24 Replies Latest reply on Aug 20, 2010 11:02 PM by Jim_Simon

    Dip to Black - start at 50%

    Crooked Path Films Level 1

      I always start my fade ins at 50% and end with 100%.  Meaning it gradually transitions from black to the clip throughout the entirety of the transition selection.  By default, Premiere sets the fade in at 0% and ends at 100%, hereby making it black for the first half of the clip then transitions into the clip.

       

      The problem is that even though I start the transition at 50%, the clip still remains at total black until halfway through the transition, hereby ignoring my controls.  In fact, if I set it to start at 50% and end at 50%...it still plays the default transition.

       

      Is this a glitch I need to live with?  Basically I'm having to double my transition sizes to compensate, which is silly.  Any advice?

        • 1. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
          shooternz Level 6

          Are you using the "DIp to Black " Transition or are you creating it using

          key frames?

           

          Why do you start at 50% and expect it to be black?    Transitions are linear (generally) and in the case of a fade, 0 -100% would represent opacity as 100% opaque to 0% Transparent (or vice versa)

           

          BTW: Do you have enough handle frames on the clips to cover the transition?

          • 2. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
            Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            I do not experiences this in CS5.

            My fade in made by a cross dissolve or dip to black behaves as designed.

            Obviously something is not working right.

            As a work around you can make a preset with Opacity, anchored to in Point.

            Or does keyframing the Opacity also starts to show halfway.

            • 3. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
              Crooked Path Films Level 1

              Shooternz,

               

              I'm using the "DIP TO BLACK" as I stated in my above message.  I'm not keyframing with opacity or anything...I'm using DIP TO BLACK.  If you select a transition like dip to black or dissolve in the timeline, you'll see in the effect controls panel that you can tell it at what percentage you want the transition to "start" and "end."

               

              Typically I start it at 50%...meaning the transition starts at 50% then continues through to the completed faded in clip represented at the "end" position of 100.  I have been doing this since I started with Premiere over 5 years ago.  Trust me, there's a glitch here.  Play with the transition options in the effect controls and you'll see what I mean.

              • 4. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                Crooked Path Films Level 1

                Ann, are you able to adjust the transition options in the Effect Control panel?  Mainly the Start and End percentages?

                • 5. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Richard,

                   

                  Sorry to be so dense here, but I cannot get my head around starting at 50%. All I can envision is a butt-cut (jump cut in my mind), where you go from 100% for Clip A to 50% and then start at 50% fading up to 100% for Clip B.

                   

                  I cannot help you with this being a Bug in CS5, but will have to create this Dip-to-Gray Transition, to see for myself, what you want to do.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                    Crooked Path Films Level 1

                    No worries Bill...sorry this is hard to explain...haha.

                     

                    Basically at the very start of the timeline, I want to fade in.  So, I apply a DIP TO BLACK at the very first clip.  Below is the range of the transition, from 1 to 100.

                     

                    1---------25---------50---------75---------100

                     

                     

                    The 1 is the start of the transition.  In dip to black, the transition is completely black from 1-50.  Then, from 50 to 100, it fades from total black to the clip.

                     

                    What I am trying to do is set the start of the transition at 50, so that the entire length of the transition is a gradual fade from black to the clip, and not just the last half of the transition, like this:

                     

                    50--------------------75---------------------100

                     

                    The 50 will be total black....and will gradually fade into the clip until 100 is reached and then there will be no black and only the clip.

                     

                    You can adjust the start and end percentage in the Effects Controls panel when the transition is highlighted in the timeline.

                     

                    So the problem in CS5...is no matter what I switch these numbers to, the transitions stays at 1--100.

                     

                    Does this make sense?

                    • 7. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                      shooternz Level 6

                      Richard

                       

                      I can see what you are experiencing.

                       

                      Seems that the Dip to Black (no matter whether its overlapped as a transition or single sided ) ...  interprets 50% as Black.

