14 Replies Latest reply on Sep 3, 2010 1:07 PM by the_wine_snob

    Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare

    joshtownsend Level 2

      We had the world premiere of my first feature film this weekend. It went very well especially considering the controversial nature of the movie.

       

      Here's an article about it the local paper. 

       

      http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100829/ARTICLES/8291008/1002

       

       

      But scarier than any horror film was actual process of finishing a huge project in CS5. As you guys know I have always been a big supporter of Premiere and After Effects. I've been using them professionally since CS3.

       

      The huge problem was CS5 taking around 30 seconds to become active whenever I switched over to any program. When I opened MB Looks, switched to After Effects, searched for audio in explorer/soundbooth or even just accidentally switched clicked on the OS toolbar or anywhere other than Premiere I had to wait. Since CS5 came out I've easily spent 20 hours of my life just waiting for Premiere to become active.

       

      I know this is a 'known problem' and I had hoped for a fix sooner than later. The movie was split up into 7 reels each one being between 10 and 15 minutes and each one had around 400 files in the project. Each reel also had a good amount amount of After Effects projects in it. Almost all the media was DVCPROHD 1080 from P2 cards and they do edit very smooth and quick. Always have.

       

      Three of the reels were done in CS4 then CS5 came out and I cut the other 4 reels using it. I talked to tech support and all that, they said it was a memory leak and they would have it fixed soon. I also saw other people on this board had the same problem. The Cs4 reels only took 5 seconds to load, and even though CS5 (both Premiere and After Effects) are better and faster. I would have been better off in the long run just editing every reel in CS4. That 30 second wait time became almost comically ridiculous.

       

      Even though the audio was mixed in Apple Logic at real studio using OMF files I made, I had to get all the dialog, foley, sound design, ambiant BG and music into Premiere. This meant I had to leave PRpro to find the audio, record some audio ect then through it back into the NLE to test it. The movie is a horror flick so there was alot of experminting and a lot of sounds.

       

      Anyway I wanted to post this to vent and also warn off anyone who might be thinking about cutting any type of feature film or documentary with CS5. Don't so it. Use Avid, use anything else. FINAL CUT PRO slipped big time lately and Adobe had a good chance taking there market share when it came to feature editing. ESPECIALLY with MPE tech. There's a ton of movies being shot with DLSR's and RED Camera's right now. Too bad they dropped the ball and never bothered to pick it up. CS5 works great for short films and wedding video's. But as soon as you load over 200 bits of media and have 500+ cuts it just chokes when ever you leave the program. And when you make a feature, your going to using plug-in, switching to AE (or hell even Soundbooth) and searching through explorer.

        • 1. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
          shooternz Level 6

          I sympathise.

           

          Today, for the first time , I have begun to experience this issue.

          My project is not large. Two x TVCs.

           

          The hangup issue was exhibited between Explorer and PPRO CS5.

           

          Clicking the Menu Bar in PPRO seemed to help get focus back  bu t I lost CTI control in the process.

          • 2. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            "...three of his fingers were severed and later reattached."

             

            Duuuude...that's just nasty.  My condolences.

            • 3. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
              joshtownsend Level 2

              The got sewed back on and I got my first feature out of it so it worked out in the end. It did hurt like hell though. Can't play guitar as good as I used to though....

               

              Hope your doing well Jim.

              • 4. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                wonderspark Level 1

                Wow.  I have a few parallels with you, as I'm nearly finished editing a feature film in Premiere Pro myself, but on CS3.  I'm also a huge fan of Adobe.  I bought CS5 a while back, but have not installed it yet, because I heard only bad things happen when you switch to CS5 mid-project.  Adding your voice to that rumor makes me glad to have waited, but also extremely sad, because I wonder how my next feature might go in CS5.

                 

                I noticed that most of the users on these forums seem to be using PCs, which is expected, since most users of computers use PCs.  I'm on a '09 Mac Pro 3.33GHz with 16GB of RAM and hardware RAID (stripe 0), which seems to have helped me avoid many of the pitfalls I've read, heard and even seen in person on other systems.  I chose this machine specifically to edit feature films, and went back and forth for a few months between a custom PC build or a Mac, and so far, I'm still mostly confident in my choice.  I'm jealous of the compatibility of PC equipment.  nVidia cards and other GPU realities, and Windows 7 seems to be brilliant so far.  I came from PCs myself, only going as far as XP due to the horror of Vista.  This Mac is my first, except for a PowerPC 9600/300 I had at work ages ago.

