24 Replies Latest reply on Sep 8, 2010 9:10 PM by shooternz

    Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5

    DVDmike Level 1

      Can this be done inside of looks anywhere?  If you add a blur or vignette over your actor's face, for example, you need the effect to follow the actor as he/she moves over the frame.  Is it possible to do this type of keyframing in PPro or AE?

        • 1. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          You have got me on Keyframing Looks, but for your examples, you can do those with the included Effects in PrPro easily, and they do Keyframe.

           

          I know that Jim Simon uses Looks quite a bit, and can probably directly help you on your question.

           

          However, if that is not possible - all is not lost. Here is a TUTORIAL on the blurring of faces. Though for Pr 6.0, IIRC, all will work in CS5. Here is a newer TUTORIAL for doing similar in PrPro 2.0.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
            DVDmike Level 1

            Thanks Bill.  The effects that I mentioned were just the tip of the iceberg of options with looks.  You can use "masks" inside of looks for all of their individual effects that get layered together.  Its almost like using layers in photoshop without having the ability to mask each layer independently.  I think that I can do moving masks on a single PP effect easily and Looks gives you an ability to easily keyframe a mask on the effect in its entirety too.  But I cannot figure out how to keyframe the individual effects inside of looks.  If it cannot be done, it is a real shame and really diminishes its value for video.  I think that I just must be missing something in the interface.  Maybe Jim will weigh in later.

            • 3. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              I kind of thought that there was much more, but in case that was the limit, wanted to give some options.

               

              Hope that Jim, or another MB Looks user, stops by, as they can offer much more help, than I can.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                Eric Addison User Group Manager

                As a long time Looks user, I can say with 99% certainty that you can't set keyframes the way you want. Wish you could!

                • 5. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                  DVDmike Level 1

                  Thanks Eric, until now I have just been using looks for basic adjustments made to the entire image.  Now I am starting to dig deeper and have been learning that it can do much more.  But much of the advanced functionality is almost worthless without the ability to keyframe.  I could stack up the effects 4 times on the clip and apply one aspect at a time and use the mask to keyframe the mask for each effect.  But that is just too much work I think and still only lets the mast travel.  I still could not adjust the parameters over time.  With such powerful adjustments available, it is a real shame that they are not keyframable.

                  • 6. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                    Eric Addison User Group Manager

                    You should head over to Red Giant Software and let them know - they are really good at listening to users

                    suggestions. I know they just finished an update to Colorista (which is GREAT by the way!) - maybe a new version

                    of Looks isn't too far off...

                    • 7. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                      shooternz Level 6

                      You can not key frame the mask in Looks

                       

                      But Colorista II is a whole new "ball game".

                       

                      All I can say is...try it...or at least watch the tutorials.  (from Stu )

                       

                      Its a game changer.

                      • 8. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                        joshtownsend Level 2

                        You can keyframe the overall look as a whole but it's very hard to control. Shooternz is right though Colorista 2 is like having a mini DaVinci in AE or PrPro. Word on the streets is there might be a new version of Looks in the pipeline soon.

                         

                        If Red Giant Software were a girl I'd have a huge crush........

                        • 9. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                          DVDmike Level 1

                          I watched the tutorial on colorista 2 and it does look really good and I want it.

                          • 10. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                            Thrill Media Level 2

                            No keyframing in MB Looks yet.  When traveling masks are required I usually layer them in AE to finish the shot.  However, I read a post somewhere that they are well aware of the need and are making plans for the next release.

                            • 11. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                              DVDmike Level 1

                              It looks like I will have to upgrade at some point at yet again another added expense.

                              • 12. Re: Keyframing Magic Bullet Looks in PPCS5
                                Tayedrummer Level 1

                                I just finished colouring a 5 min project with Colourista and I have to warn you...the workflow is horr-en-dous.

