25 Replies Latest reply on Aug 20, 2010 8:46 AM by RDA972

    CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D

    vagarob Level 1

      Hi Guys,

       

      Hope when you have some free time you could give your input, or anyone else

       

      CURRENT SITUATION

       

      Edit AVCHD footage shot using several Canon HF S11 camcorders for a reality video blog.

       

      Primary editing/rendering machine is a Sager Notebook NP9280 - i7-960 (desktop not mobile) with 8GB of DDR3 RAM and a NVIDIA GTX 280M, along with two 120GB OCZ SSD drives (raid 0) and a 500GB 7200 RPM drive (and backup drives).

       

      Using CS5 Premiere hack to get Mercury running on the GTX280 -- works great!

       

      WHY A LAPTOP?

       

      Before you ask, my projects take me around the world, and due to the nature of the constant need of updates, we cannot return home and edit it later like a traditional movie project.

       

      THE PROBLEM

       

      Due to more usage of Colorista/Magic Bullet Looks & Adobe After Effects this machine is rendering video for hours at a time. Sometimes I cannot use it all day.

       

      THE QUESTION

       

      Should I buy a second Sager Notebook i7-980X with 12GB of ram to render projects on, or should I go with a small render box from boxxtech (which can support 32GB+). I can Fedex a small computer vs a huge workstation tower.

       

      http://www.boxxtech.com/products/renderPRO/pro_overview.asp

       

      So, another laptop, or a dedicated rendering box? or if someone else has a more creative approach

       

      p.s. There is a new option on the Sager Notebook that lets you put in a Nvidia Quadro FX 3800, would that have a have huge performance boost?

       

       

      Thanks in Advance!!!

        • 1. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          First of all, I wonder if upgrading to the FX 3800 will be worth the money. At the current state of affairs there is no indication that MPE really profits from all the cores available. If anything, the newer Fermi cards like the GTX 470/480 have the better specs, but we may have to wait for MPE support to outgrow its infancy to really appreciate the benefits.

           

          Second, using Colorista/MBL and AE a lot, which is time consuming for rendering jobs, your best option is to use the render farm capabilities in AE. MPE will not help there, because AE uses OpenGl and PR does not have render farm capabilities.

           

          The Render Boxx looks like a very attractive and compact solution to your problem, freeing your Sager from the rendering it is doing now. Unfortunately I have no idea whether the Pro 8 will be much faster than the Pro 4 with OpenGL rendering from AE to sway you to one or the other. Essentially the Pro 4 is like the quad core i7-9xx, while the Pro 8 and 12 are dual processor systems with the Xeon 56xx CPU's.

          • 2. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
            vagarob Level 1

            Thanks Harm =)

             

            So many questions its hard to find which direction to go.

             

            Sager NP9285

             

            Intel® Core™ i7-980X Processor Extreme Edition ( 12MB L3 Cache, 3.33GHz, 6.4GT/sec QPI Six Core)

            Nvidia GeForce GTX 480M Graphics with 2GB GDDR5 Video Memory

            12GB Triple Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 3 X 4GB

            1 x 320GB 7200rpm HDD

             

            = $3,959.00

             

            VS

             

            RenderPro 4

             

            XEON X3470 2.93GHz, 8MB cache, 1333 MHz

            24GB DDR3-1333 REG ECC (6 - 4GB DIMMS)

            1 x Matrox G200eW Graphics

            1 x 320GB 7200rpm HDD

             

            = $4,397.00

             

            The hard drives were just selected for pricing reasons, I'd upgrade them to SSDs myself.

             

            Which direction would you go? I'm looking for fast render speed in both Adobe Media Encoder & After Effects.

             

            will the Xeon and Double the memory = half the render time?

             

            Because, the one + with another notebook is it also gives us another editing platform.

             

            I'm looking at spending a max of $5000

            • 3. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

              What is you output format, I assume H.264, is that correct?

              • 4. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                My personal preference would be to get a second Sager like you described. The 980X is much faster than the i7-940 equivalent in the Pro 4. It would also give you a much better video card to profit from MPE and added flexibility to use the two Sagers.

                 

                If you render out to MPEG2 quite a lot, it is definitely worth looking at the possibility of getting 24 GB instead of 12 GB. For other export formats, the amount of RAM does not have that much impact.