                 

                Anyway, the feature I'm working on is about 100 minutes in length so far, give or take ten minutes.  It was also shot on DVCProHD, 1080 24p, with P2 cards, and it's split into ten scenes on ten timelines.  I also have an 11th timeline with the ten scene timelines dropped into place to make the entire movie in one smooth timeline.  I like this setup, because when I make a change in the scene in its timeline, the 11th timeline shows that change, obviously.  I hoped that by breaking the movie into a sequence per scene, I could avoid problems that might arise with an overly complex sequence, and it seems to have held up well so far.  I also have many AfterEffects segments in the project, which I render out into their own file with the animation compressor.  I then import that, drop it in place on the timeline, and then export the entire timeline to a new P2 file, all in hopes of keeping the project as simple and smooth as possible.  The most complex thing that remains are the 16 audio tracks with all the actors' mic tracks and sound effects.  When it gets messy enough, I tend to export several tracks into a new audio file to use as a single track, provided that the sound is finished on that track.  (I don't like scrolling the timeline too far, so I won't add 99 audio tracks... hahaha)

                 

                I mention all this because I'm interested to hear if you implemented any similar workflow techniques to minimize taxing out your system.  If you did, it does not bode well for CS5, which I'll be sure to use the day this movie is finished.  I plan to do a complete deinstallation of all CS3 products, followed by a clean install of CS5.  I bought the full Production Premium version so I could accomplish this clean install.  I'm also planning to upgrade my RAID from the stock Apple 1TB drives to Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB drives to keep the data on the faster part of the drives, (not filling the drives too much.)  I'm also considering upgrading my Apple RAID card to something a little more robust, but honestly, I've had no problems with the card, so maybe not.

                 

                I can think of no greater frustration than to upgrade to the latest and greatest version of CS, only to find it not work as well (or at all) despite all the great new features.  I'd rather not have things (that I'm dying to use) like the rotobrush, content aware fill and so on, if the system can't handle a feature-length film project.  I still have the stock ATI Radeon HD 4870, so I can't take advantage of hardware acceleration with CUDA in the MPE.  I consider finding a decent nVidia card, but the ATI has worked so well for me in all other applications that I'm skeptical of the switch.  I keep hoping that Adobe will do something for the new offerings ATI comes out with.  So far, I like the idea of the 5870, but without CUDA or Fermi or whatever, it seems like my use of CS5 might have to just make do with software MPE only.  What I REALLY want at this point is Audition for Mac.  It's the biggest gripe I have about switching to Mac.  In the meantime, I just use my old Audidion 2 on the PC, and transfer the file via wifi to my Mac, but come on, what a pain!

                 

                Huge congratulations on your premiere, and wish me luck on my premiere in Louisiana on October 6th!  It's also a sort of horror movie... more paranormal really... about some college kids that try to find evidence of paranormal activity in an abanodoned school that was the site of a string of murders.  "They found what they were looking for."  (:

                • 5. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                  Thrill Media Level 2

                  Congrats on getting it done and sorry for the nightmare.  That must have been a huge effort!

                   

                  Funny, I actually covered the story for a national news outlet with my boss at the time.  Spent about 3 - 20hr days running all over Gainesville with a BetaCam in hand.  There must have been about 50 different organizations there with sat trucks.  It was crazy!

                  • 6. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                    eddiem100 Level 1

                    Yes, Josh,  This is a real problem.  I went through hell on this exact problem and if this got solved, Premiere Pro would be better than anything else out there right now.  Don't know if you saw my original thread

                    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/639220?tstart=0

                     

                    but every aspect is covered there including system tests and everything. It is a memory leak. Buying a ton of RAM like I did doesn't solve it at all (18 GB RAM).

                     

                    I had done the same thing and switched from CS4 to CS5 in the middle of several 30 minute TV productions and I regretted it and almost switched entirely over to AVID.   I'm able to make it through 30 minute programs right now but I have to a) keep my timeline layers to a minimum b) do not build up previews (use MPE) and c) take edited sections and output them to AVIs and bring it back in.    The disadvantage is you have to basically delete anything in your project you're not using as you go along so if you all of a sudden want to find that shot you were thinking of using, you have to go back and go through your originals and import it.  Really bad workflow.

