1 2 Previous Next 52 Replies Latest reply on Sep 21, 2010 8:04 AM by ECBowen

    5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470

    SiliconPixel Level 1

      Probably one for Adobe:

       

      The 5.0.2 update adds support for the GTX470 but not the GTX480 - I was a bit surprised that the 480 was missing as it seems to have a very similar architecture to the 470 but faster and more cores etc.

       

      Can anyone shed some light on what the differences are with MPE support on the two cards?

       

      Oh well, time to mod the supported cards list again...

       

      Thanks,

       

      Paul.

        • 1. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
          Studio North Films Level 3

          I have both cards and when i have some time will do some benchmark tests.

           

          baz

          • 2. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
            Colin Brougham Level 6

            Disappointed that my 480 isn't "official," too. Oh, well... sometimes the gamble just doesn't pay off. The TXT file hack/mod works, as it did with 5.0.1. I've noticed that playback seems a bit snappier, particularly when transitioning from a non-GPU-accelerated to a GPU-accelerated region of a sequence, but scrubbing seems to be laggy and "chunky" compared to 5.0.1.

             

            Six of one, half-dozen of the other, I suppose. <wistful> Maybe in 5.0.3/5.1.0... </wistful>

            • 3. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
              Studio North Films Level 3

              What I have notived while doing some benchmark tests is the that gpu is getting used alot more than before, this increasing performance. mpeg-2 dvd is alot faster.

               

              Baz

              • 4. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                Colin Brougham Level 6

                Baz,

                 

                Does the utilization (and therefore, speed) seem to be the same regardless of whether you're using the AME Queue or direct export?

                • 5. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                  Studio North Films Level 3

                  This is something i am waiting to test. As with the 5.01 I found the direct export faster with certain types of files.

                   

                  Baz

                  • 6. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    No, there are huge differences in performance.

                     

                    AVI is around 4 times faster with direct export, MPEG is nearly 2.5 times slower and H.264 makes no difference.02-Sep-10 16-03-10.png

                    • 7. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      Harm,

                       

                      Is that with 5.0.2, or with 5.0.1? I recall that you and Bill had found this anomaly with the last update, but was curious if any code optimizations had been made with 5.0.2 to even the playing field, so to speak.

                      • 8. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        These results were with 5.02 and have been submitted in a bug report.

                        • 9. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                          Studio North Films Level 3

                          This is getting really frustrating,

                           

                          why cant we just have one export option.

                           

                          Harm please check your email.

                           

                          Baz

                          • 10. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            Curious how the Hardware MPE actually slows down the MPEG2-DVD export (an option that a LOT of folks are likely to be using), whether directly or from the queue.

                            • 11. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Jim,

                               

                              You have to keep in mind that MPE enabled encoding uses maximum quality and linear color encoding, which software encoding does not do unless MRQ is set. See the Background Information page here: PPBM5 Benchmark

                              • 12. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                software encoding does not do unless MRQ is set

                                 

                                Then it should be set for all comparative runs.  Otherwise your doing the whole apples/oranges thing.

                                • 13. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                  Orbidia
                                  My understanding was the the hacked gtx470/480 performed basically the same as the gtx285 because the drivers were a bit crippled. Maybe this was to help nvidia by nudging people to buy the uncrippled quadro cards.
                                  Supposedly, when Adobe officially supported the gtx470, it was supposed to utilize more of the available cores in the gtx470/480.
                                  My question is this:
                                  Now that the gtx470 is officially supported, is it actually any faster than using a gtx285 when using MPE? It should be if it is utilizing more Cuda cores properly. Otherwise, if both cards still perform equally, then Adobe is possibly still crippling the gtx470 on purpose.
                                  Another question, does a hacked gtx480 perform equal or better than an officially supported gtx470? Again, do the number of Cuda cores affect performance or are there artificial limits?
                                  • 14. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                    ray20101

                                    Hi Baz

                                     

                                    Did we meet up at a wedding in Huddersfield ?

                                     

                                    Raj

                                    • 15. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                      Studio North Films Level 3

                                      Hi,

                                       

                                      Raj

                                       

                                      You  Have PM.

                                       

                                      Baz

                                      • 16. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                        xavierpayne Level 1

                                        I am baffled too. I read months ago a post from what I thought was one of the Adobe devs commenting in a forum:

                                         

                                        http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38614&page=14

                                         

                                        Saying the 480 would be supported in CS5 sometime this fall.

                                         

                                        I bought an insane rig I'll be making payments on for the next two years that included a GTX 480 specifically for CS5. It's technically not fall yet so there is still time.