                                 

                                Colorista2 claims to be fully compatible with PremiereCS5 but it's essentially unusable on that platform.  These were the problems I had;

                                 

                                • I prefer to have my main display dedicated to a large window for the image I'm working on and the tools palette, controls etc on the secondary display. None of the colour wheels (primary/secondary/master/HSL) work at all if the effect controls window is undocked and residing on a secondary display in either Premiere or After Effects.
                                • When the effect controls are docked back on the main display the adjustments are unbearably sluggish in Premiere and double clicking a setting, either on the wheel or on the collar, do not reset that setting as shown in the tutorial videos.
                                • Secondary power mask doesn't show up at all in the main window and can only be seen if you change the view mode to 'show key', even then you can't click and drag the shape you want, you much use the width/height/rotation/etc sliders to make the shape you want. In practice this is unbelievably frustrating.
                                • Secondary key was intermittently bringing up a frame of another clip other than the one that was selected making it completely unusable.

                                You can successfully export the Premiere project to After Effects where each and every clip is turned into a composition and dropped onto it's own layer.  Colorista2 does work as advertised inside After Effects but After Effects doesn't have any scopes and requires you to render again and again and again since it isn't built for realtime playback without rendering first.  It's REALLY not made for viewing clips more than a few seconds in length so forget sitting back and looking at the first few minutes of work you've completed.  When you're done you don't have the same flexible output options that you do in Premiere.

                                 

                                I tried colouring in After Effects and then sending it back to Premiere but it took a project that was all on a single video layer, spread it over six layers and while Colorista2 had been applied to the clips, all the settings were nulled out so all the work was lost.

                                 

                                That's my experience on a i7/12Gb/GTX480/5Tb RAID/Win7-64Pro system.

                                 

                                I e-mailed Red Giant tech support and they confirmed all the issues I raised but could only acknowledge that this is the way Colourista2 works with those two platforms.

                                 

                                I'm going to try to get a refund as I find their marketing of the product as fully CS5 compatible is totally misleading and this plugin was about half the price of Premiere itself.

                                 


                                • 13. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                  DVDmike Level 1

                                  Ouch!  They didn't even say that they would "fix" bugs at some point?

                                  • 14. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                    Tayedrummer Level 1

                                    Red Giant's position is that it is a problem with Premiere and not their software so they are waiting for Adobe to change Premiere to allow their software to work.

                                     

                                    My question is; if you're selling aftermarket tires for trucks and marketing them for use with the Ford F-150 and Ford Ranger but in reality they will only will only stay on the F-150 can you really say that there is nothing wrong with your tires and it is incumbent upon Ford to change the Ranger?

                                     

                                    Colourista2 is pretty much non-functional in Premiere and After Effects is not a friendly platform for working on clips that are more than a few seconds in length.

                                     

                                    Hopefully they can get it to work but the feedback from tech support has me asking for a refund.

                                    • 15. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                      shooternz Level 6

                                      "Horrendous"

                                       

                                      Colourista2 is pretty much non-functional in Premiere and After Effects is not a friendly platform for working on clips that are more than a few seconds in length.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Your experience certainly does not match mine at all.

                                       

                                      I use CS5 on a single (27") monitor for the UI plus a second monitor as Playback.

                                       

                                      I do not DL or work back in forth beteween PPRO and AEFX for any Colorista action.

                                       

                                      I dont and wouldnt generally do the Colorista work in AEFX anyway.

                                       

                                      Interested to hear other experiences.

                                      • 16. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                        Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                        From the time I've spent with Colorista II, it's been very good for me. I will admit that the controls can be a bit sluggish in PPro, and that is due to something in PPro and how it handles plug-ins. From what I understand, Red Giant and Adobe are aware of it - as too when to expect a fix, I've no idea. But I've had a good experience with it so far. I wouldn't say it's bad at all - again, a bit sluggish at times but I've used it on a few projects so far with great success. Much like Josh, I've got a lot of love for Red Giant and their products.

                                         

                                        As for the cost, you know I have to say that Red Giant (in my opinion) was VERY fair with the CS5 upgrade prices...$29 - that's a deal and a half in my book. These companies need to make money - they do a lot of work on these plug-ins and expecting them for free isn't reasonable. Now, bug fixes for existing products - those I think should be free.

                                        • 17. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                          Tayedrummer Level 1

                                          Ok, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

                                           

                                          Can you reset the colour wheels or their collars by double clicking?

                                          How do you adjust your secondaries and powermasks and can you keyframe them?

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          As for the cost, the upgrade is $99 and I paid $299 for it.  Premiere itself is only $799 as a stand-alone.