                     

                    I too have a feature coming up and I am sorry to say if this isn't solved by that time, I will be forced to abandon Premiere entirely and I'll have to switch over all my production to AVID as the memory leak is so bad it becomes unuseable.  Otherwise it is great.

                    • 7. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                      eddiem100 Level 1

                      Yep, that is where the problem starts!

                      • 8. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Josh,

                         

                        Sorry for your anguish, and thanks for reporting. I'll toast the completion of your film, and hope that the premier goes well.

                         

                        I did not see a link to the trailer. Seems that in the very early days, you did a prelim. trailer, but I could not find that link. Any chance of us seeing the trailer?

                         

                        Good luck, and hope that distribution does not turn out like the ordeal with CS5. Let us all hope that the upcoming update does address all issues.

                         

                        Hunt

                         

                        PS - nice to see you back around the forum. You have been missed.

                        • 9. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          I bought the full Production Premium version so I could accomplish this clean install.

                           

                          You can get a fresh install from the 'upgrade' as well.  Previous versions do not have to be installed.  You only need the serial numbers from the earlier version.

                          • 10. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                            eddiem100 Level 1

                            There is a new Pro CS 5.0.2 update with a ton of fixes.  I installed it last night and tested it out on this particular situation and it did not seem to solve it.

                             

                            I have posted a new thread on this particular problem if anyone has data to this specific hang up issue.  Maybe for others it helped. 

                             

                            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/713437?tstart=0

                            • 11. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                              eddiem100 Level 1

                              Hey guys, the CS 5.0.2 fix made a dramatic improvement!  I've been working with it about 12 hours now with tons of p2 DVCPR HD media and

                              the lag is about 2-3 seconds when you click in and out of Premiere.

                               

                              However, when I first installed the update, I was bummed out - still getting about a 40 second lag - but check out my other thread from today!

                               

                              http://forums.adobe.com/thread/713437?tstart=0

                               

                              If you do not experience a dramatic improvement then you need to check to see if you have any AV software on your system. If so UNINSTALL it and find something that won't conflict with Premiere.  Even though you turn it off or turn it off in Task Manager or Process Explorer it may STILL have something going.  My system has 18 GB RAM and when I UNINSTALLED my AVS, I had an unbelieveable improvement. Very signficant.

                               

                              Hope it helps you guys out.

                              • 13. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                                joshtownsend Level 2

                                Hey Todd,

                                 

                                I've been testing it out a bunch before I posted about.

                                 

                                5.0.2 works great WHEN I TURN MY anti-virus off.  I tried turning AV off before the update a few times and it never helped, but now I have only a half second lag when ever I switch between...say.. After Effects and Premiere. If I leave the AV on I get the same 20 second lag time whenever I click off of Premiere or try to come back.

                                 

                                So far I's say my big nit-pick is solved....a little late but it's cool. What was so odd about the whole thing is that the CS4 reels had just a few seconds of lag but the CS5 had 20+

                                 

                                Judging from the other threads I'd say you might want to let people know that for bigger projects you need the AV off.

                                 

                                Thanks for asking Todd.Keep on Adobe and don't let the NLE and AE get lost like Apple seems like it is doing with FCP. Also MPE is great but without 3rd party plug-ins being able to access it, it is a little useless for pro stuff. At least let RED GIANT SOFTWARE in it, For me everyone I know Colorista 2 and MB Looks are a must. I can't say enought good things about Mandi and Stu the gang......And I know send a feature request....(I have many times)

                                 

                                One more thing. After the update I lost 80% of my pre-renders.

                                 

                                Bill and wonderspark,

                                 

                                I'll answer some other other questions about workflow a little later, I'm pretty busy right now trying to figure out the whole screener thing and the best way to approach watermarking it and such. Anyone heard of this place?  http://www.digiscreener.com/

                                • 14. Re: Finishing a feature film in PrproCS5 was a nightmare
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Great news Josh, and thanks for reporting.

                                   

                                  Cannot help you on that service - sorry.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt