16 Replies Latest reply on Jan 20, 2011 2:41 PM by Macnimation

    "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing

    JamesCun

      So I'm sure this is stupid but I can't get it to work.

       

      I have a character, every body part is a movieclip. Now I wanted to put a movieclip for the eyes inside of the headmovieclip so that I can change them independently from the mouth. So in the eye-movieclip that is inside of the head-movieclip I put two keyframes, one for opened eyes and one for closed eyes. I put it to "Single frame" in properties. Now, whenever I make a pose and I change the frame number under properties so that it displays the closed eyes, it does that for the whole movie, not only on the frames that I changed it.

       

      I wanted to use that to control things like eyes, ears and the mouth individually but like this it won't work, it changes it for the whole animation.

       

      Someone got a tip?

        • 1. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
          Ned Murphy Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I am unfamiliar with whatever the singe frame bit is, but if you want to change the eyes from being opened to being closed, and vice versa, you have to command the change from one frame to another in the eyes movieclip.  It will not happen on its own.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
            JamesCun Level 1

            Yes, but whenever I change it in the eyes movie clip its not just for that frame, it changes it for the whole animation.

             

            Example time: I have an 8 frame walk, on frame 5 I want to close the eyes, on frame 6 they should be open again. So I go to frame 5, go to the eyes movie clip and set it to closed. But then it is closed on every frame, 1-8.

             

            The "single frame" thing I mean is this:

            http://www.cubeupload.com/files/99a599screenshot201009.png

            http://www.cubeupload.com/files/41e65ascreenshot201009.png

             

            Normally I can select a movie clip, go to properties and there select "Single frame" and then the frame inside the movie clip to display (Under the First: thing). But as soon as I nest it into a movie clip, it changes it for the whole animation.

             

             

            For example, I can change the picture of the head movieclip by selecting a different frame, and it is only displayed on the keyframe where I selected the change, but when I do the same thing on the eyes clip which is nested inside the head clip, it changes it ALL. So I can not set it to open on frame 5, and closed on frame 6, since it opens it for all frames when I set it, and when I then set it to closed on frame 6, it closes it for all frames.

             

            I hope I explained it well enough. Thanks for replying Ned, I hope you can answer this one. Would be really cool, I can't get it through my skull.

            • 3. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
              Ned Murphy Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Seeing as how this is a graphic symbol, I reckon you are operating in the animator league (of which I am not a member).  In my case I would have this as a movieclip symbol with an instance name assigned and I would command the eyes movieclip to change to partcular frames as needed.

              • 4. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                JamesCun Level 1

                I am using inverse kinematics to animate the character. How would I go about doing it the way you mean? How would I make the eyes closed only for a few frames, but open at standard?

                Could you help me sort this out, I feel really stupid already, but I can't get it to work.

                • 5. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                  Ned Murphy Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I may not be the right person to help you for the approach you are taking, mainly because it seems you may be doing this the way a timeline-based animator (sans code) might know more about.... but I can explain what I would have done.

                   

                  First, every body part that you have for the figure would be a movieclip symbol with an instance name.  So let's say there is a "figure" movieclip (with that as an instance name), that contains a "head" movieclip, and the head movieclip contains the "eyes:" movieclip.  In the eyes movieclip I would have what you have and I would label the frames "opened" and "closed", and each frame would have a stop(); command in an actions layer.

                   

                  So if the timeline that holds the figure movieclip is going to dictate what happens when, I would use...

                   

                       figure.head.eyes.gotoAndStop("closed");

                   

                  in the frame where I want the eyes to close, and

                   

                       figure.head.eyes.gotoAndStop("opened");

                   

                  in the frame where I want the eyes to open

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                    carl schooff Level 3

                    as ned said, you keep saying you have a movieclip... but it is clear that you are using a graphic, this makes the problem a bit hard to understand.

                     

                    for the following issue:

                     

                    Example time: I have an 8 frame walk, on frame 5 I want to close the eyes, on frame 6 they should be open again. So I go to frame 5, go to the eyes movie clip and set it to closed. But then it is closed on every frame, 1-8.

                     

                    is there a keyframe at frame 6 in the layer where the eyes are? If not even thought the playhead is at frame 6, you are probably selecting the symbol at frame 1 and it is affecting the symbol for the entire timeline. please make sure you have a keyframe at frame 6.