                • 5. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                  vagarob Level 1

                  H.236 is correct

                   

                  Thanks guys. I think, unless someone else has some input, that I agree.

                   

                  I thought maybe I was crazy to get another full laptop to render things on, but i'm starting to realize that render farms are more suited for 3d applications (and intense AE projects which I don't do).

                   

                  I can easily transfer files from one laptop to another and then just open the project and render it, which frees up the second one.

                   

                  Another benefit is, the renderpro does not get rid of adobe premiere preview rendering. So while that is rendering, the computer is basically useless. While with two sagers i could move over onto the second one and continue work on another file.

                   

                  that's what im thinking anyways.

                  • 6. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Just remember that the EULA does allow installation on two machines, it limits the use to one machine at a time. You can't have two machines using the software at the same time.

                    • 7. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Sorry to have missed this thread, but it now seems pretty well handled.

                       

                      Harm is correct about running PrPro on your two machines at the same time. However, one could run AE on one, and PrPro on the other.

                       

                      One thing that I do NOT know about is AME. That was once a full, integral part of PrPro, but is now a stand-alone, and is also part of the bundle with Flash too. The question would be: does Adobe consider it still part of PrPro, or do they now consider it separate? Might have to get full clarification from Customer Support. My guess would be that they consider it part of PrPro, which would mean that with one license, you could NOT run AME and PrPro at the same time on two machines. However, I would definitely check, because maybe it is considered a separate program, and the licensing would allow one to run AME on computer A, while editing with PrPRo on computer B. Interesting question. Maybe Todd, Jeremy, Chad, or Dennis can give you the interpretation of the EULA on these two "programs?"

                       

                      Good luck and travel safely,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                        That's an interesting question.

                         

                        I know that the After Effects render engine can be installed and run on any number of computers so that you can do network rendering. The question is whether the license considers AME like the render engine.

                         

                        I'll ask.

                        • 9. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Todd,

                           

                          Please do. Until CS4, the question was moot. Now, with AME being a stand-alone, the potential use of it on one machine, while the licensed user is editing with PrPro on the other machine will come up. I guess one could try it, and wait for the Adobe Police to come knocking , but I think that most users are like me - they want to abide strictly with the EULA.

                           

                          Appreciate your efforts,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                            RDA972 Level 3

                            "However, one could run AE on one, and PrPro on the other."

                             

                            Are you talking about the suite or applications purchased separately?

                            If the former, are you sure about that?

                            Inquiring minds want to know?

                            • 11. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              I believe that now every one of my individual Adobe licenses is "inside" of suite of some sort. It is my understanding, and I hope that Todd will correct me, if wrong, that I can still run individual programs on either machine. What I cannot do is have both installs of PrPro running on both at the same time. I often have PrPro running on one, and PS, or AI, or even En, running on the other. Both computers are on-line, and I have never received any messages from Adobe. Hope that I have not been breaking the EULA, but my understanding is that it is still program-specific. Can you comment Todd?

                               

                              Maybe I've been a very bad boy, and I certainly hope not.

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                RDA972 Level 3

                                Bill, I don't think you can run PPro CS5 on one machine and AE CS5 on another at the same time if those two applications are part of the same suite.

                                In other words, if I am right, you've been a VERY bad boy all along.

                                Now, the jury is still out as to what crual punishment you deserve.

                                • 13. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Usually, Jeff just banishes me to The Lounge, where I have to sit in the corner, behind the old, dusty plastic plant. However, that plant has been removed, so not sure. Besides, this will probably be an issue of Todd doling out the punishment...

                                   

                                  Waiting on Todd's responses,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                    RDA972 Level 3
                                    function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                     

                                     

                                    Waiting on Todd's responses,

                                     

                                     

                                    I am breathless with anticipation.

                                    • 15. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                      vagarob Level 1

                                      You guys hijacked my thread!!

                                       

                                       

                                      I fondly recall pirating Adobe software when I was a teenager, back when it was difficult work (irc chat rooms ftp servers, none of this bittorrent crap). After years of self-teaching I finally started to get jobs and had enough money to actually by the Adobe suite. That was a proud moment.

                                       

                                      Course, this is like saying I robbed a bank to start a small business. Was it right? who knows, half the bankers and taxmen are cheats themselves -- but thats another discussion.

