14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 16, 2010 2:20 PM by Harm Millaard

    Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!

    Crooked Path Films Level 1

      Hey guys,

       

      I bumped up from CS4 on XP to a new computer with CS5.   My specs...GeForce GTX 285, Windows 7 64bit, Intel i7, 12gb ram.  The project is taking advantage of the MPE as verified in the project settings.

       

      I opened up a project that I originally had on CS3 and the good news is that everything opened up just fine and dandy except for one effect (lens flare) which I easily re-applied.  More good news is that the timeline plays seamlessly without any stutters and all the bells and whistles that makes CS5 very worth it.

       

      So it came time to export the file.  I am exporting to h264, 480p.  Same settings as I did before on CS4, which took about 3 hours to export the 30 minute timeline.  Only now on the new system, the rendering took ******* 6 hours!

       

      I'm a little upset, I was under the impression that I would be able to render faster.  Is this not the case?

       

      Here's a screenshots of my export settings:

       

      screenshot2.jpg

       

      screenshot.jpg

        • 1. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
          Steve Liles Level 1

          Hi there,

          There's another thread that mentioned there is a possible bug with some export formats and the solution is to close Premier down and open up AME and Open the Premier Sequence you are trying to render and render it purely from AME. I tried this and without the Maximum Render quality utilised I got the render going about 25% quicker than previously under my old system which sounds similar to yours. However, I don't know really what is happening with the Maximum Quality settings and whether I am losing something by not checking them.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            Richard,

             

            If you have hardware assisted MPE turned on, there is no sense in using MRQ or Preview files. It slows down the provess without adding anything. CUDA/MPE always uses maximum quality, meaning linear color. Only if you have disabled CUDA/MPE does it make sense to tick both options.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
              Steve Liles Level 1

              Thanks for clearing up the use of MRQ and Preview Harm, I can't tell the difference and that's obviously why but didn't know if on a bigger TV with eyes that can see better than mine would there be something there. What about "Render at Maximum Depth"? I understand this renders at the maximum 32bit colour depth but if I'm filming in HD 1080i AVCHD am I gaining anything by checking this box. It sounds nice but not sure where I find the information to decide if this gives me a better more vibrant colour, I can't see the difference myself.

              • 4. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                What is your number and setup of hard drives?

                • 5. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Maximum bit depth only makes sense if you ingest (over HD-SDI) 4:2:2 material, and then export as 4:2:2 material with 10 bpc. In your case you start out with 8bpc 4:2:0 material so there is no sense whatsoever to use maximum bit depth.

                   

                  BTW. bpc means bits per channel, so 8 bpc translates to 24 bits RGB or 32 bits RGB-A (with alpha).

                  • 6. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                    Steve Liles Level 1

                    Thanks so much Harm, that's much better than the explanation in the Help Folder. I can rest at ease now with my unchecked boxes and faster render times!!!

                    • 7. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Let us know if it helped getting your encode times down to hopefully 1 hour or less.

                      • 8. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                        Crooked Path Films Level 1

                        Harm, I'm confused.  You mentioned there's no need to use maximum rendering with MPE and a cuda card, but it IS needed when exporting 4:2:2 and 10 bit colorspace? 

                         

                        I'm editing 4:2:2 files and need the colorspace for Magic Bullet for sure....so maximum rendering or not?

                         

                        The good news is I tried queing the export to media encoder and also unchecking maximum render quality and it's already noticeably faster.  I'd rather use AME anyways so I can continue to work.

                        • 9. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          No and no.

                           

                          Did you just pad your color space with 0's? How did you ingest from a 4:2:0 camera? Why? MRQ and MBD are two complete different and non-related things. Do you output over a dedicated HD-SDI capable card for what delivery?

                          • 10. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                            Crooked Path Films Level 1

                            Thanks Harm.  But first of all, I don't "INGEST" anything, I import files that are 4:2:2 colorspace.  Secondly, my camera records 4:2:2, not 4:2:0.  Not sure where you're getting this info.  I didn't "pad" anything either.  I guess I'm just confused.

                            • 11. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              AVCHD is 4:2:0.

                               

                              4:2:0
                              l
                              4:2:0 is a very common color sampling system.  It’s used  by PAL DV, by DVD, by HDV and AVC-HD and XDCAM-HD.  It delivers the same  color resolution as 4:1:1, but in a different pattern.  In 4:2:0 you  still have blocks of four pixels being averaged to one color, but in  4:2:0 it’s done in a 2x2 grid, whereas in 4:1:1 it’s done in a 4x1  block.

                               

                              4:2:0 suffers from the same blocky color  issues and poor color fidelity resolution that 4:1:1 does, and for the  same reasons (i.e., it’s still averaging four pixels together to deliver  one single color).  4:2:0 delivers similar problems with chroma keying  and with shooting under solid-color lights (such as shooting a play  under a red wash or a blue wash of light); just in a different pattern.

                               

                              4:2:2
                              l

                              4:2:2 is the color sampling format used  by most professional formats.  Digital Betacam, DVCPRO50, DVCPRO-HD, and  MPEG-IMX are all examples of formats that use 4:2:2.  In 4:2:2 every  pair of pixels gets their colors averaged together, in a 2x1 pattern.   The immediate benefit is twice as high color resolution, which obviously  leads to much better results when chroma keying.  Every scan line has  its own color information, and every pixel pair has its own discrete  color information, so the only possible color error would be limited to 1  pixel’s worth, and even then it could be said that it’s a half-pixel’s  worth of error because the color of that pixel will be made of at least  half of the proper underlying color.

                               

                              Richard, Things may have gotten confused by the posts of Steve Liles, who mentioned AVCHD.

                               

                              If you use IMX or DVCPRO-HD, this may not apply to you. Nevertheless, there is no need to use MRQ when you have MPE enabled, because using MPE entails using MRQ. MBD is a separate issue.

                              • 12. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                                Steve Liles Level 1

                                Harm - sorry for confusing with my post although I have to say that is a fantastic explanation of

                                4:2:0 and now totally understand the MRQ and MDC check boxes. I mentioned them as I thought they were relevant to the original post and I think with your explanation it shows that while I was correct you have explained why it is actually correct so as usual, thanks again.

                                • 13. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                                  Crooked Path Films Level 1

                                  Okay, I guess things were getting confused.  I used both DVCPROHD and also DSLR footage.  I don't use AVC.  With the DSLR footage...I always convert to a 4:2:2 colorspace (10bit) AVI using Cineform Neoscene.  That's much better when applying color effects like Magic Bullet Looks.  There is a noticeable difference between the footage colored with the conversion to Cineform AVI to the footage colored in the native H264 4:2:0 8-bit colorspace that Canon DSLRs record in.

                                   

                                  But it looks like you answered the question...that regardless if I use 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 you don't need to turn on the Maximize Rendering since I use the AME accelerated graphics.  Am I right in this statement?

                                  • 14. Re: Upgraded to CS5, slow to export!
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    Correct, because CUDA\MPE uses the linear color space anyway.