                       

                      I think thats  definitely a "glitch or a bug"

                       

                      If you create the same effect using Opacity above a BlackVideo layer  50% gives you waht you expect ...as does 0% and 100%

                      • 8. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                        Crooked Path Films Level 1

                        Thank Shootrnz.  I think either your workaround or using "cross dissolve" over a black track is all I can too right now.  The trouble is if you have multiple tracks fading in...then you'll have to export out that part of the timeline and apply the transition to the exported clip so that all tracks don't combine together for a portion of the transition.

                        • 9. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                          shooternz Level 6

                          If you want dip to black.. you need to do them single side at the head or tail of a clip.  ie...not overlapped.

                           

                          I always create the effect with opacity keyframes and have never used DIP to B or W.

                           

                          BTW ...Opacity brings its own set of issues ( but dont get me started on that again though)

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                            Richard,

                             

                            Let me guess: you're using hardware MPE/GPU acceleration? Try flipping over to software mode, and see if the effect works as you'd expect. I can replicate this issue here with my GTX-480 enabled for MPE; if I set to Software Rendering, 50% is black and it ramps smoothly to the end of the transition.

                             

                            Want to see something even more weird? Drag your transition out to be several seconds long, and then set the Start value as 99.9; scrub through the transition and watch the magic

                             

                            Sadly, it's things like this that make hardware MPE not ready for primetime; opacity, transparency, and alpha channels get totally jacked up, forcing me to switch to Software mode for export.

                             

                            EDIT: Heh, it gets even more strange. Set both the Start and End to either 0% or 100% (which would ordinarily dictate no transition), and watch as the video stills dips to black and back up! Methinks this is a bug...

                            • 12. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                              jeremy d. Level 3

                              Why are you wrestling with the Dip to Black at the beginning of the timeline, when a cross dissolve would do what you seem to be describing? If you want a fade-in, from 0-100, put a cross dissolve at the head of the first clip.

                               

                              Maybe I don't understand, but it seems to me that there's a lot of extra work going on here, based on what you wrote here:

                               

                              Basically at the very start of the timeline, I want to fade in.  So, I apply a DIP TO BLACK at the very first clip.  Below is the range of the transition, from 1 to 100.

                               

                              1---------25---------50---------75---------100

                               

                               

                              The 1 is the start of the transition.  In dip to black, the transition is completely black from 1-50.  Then, from 50 to 100, it fades from total black to the clip.

                               

                              What I am trying to do is set the start of the transition at 50, so that the entire length of the transition is a gradual fade from black to the clip, and not just the last half of the transition, like this:

                               

                              50--------------------75---------------------100

                               

                              The 50 will be total black....and will gradually fade into the clip until 100 is reached and then there will be no black and only the clip.

                               

                              You can adjust the start and end percentage in the Effects Controls panel when the transition is highlighted in the timeline.

                               

                              So the problem in CS5...is no matter what I switch these numbers to, the transitions stays at 1--100.

                              • 13. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                shooternz Level 6

                                You maybe correct Jeremy...but what the OP is pointing out,  is still a "glitch" in the functioning of "Dip to Black"..

                                 

                                I can confirm it and C.B confirms it at another level.

                                • 14. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                  Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  It not just a glitch in CS5 its also present in CS4.

                                  I have noticed this quite some time ago, but always thought it was a glitch with the Cineform avi's, so never bothered to look any further. Switched to cross dissolve.

                                  It does not matter which format you use or wether MPE is on or off.

                                  Notice the preview is correct.

                                   

                                  dip to black.png

                                  • 15. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                    Ann,

                                     

                                    What you're witnessing is not the glitch; that's actually correct in how Dip to Black should work. The Start and End values are not degrees/percentages of opacity, but are rather the percent of "completeness" of the transition. Since Dip to Black goes from 0% opacity to 100% opacity back to 0% opacity (relative to black, not the outgoing or incoming video), 50% in the transition completion SHOULD be 100% black. Here's a graphic representation (I didn't have time to paint it or build it to scale):

                                     

                                    dip-to-black.png

                                     

                                    The white represents 0% opacity of the black of the transition, where the black represents 100% opacity. Think of the transition as a black solid that has the duration of the transition. By default, the transition starts with 0% opacity of that black solid, ramps up to 100% opacity halfway through, and then ramps back down to 0%. That's why, typically, if you start the transition at 50% (as the OP is doing) you are effectively creating a fade from black. By it's nature, Dip to Black (or White) is a double-sided transition, and therefore requires this reassignment of the Start or End value to achieve the effect.