                                         

                                        True I can get it working with the hack. But if I knew I was buying a card that would never be officially supported I would have saved myself 200 dollars and popped for the gtx 460.

                                         

                                        All this to edit AVC from my "consumer grade" camcorder.

                                        • 17. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                          >  I read months ago a post from what I thought was one of the Adobe devs commenting in a forum

                                           

                                           

                                          That person was mistaken. That person no longer works for Adobe.

                                          • 18. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                            xavierpayne Level 1

                                            Doh!

                                             

                                            Thanks for the clarification Todd.

                                             

                                            I knew I was taking a chance since Adobe hadn't made any "official" announcement on it. So I can't really fault Adobe for that.

                                             

                                            I'm just frustrated because it seems no matter what I do I always remain behind the curve.

                                             

                                            I wasn't able to test the AVC functionality of CS4 before purchasing because AVC was disabled in the 30-day trial so I bought CS4 (in October 09) only to find out my Q6600 and GTX 8800 barely cut it for AVC. I also had no idea CS5 was just 6 months away and made of pure awesome.

                                             

                                            Then I spent all my money on an extreme edition i7 975 and a GTX 480 (because the 280 is nowhere to be found and none of the 400 series were officially supported at the time) in anticipation of upgrading to CS5.

                                             

                                            Still editing AVC in CS4 and it's only marginally better on the new rig.

                                             

                                            Was really looking forward to running CS5's MPE with CUDA, but it looks like I'll only be able to do that with the supported cards hack. Just my luck they'll remove that the day I finally get and install CS5.

                                             

                                            :-/

                                            • 19. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                              Soshman Level 1

                                              Hello Todd!

                                               

                                              I am currently using Vegas 8.0c and plan on moving over to Adobe CS5. And building a fairly expensive system to support it

                                               

                                              I have spent at least 2 months going back and forth and checking for the best decision to make at this point in time.

                                               

                                              But now i am back into confusion based on your response.

                                               

                                              Knowing that MPE would support new Nvidia cards and hearing hints of 470/480 being supported...i made a decision to go with the 480 when building the new machine.

                                               

                                              Now i wonder if it is worth the money investing in.

                                               

                                              You said this fellow was wrong and no longer working there.

                                               

                                              My questions to you:

                                               

                                              Was he wrong about the 480 ever being supported? or was it the timeframe ( or something else ) he was wrong about?

                                               

                                              Direct question...will the 480 ever be supported?

                                               

                                              I am starting the build this upcoming week...and quick answer would be well appreciated:-)

                                               

                                              Thanks,

                                               

                                              Mark

                                               

                                              PS I was in the Army (Germany) years ago with a Tom Kopriva from Cleaveland,Ohio (Avon?)...any relation?

                                              • 20. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                FelixUnderwood Level 2

                                                Mark & Xavier, Adobe has been silent about the 480 for some reason. Hundreds of people are successfully using the hack. So many, that Adobe is only likely to block the hack when they do officially support the 480. I bought the 480 for a rig I'm in the process of building and have no worries. At this point, the 480 doesn't offer much over the 470 performance wise with CS5, however, as Adobe adds more Cuda-based effects, the 480 may warrant it's increased heat output, power consumption, and increased cost! In summary, the 480 warrants no worries. We can only guess why it wasn't supported with the latest 5.0.2 update. Maybe it was to punish those of you out there using the hack! ;-)

                                                • 21. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                  Soshman Level 1

                                                  Felix Thank You!

                                                   

                                                  So nice to get a clear message.

                                                   

                                                  Sometimes i don't get all the secrecy.

                                                   

                                                  Hopefully they will support the full capability of the 480...and not being

                                                  stubborn because of the hacks for 480.

                                                  Why would you want to throttle your own customers?

                                                   

                                                  I like Adobe. I have been using Premiere elements since 2.0 and it is a

                                                  great marketing tool to get me to finally change over.

                                                   

                                                  I am sure i will still upgrade for the $250 to the new gpu supported Vegas

                                                  10 Getting the best of both worlds.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks again,

                                                   

                                                  Mark

                                                  • 22. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                    xavierpayne Level 1

                                                    Sosh> The 470 is officially supported as of 5.0.2 only the 480 is up in the air.

                                                     

                                                    You can see the post on the Adobe blog that mentions the official support of the 470 here:

                                                    http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2010/09/premiere-pro-cs5-5-0-2-update.html

                                                     

                                                    If you want garanteed support and you didn't already make your purchase the 470 is your safest bet.

