

                                   

                                   

                                  Shooternz wrote:

                                  function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                  Title Safe - 28% Horiz.  10% Vertical

                                  Action Safe - 18% Horiz    0%  Vertical

                                  Good idea.