18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 27, 2010 9:53 AM by the_wine_snob

    PE + PSE integration - Film Strip

    Dandi 8 Level 1

      Hey,

      I wanted to do some editing of my clip in Photoshop and I found some people on the net talking about exporting to filmstrip and opening up in PSE.

       

      The problem is, they said about using File->Export which in my PE8 is greyed out.

       

      How do I export to .flm or otherwise open my Premiere clips in Photoshop Elements? Please don't tell me this feature has been taken out? It can't be, otherwise bundling PE with PSE doesn't make much sense o.O

        • 1. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Really? The bundle doesn't otherwise make sense? Hmm. Actually, there are a great number of ways the two programs (three, if you count the Organizer) work together.

           

          The feature your looking for is still there. However, in version 8 all of the output functions are now under Share/Personal Computer.

           

          Select AVI and check the Advanced settings or Still Picture and check the Advanced settings.

          • 2. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
            Dandi 8 Level 1

            Well, maybe it doesn't *entirely* not make sense... But still, this is in my opinion THE feature to justify bundling But still... I would like to learn some more about how these two programs work together. Could you link me to some articles? I haven't found much by myself for some reason...

             

            As for the problem itself, I've checked the Share/PC settings through and through and couldn't find a way to export as .flm. Why would it even be in the .avi section?

            • 3. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
              Dandi 8 Level 1

              ...Huh...?

              • 4. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Steve Grisetti has a great book on the "bundle" of PSE and PrE, through Amazon, or Muvipix. I have the Version 7 edition, and don't know if Steve has done one for PrE/PSE 8, as changes have been made. Steve makes note of one of those major changes - the moving of most of the old File>Export functions to the Share tab.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                  Dandi 8 Level 1

                  Is the Muvipix version digital?

                  Also: How do I actually export to filmstrip format?

                  Thanks

                  • 6. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    This image is from PrE 4.0, and all such functions have now been moved to the Share tab, but the settings and dialog screens will be exactly the same, or at least very similar.

                     

                    Good luck, and hope that this helps.

                     

                    Hunt

                    PrE_Export_Filmstrip.jpg

                    • 7. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                      Dandi 8 Level 1

                      I've looked pretty much everywhere and couldn't find it. Here's how it looks like in PrE 8.0:

                      nofilmstrip.png

                       

                      As you can see, I wasn't able to find filmstrip anywhere. Why?

                      • 8. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Things have moved about, and changed with PrE 8.

                         

                        Maybe look in the Help Files (View as PDF) and choose Chapter 15. Look for this header:

                         

                        Export clips as a sequence of still images

                         

                        You should get some info there.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                          Dandi 8 Level 1

                          There is no mention of filmstrip in the online help.

                          Also, exporting clips as a sequence of images does exactly that - exports as separate still images, one file per frame.

                           

                          Please don't tell me they took it out

                           

                          EDIT:
                          Here's what I found:

                           

                          Here it lists Filmstrip as supported for import:

                          http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremiereElements/8.0/Win/Using/WS300DE01D-F057-4639-96D1-F99EE E163C24.html

                           

                          Here, in the supported for export list, it does not:

                          http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremiereElements/8.0/Win/Using/WSBD5B7B44-D473-43ad-BC9D-77F54 6DC27F0.html

                           

                           

                          It's kind of a d**k move from Adove to pull such a feature, which looks like they did. Please tell me I'm wrong? Maybe some of you can install ver. 8.0, find it and prove me wrong?

                          • 10. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                            Have you clicked on the Advanced button under Stills and AVIs as I recommended above?

                            • 11. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                              A.T. Romano Level 7

                              SG and Hunt

                               

                              Although you can import a Filmstrip format file (.flm) into Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1, you cannot export your Timeline as a Filmstrip (.flm) file. The new Share does not include that option. And, Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1 File Menu/Export/Movie is now exclusively for exporting titles.

                               

                              Premiere Elements 4.0 and 7.0 did include the option to export the Timeline to the Filmstrip (.flm) format) via

                              the auxillary File Menu/Export/Movie.

