9 Replies Latest reply on Aug 28, 2010 9:10 AM by DaveAvtekProd

    Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export

    DaveAvtekProd

      I'm seeing very thin lines flashing across the program monitor when playing a complex sequence with 7 video tracks. They draw at various angles and span the entire screen. There can be one or more showing at any time. They are colored and each line appears to be only one color, but different lines can be different colors. Some lines are solid, others are dashed. There is also a ghosty-white representation of one of my titles flashing around the screen for only a frame or two, then it flashes somewhere else.

       

      Sequences and Tracks:

      Base Sequence: AVCHD with disolves and color correction

      Next Sequence Layer: Base Sequence placed on tracks 1 and 2. Motion is applied to both tracks. LInearWipe and Opacity are applied to Track 2.

      (This creates an image in the center of the screen with a reflection.)

       

      Next Sequence Layer (1st track of the final 7): Animates Basic3D and Motion (position, scaling)

      2nd, 3rd and 4th of the seven are just like the1st. So there are 4 video screens flying around with reflections and perspective. Kind of like the iTunes album art widget - screen flies in, goes center stage, then flies back.

       

      Layers 5 to 7 are titles. They are also nested sequences having reflections and Basic3D, but their positions are not animated.

       

      My system:

      Phenom II x6 1055T

      8 Gb DDR3 1333

      3 Drives 7200 rpm (one program, one preview/conforming, one video)

      nVidia GeForce GTX 260 (3 fans attached)

      3 Case fans plus the side is open - running very cool

      MSI 890GXM-G65 Mobo

       

      My Project:

      Originated as a CS4 project, opened with CS5 and converted (did not import). Fixed all the title screwups, missing fonts, graphics, hooked up the off-line media etc etc. There are a couple of 1.5 hour nested AVCHD multi-camera sequences which look and play great. Then there are 2 of these monster sequences which are actually used as DVD menus and are about 44 seconds each. When I render these 7 layer menu sequences and play them back, these lines start flashing across the screen.

       

      Of course the GTX 260 has the GPU unlocked and that works great for the 1.5 hour programs. But if I attempt to render the 44 second monsters Premier stops responding and I have to EndTask it (all CPUs drop to idle while not responding). These monster sequences might test the power of the Quadro CX. So when I work with the menu sequences, I set Premiere to use software GPU and not MPE. Then I can render (2 hours render time to preview 44 seconds with six cores at near 100%). So it does render, slowly.

       

      I'm exporting an mpeg2 file now and will let you know if the lines show up in the final rendering. I can see the lines showing up on the MediaEncoder's small preview screen as it renders. Doesn't give me comfort.

       

      OK worst case scenario. The lines ARE in the final mpeg2 file. Makes the file unusable garbage...

       

      Is anyone else seeing flashing lines and titles?

       

      Here's a link to a still from the export to illustrate the artifacts.(face and name were blanked out by me)

      http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5051/premierecs5lineandtitle.jpg

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          You have truly built a sequence designed to destroy your computer

           

          I've had some unpredictable issues when moving older projects forward to CS5, particularly when they are complex and particularly when they use MPEG-based assets like your AVCHD clips. I think that there is some "chaff" left in the project file during conversion, causing instability and occasionally image corruption. My suggestion was going to be to attempt render and export without the GPU, but you've already done that so I think we can rule that out.

           

          Try copying your sequence's content--not the sequence itself--and then create a new CS5 project. Create a new sequence in that project that matches your footage and paste the edit into it. Verify that everything is pasted correctly (in earlier versions of Premiere there were issues with certain elements making the inter-project journey, but this seems to be better in CS5), and also check that all of your effects are both online and are functioning correctly. I've found that some effects--even basic ones--changed when moving a project forward. Check to see if you have the image corruption now, in whatever method you can reliably reproduced it (if at all).

           

          If that doesn't work, you might have to try isolating individual tracks, to determine if the issue is relative to a particular piece of media, effect, or animation. A good test would be to compare your rendered/exported file with your sequence edit, and check to see what is happening in the various clips and tracks at the points in time in which you see the corruption (though you didn't specify if you see the corruption ALL the time, or just some of the time).

           

          Post back with your findings, and we'll take it from there...

          • 2. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
            DaveAvtekProd Level 1

            Thanks Colin.

             

            Great suggestion. I didn't know you could copy and paste like that - never tried before between projects. So I copied the monster sequence assets and pasted them into a new AVCHD 1080i (1920x1080) project sequence. Looks like everything found it's way over in tact - all the effects look good. Everything is online. I rendered a section and it plays smoothly. Unfortunately, there was one line which jetted across in the section I rendered. I have to get to work now, but I'll get into the business of disabling tracks - trying to isolate the problem this evening. I'll update you later. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

            • 3. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              David,

               

              Sounds like we're making progress...

              Unfortunately, there was one line which jetted across in the section I rendered.

               

              Navigate to the point in the sequence where you see the line artifact, and take a look at all of your clips, effects, and how they are animated at that point. This will help isolate what the cause of the artifacting may be. I don't think that these are random, but are instead generated by some strange brew where a couple elements don't give with one another. I'd speculate that it has something to do with AVCHD footage, personally, but there may be a different culprit; you certainly have enough elements to analyze

              • 4. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                LInearWipe and Opacity

                 

                I've noticed some odd behavior with this combination in CS4.  Perhaps it carried over to CS5.

