21 Replies Latest reply on Sep 12, 2010 1:45 PM by Noel Carboni

    Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.

    Level 4

      <wishful thinking>

       

      ACR 6.x works in 32 bits when hosted by Bridge.  That leads me to speculate that it might be feasible to come up with a version that could run in 32 bits hosted by Photoshop 11.0.2 on a PPC machine if Cocoa can run on a PPC under 10.4.11, which I don't know, admittedly.

       

      Without a doubt I'd be more than happy to pay, say, $225 for such a plug-in.

       

      Synchronicity: I see a lot of print shops in my area, and even photographers here and elsewhere, who did not upgrade to CS5 because they're on PPC machines.

       

       

      </wishful thinking>

       

       

      ____________

      Wo Tai Lao Le

      我太老了

        • 1. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
          Noel Carboni Level 7

          The PowerPC was nice - I personally felt that IBM's/Motorola's architectural direction was superior to that of Intel's.  But alas it appears you are faced with moving over to Intel to stay current.  Notice I did not say moving "up".

           

          With a product as complex as Camera Raw and Photoshop, it's difficult to imagine that the software could just be recompiled to run on a completely different processor without a major integration, debugging, and testing effort.  This, of course, costs time and money, and Adobe simply appears to have chosen not to spend that, and to simply leave the remaining pre-Intel Apple market behind in preference to creating software for the future.

           

          I've always been mildly surprised that the breaks in the Apple "compatibility chain" are accepted by the market without much fanfare.

           

          I've come to realize over time that maintaining a current professional-level compute capability (either via Mac or PC) costs roughly $1,000 a year per seat, excluding software.  The capability is ever increasing, but the price seems to have been relatively constant, even since the '80s.

           

          Tai, I hope you've been saving up for a nice, new Mac Pro.

           

          -Noel

          • 2. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
            Level 4

            Noel Carboni wrote:

             

            …I've always been mildly surprised that the breaks in the Apple "compatibility chain" are accepted by the market without much fanfare…

             

            Unfortunately, this appears to be regarded as a necessary business model.  I might have to accept it, but I don't like it.

             

             

             

            Noel Carboni wrote:

             

            …maintaining a current professional-level compute capability (either via Mac or PC) costs roughly $1,000 a year per seat, excluding software…

             

            The problem with that figure is precisely that it excludes software.

             

            In my case, I'd be looking at an expenditure of many, many thousands of dollars just to abandon the PPC platform as many of my applications require Classic, and some of my custom software that cost in the mid-to-high five figures to acquire cannot be replaced at any cost on any platform, Mac or Windows, as it ceased to be developed because it was such a small niche market.  That is why I posted.

             

            Upon further reflection and in the face of what I just wrote, I should be willing to pay substantially more for a 32-bit version of ACR that ran on a PPC machine under Tiger 10.4.11 than the $225 I indicated in my original post.  Alternatively, I'd move over to a different but equivalent raw converter in a heart beat.

             

            Thank you for understanding.

             

             

             

            ____________

            Wo Tai Lao Le

            我太老了

            • 3. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
              Level 4

              Noel Carboni wrote:

               

              …Tai, I hope you've been saving up for a nice, new Mac Pro.

               

              -Noel

               

              That is simply not in the cards for an old, disabled individual on a meager fixed income.

               

               

              ____________

              Wo Tai Lao Le

              我太老了

              • 4. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                Jeff Schewe Level 5

                Tai Lao wrote:

                 

                In my case, I'd be looking at an expenditure of many, many thousands of dollars just to abandon the PPC platform as many of my applications require Classic, and some of my custom software that cost in the mid-to-high five figures to acquire cannot be replaced at any cost on any platform, Mac or Windows, as it ceased to be developed because it was such a small niche market.  That is why I posted.

                 

                The fact that Photoshop CS5 is MacIntel only should not have come as a surprise...Apple and Adobe have been warning people for a couple of years.

                 

                In your case, it's unfortunate, but that is the reality. Apple has moved on and as a result, so has Adobe. There will be no going back. Your situation-where you have a lot of locked in software-is unfortunate, but that's the way it is. You could of course continue using your old PPC machine and add a MacIntel such as the Mac Mini for not much money. Even the Mini running Snow Leopard would be faster than pretty much any PPC machine running Tiger. But wishing for a PPC version of Photoshop ain't gonna make it happen.

                • 5. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                  Level 4

                  Jeff Schewe wrote:

                   

                  …The fact that Photoshop CS5 is MacIntel only should not have come as a surprise…

                   

                  It did not, and I never said it did. 

                   

                   

                   

                  Jeff Schewe wrote:

                   

                  …You could of course continue using your old PPC machine and add a MacIntel such as the Mac Mini for not much money. Even the Mini running Snow Leopard would be faster than pretty much any PPC machine running Tiger…

                   

                  Yes, I supposed I could—if had the money.  For even less money, I could also buy just an upgrade to CS5 to run on a cheap Windows laptop which I have already. 