                              Export Movie Dialog

                              Settings

                              Export Movie Settings

                              File Type: Filmstrip

                              I found it interesting that this user was directed to look for a Filmstrip (.flm) export under the Share/Personal Computer/AVI in Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1 since, even in Premiere Elements 4.0 and 7.0, it was never under Microsoft AVI. In Premiere Elements 4.0 and 7.0, the Filmstrip (.flm) export was listed along with (not under) the File Type choices of Microsoft AVI, Microsoft DV AVI, QuickTime, and the rest.

                               

                              A Filmstrip (.flm) export (versions 4.0 and 7.0) and the Share/Personal Computer/Image using the Export Sequence option (version 8.0/8.0.1) share that they both are involved at the frame level. But the Export Sequence exports as jpeg, tiff, or targa, not .flm, and is problematic trying to work it into a subsitute for .flm type of export.

                               

                              I have assumed that the user has some special reason for needing to edit video at the frame level in Photoshop or Photoshop Elements since the usual scenario is Photoshop Elements = Photo Editor and Premiere Elements = Video Editor with other integration perks for editing Premiere Elements stills in Photoshop Elements.. When using Photoshop Elements 6.0 or 7.0 to edit the .flm, I found that it was an extremely slow process for Photoshop Elements to read the format and to open the file and was very resource demanding.

                               

                              But, this indivdual video frame editing in Photoshop Elements was something that I had not come across before, and I found it very interesting although not useful for my purposes.

                               

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                                A.T. Romano Level 7

                                Dandi8

                                 

                                You say that you want to do some editing of one of your video clips in Photoshop Elements via the Filmstrip (.flm) format file route.

                                 

                                Do you really want to edit the video down to the single frame level as implied in the approach that you are asking about?

                                 

                                Could you elaborate on what you expect to gain doing what you suggest versus

                                a. Setting up Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1 to display frames on the Timeline instead of the typically seen Drop Frame Timecode

                                Edit Menu

                                Project Settings

                                General

                                Display Format = Frames

                                instead of

                                30 fps Drop-Frame Timecode or 30 fps Non Drop-Frame Timecode (if NTSC)?

                                 

                                b. and doing your video (frame) editing within a known video editor Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1?

                                 

                                ATR

                                • 13. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  ATR,

                                   

                                  As always, thank you for the update on the versions. That is appreciated.

                                   

                                  this individuall video frame editing in Photoshop Elements was something that I had not come across before, and I found it very interesting although not useful for my purposes.

                                  My assumption was that the OP wanted to do Rotoscoping, on a frame-level file, with each frame as an individual image. While tedious, Rotoscoping can be used for some interesting effects, and to correct defects.

                                   

                                  I use it in AfterEffects and Photoshop, though fortunately not THAT often - like I said - tedious as heck, 'cause you have to do it so many times, and in many cases, Actions, or Scripting will be of little to no use.

                                   

                                  Way back in history, Rotoscoping was done on a frame-by-frame basis with bleaches and dyes and a "1-hair brush." Even before my days in film (yeah, most of you did not think that film pre-dated Hunt ), there was an order of nuns (FR, IIRC), who specialized in doing bleaching and dying on the film - one frame at a time! Some of their work was wonderous. I only wish that I could recall some of the titles that they worked on, as some might be on YouTube. Much of what they did was replaced by painted mattes, and until computers, those were used. Many of those were so very realistic, that audiences assumed that the filming had taken place on location and not on a studio set. Even today, similar is done, but with computer-generated scenes. Much of LOR was done this way, along with many other computer "tricks."

                                   

                                  Thank you for the information on the Export/Share "options," or lack of options here.

                                   

                                  Now for the OP, I wonder if a TGA Sequence would work for the end use?

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Here is a TUTORIAL on Rotoscoping, but makes reference to PrPro, and NOT to PrE.

                                     

                                    Here is a TUTORIAL on "light-sabers," but again, no PrE.