                • 5. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
                  DaveAvtekProd Level 1

                  The 4 video tracks can be eliminated. I turned off the title tracks, leaving the 4 video tracks and the lines disappeared. Any one of the 3 title tracks will cause a single line to appear. So just looking at a single title track, I can make a single line appear. The line flashes at the same place on the screen and stays the same color. So the complexity needed to reproduce the problem has dropped tremendously.

                   

                  Here is a description of the offending sequence...

                   

                  One title with the VerticalFlip applied. Then move the title down toward the bottom of the screen. That's IT!

                   

                  I created a brand new CS5 project (AVCHD 1080i square pixels). Created one title and placed it on track 1. Applied the flip. Moved the title down. Rendered and watched the line. If I do not render (red bar - deleted files in preview cache to make sure), the line shows intermittently. But when rendered, it shows all the time.

                   

                  Here is the screenshot.

                  http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8724/verticalflipglitch.jpg

                   

                  Just to be certain, I removed the "GeFore GTX 260" string I had added to the cuda_supported_cards.txt file and ran gpusniffer.exe. It reported "CUDA Device # 0 not choosen because it did not match the named list of cards". So I'm certain that my system is running in the adobe supported mode.

                   

                  VerticalFlip is basic functionality for titles. Can anyone reproduce this?

                   

                  Note: I'm running windows 7 ultimate x64 (forgot to mention that above)

                   

                  Thanks

                  • 6. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    Dave,

                     

                    You mean a little somethin' like this:

                     

                    line-bug.png

                     

                    Yep, I can replicate it; that's with Software rendering, by the way. Doesn't matter what the sequence preset is, I can recreate this in every case (Vertical Flip on title with either Position or Anchor Point change).

                     

                    I would certainly call this a bug, and recommend that it be filed (Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form), but I did find a relatively simple workaround. Simply apply a Crop effect before your Vertical Flip in the effects stack, and chop a few pixels off the top and bottom (to be safe). Insofar as I've been able to test and ascertain, this prevents the line from appearing, both in preview and in exports.

                     

                    Interestingly, I found that I could only see the line in the rendered previews if the display was set to First Field or Both Fields; toggling to Second Field prevented the line from appearing. Of course, this is only for Program Monitor playback, and the line still makes its way into exported files.

                    • 7. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
                      DaveAvtekProd Level 1

                      It's good to know that I'm not doing something strange and that my system isn't injecting artifacts. I will file a bug report. Thanks for the workaround!! I will try it and let you know if my monster sequence comes back to life and post the results. You've been a big help with this. Now it's Adobe's turn to help I suppose.

                      • 8. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        Glad that will at least help you get the goods out the door. Based on no scientific evidence whatsoever, my guess would be that this is due to the newish Mercury Playback Engine, which is always in effect regardless of hardware assistance (e.g. GPU). I actually think I had encountered this once before since starting to use CS5, under similar circumstances, and I've also had a few other unexplainable anomalies that I tend to attribute to MPE, as they never appeared in CS4. Obviously, the more things like this we can expose and send to Adobe, the better the product is likely to become. Of course, that doesn't really soothe the spirit when you just have to get something done now

                         

                        Anyway, good luck with the export...

                        • 9. Re: Lines and title flashing across the program monitor and in final export
                          DaveAvtekProd Level 1

                          The crop workaround was successful for removing the lines - worked great. There was the issue of the ghost text which you can see in the screenshot link provided above. This was not removed by crop. Crop removed the lines, but not the ghost. Thankfully, the 4 point garbage mask did work on the ghost and I was able to eliminate it. I had to apply the garbage mask on the sequence where Basic3D was applied not its parent sequence where VerticalFlip was used. The most important thing is that I've successfully migrated this CS4 project to CS5 and can now take advantage of 64bit processing (more RAM) to tame the beast. I'm using this sequence as a menu for a series of DVDs so my time expended will pay me back again and again.

                           

                          The asset generating the ghost was built like this...

                          In the titler: Text was placed over a logo (.tiff file for logo and it was scaled and moved)

                          Base Sequence: Title was brought to two, stacked tracks. VerticalFlip, and LinearWipe were applied to one which was then moved to look like a reflection of the other

                          Next Sequence: Layed the Base Sequence down. Applied Basic 3D and moved it's XY position. (This is where I applied the GarbageMask to remove the ghost)

                           

                          I tried separating the logo from the text thinking that the logo feature of the titler might be the problem. So I used a separate video track and pulled in the .tiff file directly. It didn't eliminate the ghost. Applying the GarbageMask to the base sequence also didn't help. It was only after Basic3D was applied that the ghost would appear. And since I have Basic3D applied to other reflected text-only layers which do not exhibit the ghost artifact, the bug has something to do with the text/graphic combination with VerticalFlip and Basic3D.

                           

                          To top it all off, I can no longer recreate the problem. I've turned off the garbage mask and it's not showing up. While I was testing, the ghost was easy to recreate, but now I can't do it. So I don't appear to be able to drill down deeper. Perhaps it will come back at some point and I can test it further and update this thread.