                                                     

                                                    I'm currently in the predicament of whether or not to get CS5 at all, knowing the 480 only works based on a hack that could dissappear in a future update.

                                                     

                                                    The only incentive I have to invest in CS5 is to finally be able to edit AVC in real-time. Granted there are a handful of other new features, but I am not interested enough in them to justify the upgrade cost if performance is ultimately going to remain similar to CS4.

                                                    • 23. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                       

                                                      > Direct question...will the 480 ever be supported?

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Direct answer: We don't comment on future features in public forums.

                                                      • 24. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                        Soshman Level 1

                                                        Yikes!  Feels a bit like i asked the CIA for information.

                                                         

                                                        And it reminds me of when i had that piece of crap Serious Magic that Adobe

                                                        bought tried to fix... and retired it.

                                                        After over a grand trying to make that work (i was a newbie)...Adobe could

                                                        have had me as a customer...but a similar thing happened.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks for the direct answer Todd....but adobe doesn't know diddly about

                                                        sales if they let that answer be the final word to me.

                                                         

                                                        I wonder if they know how much business they lose on these forums on how

                                                        they treat folks.

                                                         

                                                        It just felt like a great big bank vault like door slammed in my face when i

                                                        read this. I waited for something more for an hour before my response here.

                                                         

                                                        A little switch flipped in me with that email... and i think ill just wait

                                                        on Vegas 10 instead of taking a chance with CS5.

                                                         

                                                        Not happy with Sony either...but sometimes it is easier to deal with the

                                                        devil you already know.

                                                        • 25. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                          Sheri Codiana Level 1

                                                          Commenting on future features in public forums has the potential to cause confusion and disappointment - see above reference to an employee talking about something he thought was going to be supported, and then it wasn't. This is a common practice for most technology companies.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Sheri

                                                          • 26. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                            Soshman Level 1

                                                            Thanks for your reply!

                                                             

                                                            Oh i get the typical corporate response...and i see all the frustration it brings with it from customers.

                                                             

                                                            I am suure we are at the end of this post and will be locked down soon.

                                                             

                                                            But i would just love one day to get a response like this from a Tech corporation.

                                                             

                                                            Hey Mark!

                                                             

                                                            Thanks so much for you interest in Adobe:-)

                                                             

                                                            We welcome your business and hope that your transition will be as smooth as possible.

                                                            If you have any issues please visit our Forums first as you can see we have a lot of excellent

                                                            support from our customers.

                                                            If you cannot get an answer...please write tech support and we will do our very best to get your issue resolved.

                                                             

                                                            As far as the 480 card. While we are looking at implementing it but we have not yet decided if this card is right for Premiere CS5. Because of company policy we are not allowed to tell people one way or another until we are sure and have worked out all the bugs.

                                                            So for now we can for sure tell you that the 470 will work. ( and if we do decide not to include the 480 we will announce this as well so as not to keep folks waiting )

                                                             

                                                            Thanks for this great question!

                                                             

                                                            Welcome aboard,

                                                             

                                                            XXXX

                                                             

                                                            Now i know i am really stretching it but i think your business would literally explode if you answered it something like this.

                                                             

                                                            The 480 is a great card. We would love to include this card not only for you.....but all the people using Adobe CS5 with the 480 card already installed.

                                                            Here is the deal...we have a deal with Nvidia in the works and we have to follow it.

                                                            Nvidia has a bunch of XXXX cards they need to sell first ( based on our estimates) before we authorize another card.

                                                            But dont worry Between us and Nvidia we see that a huge part of our customer base...including you are interested in this card because of the new fermi technology.

                                                            We want to make you happy...so hold tight...we also see an opportunity for us to increase sales based on what our customers want.

                                                             

                                                            WOW that felt good just pretending !!!

                                                             

                                                            Am i dreaming?...lol

                                                            • 27. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                              shooternz Level 6

                                                              And it reminds me of when i had that piece of crap Serious Magic that Adobe

                                                              bought tried to fix... and retired it.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Just interested ... what were you reffering to in  this statement?

                                                              • 28. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                Soshman Level 1

                                                                Maybe its not retired Shooternz?

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Well my first jump into editing was Serious Magic Visual Communicator and then VC2 back in 2003 -2004

                                                                 

                                                                It was really buggy but from the forums it seemed like if i got this piece of equipment or that it might work better.

                                                                 

                                                                As a newbie it was a horrible and frustrating experience...but i did learn a lot quickly.