                   

                  There are also some guys in Davis building custom Mac Pros for Less than $1,700  ("Mac Pro Snow Leopard 3.8Ghz Quad-Core, 12GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB HDD - $1675").


                   

                  Jeff Schewe wrote:

                   

                  … But wishing for a PPC version of Photoshop ain't gonna make it happen.

                   

                   

                  No, I'm not wishing for that at all.  I already have one.  It's called CS4 and it already does more than I need, except run ACR 6.x. 

                   

                  My admittedly wishful thinking was that there might—just might—be a market for a thousand copies of ACR 6.x to run on a PPC machine hosted by CS4, provided that a quarter of a million dollars were incentive enough (1,000 copies at $250 each). 

                   

                  It's not the end of the world.  ACR 5.7 is pretty impressive already.

                   

                   

                  ____________

                  Wo Tai Lao Le

                  我太老了

                  • 6. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                    Noel Carboni Level 7

                    Just a SWAG:  A quarter million in sales might finance a development effort involving everyone on staff needed to engineer, test, and release a new Camera Raw for an old Photoshop for a week or two.  And that's assuming the level of Cocoa compatibility you mentioned exists.  I doubt that this would be enough time to actually prepare a product for release for just the waning PowerPC Mac market.  And of course these people are not just sitting on their hands now...

                     

                    All the CS4 users on Intel systems as well would, of course, want a version for them...

                     

                    But of course the Adobe Marketeers would say that doing this would cut into Photoshop CS5 sales, as well as pointing out that no one can actually predict that there actually would be 1,000 PowerPC sales...  Maybe it would only be 100...  Marketeers would rather talk about the potentially millions of sales of CS6 with whatever gee whiz features are currently being engineered...

                     

                    -Noel

                    • 7. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                      Level 4

                      I find it amusing that you take this so seriously, Mr. Carboni.

                      • 8. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                        Noel Carboni Level 7

                        Nah, I'm not taking anything seriously.  This is what I do for fun.  You don't want to see me when I'm really serious. 

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                          Level 4

                          Noel Carboni wrote:

                           

                          …All the CS4 users on Intel systems as well would, of course, want a version for them…

                           

                          No, not if if buying the plug-in were more expensive than the upgrade to CS5.

                          • 10. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                            Noel Carboni Level 7

                            Sure they would.  You think you're the only one who finds it expensive to upgrade for other than obvious reasons?  Imagine a photography/design shop that's got some new cameras, but doesn't want to have to do all the IT work to move everyone up to CS5.  Resistance to change is very powerful.  Minimizing change is considered good business until it becomes compelling.

                             

                            -Noel

                            • 11. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                              Hudechrome Level 2

                              Making it backwards compatible to, say CS2 would be even better. There are some compelling reasons for many to want to hang on to what works well for them. It's a matter of the tool being right for both the job and the person. Working towards the highest levels of accomplishment often falls decisively on the tool itself. Witness the concert pianists who sometimes take months to select a piano from Steinway for an upcoming recital.

                               

                              The last two days were spent in revisiting an image for which I have a particular fondness. I ran it the first time in CS3 with of course, ACR4, the last version to be offered. It is black and white, from a stitched 3 panel medium sweep panorama. When I first did it, I had no distortion controls in place. This time, I took the RAW files, ran them through the DXO corrections for geometry and such, no color or value shifts whatsoever. They ran in ACR 6.2 with the same settings attached from ACR4xx. I stitched them using the current CS5 stitching tools.

                               

                              Because I have no record of all the changes I made along the way to the final image, I had to fly by wire so to speak. In any operation of this sort for myself, the chnages I make are synergestic in the sense that the next change is informed by the previous changes, in line with the image I have in the minds eye.

                               

                              When I finished, or at least got to a stopping place, I opened the first version, and was blown away by the difference! The big difference was that the geometrically correct presentation lacked a quality that the fist had, in which the landscape tended to lie in the background behind a reservoir. Add to that the changes in values which were aided by the additional capabilities of CS5  The new version has the mountain range on an equal level in terms of pictorial balance with the reservoir (The Tumalo Reservoir in Bend OR, for those here who know about it).The short of it is there is no way the two will ever speak the same qualities, and while version 2 is geometrically correct, it ordinariness makes it a non-contender for final presentation. The certain je ne sais quoi, is missing for me from the second version, although without the first version, the second would be acceptable.

                               

                              Notice I said acceptable.

                               

                              Makes me wonder about all those images that have bit the dust because they did keep their promise. Or future ones that also don't make the grade in CS5.

                               

                              But then, others hopefully will arrive at their promise because of CS5 and the other, added tools.

                               

                              Oh well, Chopin owned two pianos.

                              • 12. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                Noel Carboni Level 7
                                function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                Hudechrome wrote:


                                Because I have no record of all the changes I made along the way to the final image, I had to fly by wire

                                 

                                Lawrence, try this:

                                 

                                1.  Edit - Preferences - General.

                                2.  Check [ ] History Log, and set it to record a Text File, Edit Log Items:  Detailed.

                                 

                                Voila, now you have a record of everything you do in Photoshop.