                                     

                                    Here is a TUTORIAL on using AfterEffects and PS.

                                     

                                    Good luck to the OP on this,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                                      A.T. Romano Level 7

                                      Hunt

                                       

                                      This user does indeed want to use rotoscoping, but does not want to go into the higher price software to do so.

                                       

                                      In the absence of the .flm export in Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1, mention has been made of trying to do the rotoscoping using freeze frames  genenerated from a Share/Personal Computer/Image preset (for jpeg, tiff, or targa) with the "Export As Sequence" selected. From what you have said it would appear working with the .flm file is tedious in itself. So, would I be correct in my assumption that trying to work out the logistics of rotoscoping with freeze frames would not be justified? I have suggested that the user go out and purchase an inexpensive copy of Premiere Elements 7.0 which will allow taking the Timeline to .flm instead of the latter.

                                       

                                      Alternatively, I would encourage setting the Premiere Elements 8.0/8.0.1 Timeline to a frame display rather than a drop-frame Timecode one and try to do single frames edits within Premiere Elements. Does that seem feasible?

                                       

                                      I have a lot of reading to do on this, but my questions would go to how the source media format lends itself to conversion to .flm for rotoscoping. And, the matter of computer resources for this type of a project would appear to be at the top of the concern list.

                                       

                                      ATR

                                      • 16. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Personally, I like the PrE 7, but there will be one consideration - if editing has been done in PrE 8, and THAT is what needs to go to PSE for Rotoscoping, then the copy of PrE 7 will most likely not be able to Open the PrE 8 Project. OTOH, one could Export from PrE 8, using a conventional AV format, or maybe something like the Lagarith Lossless CODEC, and then Export/Share that file to FLM. One can limit the Export/Share with the WAB, if only part is required for Rotoscoping.

                                         

                                        Another would be to use Image Sequence and choose either TIFF, or TGA, if possible. I cannot comment on the availability of Image Sequence in PrE 8. My choice, if available would be TIFF, though TGA was the popular choice with the Mac crowd. I just like TIFF better, but that's probably because I have always been a PC-guy.

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                                          A.T. Romano Level 7

                                          Hunt

                                           

                                          I will think about this is the light of day.

                                           

                                          My suggestion was to export the Premiere Elements 7.0 Timeline to a Filmstrip (.flm) for video frame editing in Photoshop Elements. No mixing.

                                           

                                          But, where have I gone wrong?. The issue about prior editing in another version is a non issue here because we are NOT talking about a project.prel, we are talking about an exported file with a file extension of .flm.

                                           

                                          My envisioned scenario goes

                                          1. Premiere Elements 7.0, export Timeline to Filmstrip (.flm) via File Menu/Export/Movie and setting for File Type: Filmstrip. See my prior post.

                                          2. Photoshop Elements whatever, Full Editor, Open .flm, edit, save.

                                          3. Premiere Elements whatever, Get Media/Files & Folders to import the .flm after setting appropriate project preset, .....

                                           

                                          What am I missing in seeing a distinction between project.prel file and .flm export? It is a file type that is going back and forth, not the same project.prel?

                                           

                                          ATR

                                          • 18. Re: PE + PSE integration - Film Strip
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            ATR,

                                             

                                            I do not think that you are missing anything. I wrote:

                                            if editing has been done in PrE 8, and THAT is what needs to go to PSE for Rotoscoping, then the copy of PrE 7 will most likely not be able to Open the PrE 8 Project.

                                            Note the word "if." I just wanted to make sure that the OP did not anticipate the ability to Open the PrE 8 Project in PrE 7, and even trying to Open a PrE 7 Project in PrE 8, might not work 100%.

                                             

                                            I do think that using PrE 7 for this need is a great one. I will second that recommendation. I was just trying to cover "possibilities, and issues," that could crop up, so that the OP is not surprised in a negative way, later on.

                                             

                                            Good luck, and thank you for the rec. for PrE 7 for the FLM Export.

                                             

                                            Hunt