                     

                    If you select the eyes at frame 6 and scale them to be bigger... do the eyes get bigger in frames 1-8 also? if so, then you don't have a keyframe in frame 6.

                     

                    if that doesn't solve your problem post a screencapture of your walk cycle timeline.

                    • 7. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                      JamesCun Level 1

                      Does that also work if all movie clips are not nested inside of each other? I have all body parts on the root stage, and only stuff that belongs to a body part is nested in, like eyes and the mouth.

                       

                      Somehow it doesn't work like you described with this inverse kinematic stuff. Its way more complicated and more things to consider than the way I do it now, which works perfectly fine, until I do the exact same thing while the clip is nested. If I would put all other movieclips in another clip, it probably wouldn't work either, I don't know.

                       

                      I mean why would this suddenly stop working? There must be something I don't know and that you have to consider when using this technique inside of other clips. I am usually a frame by frame animator so I don't have a lot of experience with this.

                       

                      I appreciate that you took the time to help me and explain your way to me. I would love if someone knew what I am doing wrong though, someone who does this too must have run into something like this before as well.

                       

                      Anyone?

                      • 8. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                        Ned Murphy Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        You could have the head separate from the figure with theyes in it on the timeline and just skip including the figure if it is not a clip within it...

                         

                        head.eyes.gotoAndStop....

                         

                        But I'm only saying that for info's sake, not to try to sway you to doing it.

                         

                        The only problem with your posting might be location, location, location....  I may be wrong, but I do spend a good amount of time in these main Adobe Flash forums and from my experience I have not seen alot of postings that involve animation practices.  But then that might just be my ignorance resulting from bypassing animation-related postings based on titles, presuming I wouldn't know about the topic.

                         

                        Here's what I suggest... start a new posting here and do your best to describe the scenario as best you can to avoid having a code-oriented person like myself trying to help again.  Postings with 0 replies draw more attention, and maybe someone else who knows something will wander by and pick up on it.  You should also see if you can find some forum somewhere that is more focused on Flash timeline animation techniques.  Unfortunately, it appears Adobe does not have a Flash forum dedicated to that topic.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                          JamesCun Level 1

                          Here? You mean right here?

                           

                          I looked for forums before, but I thought this being the official ones where all the people hang around...

                           

                          Don't misunderstand me, I'm very happy you tried to help, and the explanation you gave didn't hit concrete, it helped me understand the other way of doing it.

                           

                          Your first sentence I don't quite get, but the reason I wanted to include the eyes in the head is that they would always move with the head, having not to worry about getting their position right all the time and reducing clutter.

                           

                          Do you have a suggestion for a better title for the subject? I'm having a hard time sometimes to describe a problem in the shortest way.

                          • 10. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                            Ned Murphy Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            I mean right in this same forum, just a new posting.

                             

                            I understand entirely why you want the eyes in the head... that's what I'd do.

                             

                            Instead of the shortest way, just try to figure out the clearest way.  More information is better than less, as long as it is good information.  I know that having an arm's length for a posting will send people away at a glance, but if you can get to the point directly, making it clear what you are doing (include that picture of the Single Frame interface) then there's a better chance you'll hit paydirt.

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                              JamesCun Level 1

                              meglomor, sorry, I totally read past your reply!

                               

                              I was saying I have a movieclip because I converted my things to a movieclip, apparently the bone tool made a graphic out of it.

                               

                              And to your question: The eyes are not on a layer next to the headlayer, they are inside the heads graphic/MC. And yes, I put 2 keyframes there, one for open and one for closed. I make a keyframe at frame 5 and 6, go into the "head" on frame 6 and select the eyes symbol there, then I go to properties and choose "single frame. First: 2 (second frame for the closed one), but then the eyes are closed on all frames.

                              • 12. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                                Ned Murphy Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I made a simple demo file of what I was describing.  You'll notice that the head and the eyes are both movieclip symbols in the library, where the eyes are in the head symbol so that they move together.  Both are assigned instance names (via the properties panel) so that they can be targeted using the code that is on the top layer of the main timeline.

                                 

                                http://www.nedwebs.com/Flash/Animated_face.fla

                                 

                                If you start a new posting, one thing you might want to avoid, is mentioning the use of movieclips if you are actually using graphic symbols.  So maybe the title would be along the lines of "How do I control a child graphic symbol animation (via looping setting)?"  Adjust for whatever misconception I might have.  When you explain the problem, try to address when it works for you versus when it fails.  And as I mentioned, to keep us coders out of the way, show that interface where you set the Looping.