                                 

                                On a note related to your findings, I have come to the conclusion that I don't want geometric corrections done automatically, though I do like the lens profile based CA and vignetting corrections.

                                 

                                -Noel

                                • 13. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                  Hudechrome Level 2

                                  Thanks, Noel.

                                   

                                  I actually used it some time ago when doing some work which was to be used in court. I wanted to be sure that all I said Idid I could back up. Didn't think to set it up for tracking for my purposes.

                                  • 14. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                    Hudechrome Level 2

                                    It looks like I would only need to enable it if I want a particular session to be saved in that form, and I should do that before exiting the image.

                                    • 15. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                      Noel Carboni Level 7

                                      Not that much info is logged, in plain text.  Why not just leave it on all the time?  I don't think you'll see a performance hit.

                                       

                                      -Noel

                                      • 16. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                        Hudechrome Level 2

                                        The problem is where to store the info? The utility wants to know, and if you are not on top of things, you may lose track. I was going to leave it on, but would have to change it's save loaction every time I opened a file.

                                         

                                        Perhaps I sould simply set up a single location for all of it. Hopefully, I'll be able to track by file name there.

                                        • 17. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                          Hudechrome Level 2

                                          It's not reasonable to leave it on all the time because it logs all the data to one folder. You could wind up with 1000's of images in there, some repeated.

                                           

                                          I checked "Both" but I haven't found where the metadata for the CS5 session is stored.

                                           

                                          So, it will be a onesie usage. My preference would be that once PS closes, it defaults to History Log unchecked. I Know I'll forget to turn it off!! 

                                          • 18. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                            Noel Carboni Level 7

                                            It logs one single text file, to which subsequent sessions are appended, and does not store multiple images in the folder you choose (at least not with the settings I use).

                                             

                                            I have one folder, C:\Temp, that's a scratch area for most everything I do.  I've been accumulating my latest incarnation of the Photoshop Edit Log.txt file in there for almost a month of daily editing, and it's not even a megabyte yet.

                                             

                                            -Noel

                                            • 19. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                              Hudechrome Level 2

                                              That's not the problem. The problem is relating those messages to all the incarnations of an image, especially stitches or other multiple imaging techniques. I am rather lax at specific names for images since they reside in well identified folders. From that I can figure out what images any composites use. If they survive to a permanent print status, I do rename them in that folder. So the vastly preferred method is to store all data with the image . Metadata should do that but so far, I haven't found the location for PS (not ACR) metadata.

                                               

                                              And here's the problem:

                                               

                                              Question: What file did PS Open?

                                               

                                              Shadows/Highlights
                                                      Shadow/Highlight
                                                          Shadow: Parameters
                                                          Amount: 50%
                                                          Tone Width: 19%
                                                          Radius: 300
                                                          Highlight: Parameters
                                                          Amount: 48%
                                                          Tone Width: 22%
                                                          Radius: 300
                                                          Black Clip: 0.01
                                                          White Clip: 0.01
                                                          Contrast: 10
                                                          Color Correction: 20
                                                  Curves 1 Layer
                                                      Make adjustment layer
                                                          Using: adjustment layer
                                                          With Clipping Mask
                                                          Type: curves
                                                          Preset Kind: Default
                                                  Modify Curves Layer
                                              2010-09-12 11:57:28    File _DSC6100.NEF closed
                                                      Set current adjustment layer
                                                          To: curves
                                                          Preset Kind: Factory Preset
                                                          Using: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS5 (64 Bit)\Presets\Curves\Linear Contrast (RGB).acv
                                                      Close
                                                          Saving: no

                                               

                                              Answer: 2010-09-12 11:57:28    File _DSC6100.NEF  because that's what closed.

                                               

                                              Very poor, imo. I have the earlier folder and I could not spot the opening in every case, but some files were actually shown "Opened xxxx...."

                                               

                                              Also, no ACR data is present so the file is woefully incomplete. But at least I have what PS did. That is accurate.

                                              • 20. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                                Level 4

                                                Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                 

                                                …Imagine a photography/design shop that's got some new cameras…

                                                 

                                                 

                                                That is totally irrelevant to the train of thought that motivated this purely whimsical post. For me the issue is not coverage of new cameras at all; my cameras are covered by previous versions of ACR already.

                                                 

                                                My curiosity was only in the improved NR and v 2010 rendering in ACR 6.x.  Emphasis on curiosity as opposed to need.

                                                 

                                                No need to reply, this thread served its purpose even before there were any replies to my original post.

                                                • 21. Re: Wishful thinking—again.  ACR 6.x on PPC Macs.
                                                  Noel Carboni Level 7

                                                  Just an idle thought...  Are there any PC emulation programs that provide the ability to run Windows on a PowerPC Mac?

                                                   

                                                  -Noel