                                     

                                    Personally, I would never use Dip to Black for this purpose, even if it worked correctly with hardware MPE, as it's just too fiddly. However, regardless of the practicality of the technique, it does reveal an issue with hardware MPE.

                                     

                                    To the OP: as Craig (shooternz) suggests, the following creates a fade of multiple layers without altering each individual layers transparency (which is a common issue, since a lot of people just throw dissolves on each layer to fade in/out):

                                     

                                    fade-in.png

                                    • 16. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                      Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Aha, thanks for the explanation.

                                      • 17. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                        No problem; glad it helped. What this all points to is that Premiere really needs a single-sided variant of Dip to Black that performs a linear opacity change like Cross Dissolve; specifically, this would be Fade.

                                         

                                        While we're on the topic, are able to reproduce the issue with MPE enabled? With MPE off, the 50%-100% transition should function as a fade in.

                                        • 18. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                          jeremy d. Level 3

                                          shooternz wrote:

                                           

                                          You maybe correct Jeremy...but what the OP is pointing out,  is still a "glitch" in the functioning of "Dip to Black"..

                                           

                                          I can confirm it and C.B confirms it at another level.

                                           

                                          I am not questioning the glitch at all, I'm just trying to understand  why you'd go through the trouble of tweaking one transition in the first  place, just to duplicate what another transition already does.

                                           

                                           

                                          To the OP: as Craig (shooternz) suggests, the following creates a fade of multiple layers without altering each individual layers transparency (which is a common issue, since a lot of people just throw dissolves on each layer to fade in/out):

                                           

                                          Sure, but you can fade those same layers all at once using that black video and a dissolve, too. This is just about workflow, but I have an interest in other user's workflows.

                                           

                                          Has anyone logged a bug yet?

                                          • 19. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                            Crooked Path Films Level 1

                                            Great question.  Because it doesn't duplicate what the other transition does as you mistakenly claim.  You can't use the dissolve transition on multiple tracks of video...as you will be able to see all tracks simoultaneously as the transition progresses.  Also, I believe you need to add black video to avoid a fade from grey in most cases, since (at least in my projects) empty holes in the timelines render out as a very dark grey...not black.  Simply adding dip to black does all this in one simple maneuver...well, two if you count altering the start and end (which is useless as we are finding out).  I use my method because that's what I like to use, that's all.

                                             

                                            I think the method that Colin offers in his above diagram is the best option in this case.  Thanks to everyone for the help!  I have an easy workaround now!

                                            • 20. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                              Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                              Has anyone logged a bug yet?

                                               

                                              I will file it as a bug, and see what happens. OK?

                                              • 21. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                                jeremy d. Level 3

                                                That's no mistake, Richard. We can continue this in the Lounge.

                                                 

                                                Thanks for discussing your workflow a little.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Because it doesn't duplicate what the other transition does as you mistakenly claim.

                                                • 22. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                                  Crooked Path Films Level 1

                                                  I prefer not to get into such discussions to be honest.  What works for you is the best option for you.  What works for me is the best for

                                                  me.  Thanks for your input though.

                                                  • 23. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                                    jeremy d. Level 3

                                                    Ok. One reason I'm asking is so I can test this the way other people use it.

                                                    Thanks. I'll go check out the bug.

                                                    • 24. Re: Dip to Black - start at 50%
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                      Premiere really needs a single-sided variant of Dip to Black that performs a linear opacity change like Cross Dissolve; specifically, this would be Fade.

                                                       

                                                      I'm confused.  How would Fade and Cross Dissolve be any different when used at the head of a clip?