                                                                 

                                                                After a few years of this Adobe bought them out.....and i remember feeling shut out.

                                                                And havinng to spend more money with Adobe after i had spent a fortune with Serious Magic.

                                                                 

                                                                My memory might be off a bit hear too.

                                                                 

                                                                I just remember considering Adobe Premier Pro at the time as something new.

                                                                But was so dissappointed with the transition and responses i got ( or didn't ) that i went elsewhere.

                                                                 

                                                                I did however buy Adobe Premiere elements 2.0 i think. When i installed the new software...it worked so well

                                                                that i knew it wasnt me or my computer...it was Serious Magic software most of the time.

                                                                 

                                                                It was bitter sweet.

                                                                 

                                                                At first ( as a newbie) i didnt think Customer support was important...now it is right at the top for my bigger purchases in life.

                                                                 

                                                                One day someone in video editing will figure it out.....and with great software i think there will be a big sucking sound

                                                                as people flock to it.....from word of mouth alone.

                                                                 

                                                                Who knows i might be full of it too:-)

                                                                • 29. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                  crouchingsamurai

                                                                  480 is slated to come out in the 5.0.3 update in the near future.  Plus Nvidia is closing in on a new driver update too!  End of third quarter is end of September.

                                                                  • 30. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                    Soshman Level 1

                                                                    Nice!

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks so much:-)

                                                                     

                                                                    you might have just helped CS5 finalize a sale

                                                                    • 31. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                      crouchingsamurai Level 1

                                                                      Your welcome.  Anxiously awaiting the updates as well.

                                                                       

                                                                      Rob

                                                                      • 32. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                        Sheri Codiana Level 1

                                                                        Crouchingsamurai, your information is interesting, since I'm the Program Manager for Premiere Pro... responsible for schedules, getting releases and updates out the door, managing scope of releases, among other things.

                                                                         

                                                                        Sheri

                                                                        • 33. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                          Soshman Level 1

                                                                          lol !

                                                                           

                                                                          Sheri...i gotta give you  a lot of credit.

                                                                           

                                                                          i like your answer

                                                                           

                                                                          more so i like that you are up at almost 11pm pdt on a Saturday answering posts

                                                                           

                                                                          Thank you!

                                                                          • 34. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                            crouchingsamurai Level 1

                                                                            Hi Cheri,

                                                                             

                                                                            Nice to hear from you.  Check with Nvidia if you question my sources.  Their testing beta now on 260.  And my connections have told me 480 is next.

                                                                             

                                                                            Chow!

                                                                            • 35. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                              crouchingsamurai Level 1

                                                                              Hi Sheri,

                                                                               

                                                                              Nvidia is beta testing 260.  And my sources have told me 480 by end of quarter 3.  Glad to hear your program manager.

                                                                               

                                                                              Rob

                                                                              • 36. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                                I sincerely hope you don't get your sources fired, or dismissed from the beta program at nVIDIA, since they likely violated their NDA to pass that info along to you.  And did you violate their trust by broadcasting that info here?

                                                                                 

                                                                                -Jeff

                                                                                • 37. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                                  crouchingsamurai Level 1

                                                                                  Hi Jeff,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Before you make remarks you should check the Nvidia website.  It lists the beta drivers available for download right on the website.   Informing someone about something that is free and available to the public is not getting someone fired or violating someone's trust. Not sure why you would make this kind of statement without checking the facts first.  That doesn't sound like a community professional talking.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Last time I checked disclosing information about something that is available to the public is not violating an NDA.  Your confused to say the least.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                                    Before you make wild speculation about the "impending" release of a nonexistent software update, you might explain why you believe a beta version of a hardware driver has ANYTHING to do with said software update. Adobe and nVidia are two different companies, with two completely different products, and while one company's product does use the other's, it's ridiculous to assume that they are connected in any way.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    You are the one who is confused about how this all works, and I think you need to retract your comments toward Jeff. If there is such a thing as a 5.0.3 update, whomever told you about is clearly in violation of their NDA or is BSing you. The Premiere Pro product manager has come out and told you that there is no such thing, and think about it--why would Adobe release one update so quickly after another when it clearly would have been in their practical and financial interest to just wait for that particular feature to be available and issue it in the last release?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    In short... knock it off.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: 5.0.2 and GTX 480 / 470
                                                                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                                      @Colin,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Thanks for that.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      @crouchingsamurai,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      All I did was ask so that you had something to think about.  Only you really know if what you did was right or wrong.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      -Jeff

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