                                • 13. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                                  JamesCun Level 1

                                  Ok I made a little example (which is not as nice as yours) which shows what I am trying to do, and maybe you will see what I am doing from. I'm sure the only reason why this won't work is because I lack a basic understanding of some function of flash or some way things work.

                                   

                                  Here is the link, maybe you or meglomor can take a look at it.

                                  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6414392/Example.fla

                                   

                                  I'd love if it would be possible to do this over the interface rather than code, because that would help me to organize things better I think.

                                  • 14. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                                    carl schooff Level 3

                                    i tried opening your file but could not. I'm using cs4.

                                     

                                    I think this video at around the 6 minute mark may exactly address your issue. It has to do with syncing graphics and the new motion tweens in cs4 / cs5

                                     

                                    http://layersmagazine.com/flash-cs4-motion-tweening.html

                                    • 15. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                                      JamesCun Level 1

                                      That does indeed explain exact the technique I am using, however, it still shows what I already know and what works for me too. (He changes the complete faces of the character, I can do that too, but once you put another symbol inside the head it doesn't work anymore, and thats what I'm trying to figure out).

                                       

                                      I tried selecting only a single keyframe by ctrl-clicking and going into the headsymbol but it selects the whole armature layer when I do that, so it changes it for the whole animation.

                                       

                                      Edit:

                                      I found something in the comments of that video:

                                      "Unfortunately, you can’t use the nested graphic symbol trick in IK either. IK armatures require (actually, *are*) a special kind of timeline layer, just like new-style motion tweens. They operate in a different mode from that used with classic and shape tweens, and in this case, it means the same drawback occurs."

                                       

                                      Well that is probably the problem.

                                       

                                      Now, this might sound dumb, but is there a way to stick a symbol to another one, so it follows? Kind of like nesting it inside another symbol? The only reason I want to put it inside the head is that I want it to stick with the head at all times so I don't have to rearrange it all the time.

                                      • 16. Re: "Single frame" inside nested movieclip doesn't work, always changes the whole thing
                                        Macnimation Level 1

                                        Dont use kinetics or movieclips for body parts, it will cause all sorts of issues and timing problems.

                                         

                                        What you want to do is much simpler but not very easy to explain.

                                         

                                        The problem with using movieclips is that you cannot test your timing and movement unless you publish each time. This is not normal practise in the animation industry that uses Flash. Everything is done using graphic symbols, as they play in realtime as you scrub the timeline.

                                         

                                        The only Movieclip you should have is the complete animated character. this is then dragged onto the stage with the background and props.

                                         

                                        All parts that you want to animate like eye blinks and mouth movements should be nested graphics symbols, as you can scrub the timeline and view the movement etc without the need to publish.


                                        Within the completed Character Movieclip should be the parts of the character in their own layers, top arm, bottom arm, neck, legs, feet , head, etc.

                                         

                                        Each should be a Graphic symbol, that inside each graphic symbol, for example the head, you break that down in layers to right eye, left eye, nose, ears, face etc.Anything that would be used for shape tweening within the head would not be a symbol, like the face shape or eye brows, as this lets you push and pull the shapes as required, but if the part just needs to move, like an eye then it will be a symbol on its own layer.

                                         

                                        The important hting to remember is to use a duplicate of each symbol for the animation sequence so that the original is not effected by animation, so you can use it again for another scene etc.

                                         

                                        What people who are trying this for the first time dont realise is that the eyes blinking timeline should be the same length in the its timeline as the completed total movement, as it will match up.

                                         

                                        The mouth should be a graphic symbol, create a different mouth on each frame ( basic option) in the mouth symbol. I tend to animate the mouth in the mouth Graphic symbol.

                                         

                                        In the head symbol, drag out the timeline for the length of the speech , put a keyframe (f6) in the timeline for each mouth change. Click on the keyframe, then click on the highlighted mouth symbol on the stage. In the properties under Looping, you can then change the frame of the mouth symbol and choose single frame. the mouth will then change to that mouth.

                                         

                                        You can then move the mouth around using a classic tween to move with the head while it talks.

                                         

                                        Hope this doesn't sound too confusing. Basically you are using traditional animation methods but no coding etc is required. This is the technique used for many cartoons, like Mr Men, Fairy Oddparents etc that are showing at the moment....