                                           

                                          For sluggishness of the wheels I have to click and drag from one side of my Wacom tablet to the other to get subtle changes yet I can go from one 24" monitor to the other without lifting my palm..   Maybe it's a matter of taste but I find that unbearable.

                                           

                                          Everything works just fine in AFX which would be great if AFX was a platform for colour grading.

                                          • 18. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                            Eric Addison User Group Manager
                                            function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                            Tayedrummer wrote:

                                             

                                            As for the cost, the upgrade is $99 and I paid $299 for it.  Premiere itself is only $799 as a stand-alone.

                                             

                                            Sorry - I was talking about the cost of going from the CS4 to CS5 versions of the plug-ins...

                                            • 19. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                              DVDmike Level 1

                                              to upgrade to Colorista II, it is $99.  There is no $29 upgrade from I to II.

                                               

                                              I have installed C II on my system.  AFter 45 minutes of use, I can tell you that it has serious issues in PP CS5. 

                                               

                                              There is no way to visually see the mask which makes masking almost impossible.

                                               

                                              Worse yet, I have had serious issues displaying the full and/or correct image in the keyer window.  Once it would only display the top half of image, even if I zoomed in.  Next, it displayed another clip's video entirely.  Just crazy.

                                               

                                              Switching to editing the clips using dynamic link in AE, C II , I have yet to find any issues.  But using AE to color correct clips inside of PPro has its own issues.

                                               

                                              This is after 45 minutes of effort.  So more troubles might be found later.  But from what I have seen, I would download the demo before I purchased C II for PPro CS5.

                                              • 20. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                                shooternz Level 6

                                                @Tayedrummer

                                                 

                                                Couple of things.

                                                 

                                                I have not tried using Colorista with my Wacom Tablet but I will test it for you later today.

                                                 

                                                Resetting. :  I have found (discovered) that if I go into the "numerical" interface, ..the little calculator Icon at the top left of the Color Wheels Box... I can Alt click on any of the data to re set it.

                                                 

                                                I have not found a way to re set directly on the wheels  but you can also alt click on the data. there.

                                                • 21. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                                  Eric Addison User Group Manager
                                                  function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                  DVDmike wrote:

                                                   

                                                  to upgrade to Colorista II, it is $99.  There is no $29 upgrade from I to II.

                                                   

                                                  See previous post...

                                                   

                                                  function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                   

                                                  There is no way to visually see the mask which makes masking almost impossible..

                                                   

                                                  I use the Red Overlay option and I can see the mask that way....or are you talking about something else?

                                                  • 22. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                                    shooternz Level 6

                                                    I also use the Red Overlay  to see the mask.  (Which BTW ...is key frameable.)

                                                     

                                                    I believe I read that they are trying to fix the mask so it displays as it does in in AEFX.

                                                    • 23. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                                      Tayedrummer Level 1
                                                      function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                      Worse yet, I have had serious issues displaying the full and/or correct image in the keyer window.  Once it would only display the top half of image, even if I zoomed in.  Next, it displayed another clip's video entirely.  Just crazy.

                                                       

                                                      Yes, this is one of the issues I reported.  Makes trying to key randomly impossible.  No response from Red Giant on that one.

                                                       

                                                      function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                      Resetting. :  I have found (discovered) that if I go into the "numerical" interface, ..the little calculator Icon at the top left of the Color Wheels Box... I can Alt click on any of the data to re set it..


                                                      Good tip thanks.  Not the way it's supposed to work but a good tip.

                                                       

                                                      function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                      I use the Red Overlay option and I can see the mask that way....or are you talking about something else?

                                                       

                                                      There should be a shape displayed in the image window that you can drag, move and stretch into the shape you want (as shown in the tutorials and in After Effects).  When using the red mask option you have to scrub (the sluggish) numerical values to try and make your shape.  Doesn't sound too tough but in practice I've found it taking forever and a day to get the shape right and in the right position.  The same task in After Effects takes seconds....but then you have to continually render the clip.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Thanks for the insights but it doesn't sound like anyone has Colorista2 working the way it is shown to in the tutorial videos, at least not within Premiere.

                                                      • 24. Re: Colorista 2 in PPCS5
                                                        shooternz Level 6

                                                        I havent experienced that keyer issue either.

                                                         

                                                        The overlay method is fine to work with.