                                       

                                      What I do know is, I going to be running Adobe Premiere on one computer, and AME on another.

                                       

                                      And, I'm not going to lose any sleep over police raids because Adobe is not Apple =)

                                      • 16. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                        > And, I'm not going to lose any sleep over police raids. Because Adobe is not Apple =)

                                         

                                         

                                        I personally vow to not kick in your door.

                                         

                                        I just talked to someone in our legal department, and he said that the intent of the end-use license agreement is that you are not running two instances of "the software" simultaneously with the same activation (serial number). The thing that is considered to be "the software" is the suite as a whole. So, running AME on one computer while running Premiere Pro on another is technically a violation of the license agreement, if they're license under the single-user retail license.

                                         

                                        Note that the After Effects render engine is an explicit exception to this, and you can run as many copies of the render engine on as many computers as you want, as long as there's a licensed copy of After Effects on the network.

                                        • 17. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Todd,

                                           

                                          Interesting and enlightening. I greatly appreciate your help.

                                           

                                          In my case, I have a second, stand-alone license for PS, so I'll just make sure that my installation and Activation of one copy of PS is on that separate license. Guess I am out of luck with AE, Illustrator, PrPro and Encore though. Now, at least I know. I viewed the entities as separate programs, but I can see Adobe's point here.

                                           

                                          Thanks,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                            FWIW, I just lodged the internal version of a feature request to consider AME like the render engine so that it can be batch rendering while other programs run on a different computer. No promises, but I'll champion the idea here.

                                            • 19. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                                              Bill,

                                               

                                              IMHO it is pretty simple. The software, whether that is a single product or a whole suite, is licenced to you with a single serial number. You can only use one instance of anything under that serial number at a single moment. Anything more is either a breach of the EULA or requires a separate serial number. The AE render machine is not included here, since there are separate provisions for that.

                                              • 20. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Well, actually in my CS2 Creative Suite Premium, I have 3 different S/N's for five products.

                                                 

                                                It also seems that with CS2 Production Studio, AE has a unique S/N, but I'll have to dig up the media to verify that, as my memory is so faulty.

                                                 

                                                If Todd is successful, and can free up the legalities for AME, that will be helpful for others.

                                                 

                                                Now, I need to check exactly which licenses I have and for which products, that were stand-alones, and not used in any upgrade path. I might be Deactivating, uninstalling and reinstalling, to spread my licenses. This was not the way I interpretation, but I can see where you, and Adobe Legal, are coming from. Guess I'd better get that EULA out and read ALL of the 1 pt. type, and not just gloss over things, to get to the main topics.

                                                 

                                                Well, here is a open apology to Adobe. Probably did not do it THAT much, but I did breach the EULA.

                                                 

                                                Harm, I guess that means that you win the all-expenses paid trip to the Official Adobe Cafeteria for the Friday Mane Lobster lunch. They would never let an "outlaw" attend. Besides, I'd probably waste the "5 minutes of fame" asking to talk to the lawyers...

                                                 

                                                I'll ship the wine for your lunch, as I doubt I could not get into the compound.

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                                  vagarob Level 1

                                                  IF anything you guys should be on an Adobe payroll considering you answer so many peoples questions.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  or at least a nice wine and fruit basket

                                                  • 22. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                    IF anything you guys should be on an Adobe payroll considering you answer so many peoples questions.

                                                    Hey, maybe that is why they let me skate, when I was on my "crime spree?"

                                                     

                                                    Though we did veer OT a bit, I think that some of us learned something new - I know that I certainly did, and I've been using Adobe PS from the day that it hit the PC.

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                                      RDA972 Level 3

                                                      Well Bill, you've been found guilty of High Treason and you will be hanged, drawn and quartered, not just banished to a corner of the lounge. 

                                                      • 24. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                        You were correct in your call on the EULA. I was wrong (hate when that happens). Maybe I can throw myself on the mercy of the Adobe courts? First, I'll compliment the judge on his nice powdered wig?

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                         

                                                        PS - if I go missing, you all know that my "quarters" have been scattered to the four points of the compass!

                                                        • 25. Re: CS5 - Mobile Rendering - Harm? Bill? Anyone :D
                                                          RDA972 Level 3

                                                          Hey, lucky you. Your sentence has just been commuted to beheading.