15 Replies Latest reply on Sep 20, 2010 6:22 PM by Cowboy22

    Timecode and mulit-camera shoot

    Cowboy22 Level 1

      I am new to Premiere Pro CS5. I want to do a two camera shoot and I thought the timecode would allow to sync both cameras. But it appears that the clip shows beginning at zero and does not actually show time or date. So if cameras were started at different times this is of no value for sync. I am going to do a two camera shoot at our church for a concert of piano and organ. One would be wide shots and the other closeups.

       

      Would I have to start both cameras at the same time and let them run for the entire concert in order to be able to sync?

       

      Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

        • 1. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
          Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I am new to Premiere Pro CS5. I want to do a two camera shoot and I thought the timecode would allow to sync both cameras. But it appears that the clip shows beginning at zero and does not actually show time or date.

          You can get that code for the first clip for each camera and place a marker in that clip.  But the better way is to use an external event (sound or visual) and use that as the mark.  Then you line the markers up in the multicam source sequence.

           

          Would I have to start both cameras at the same time and let them run for the entire concert in order to be able to sync?


          Is it even truly possible to start both cameras at the exact instance?  The easiest way is to run both cameras throughout the event, and to sync once.  Every time either camera stops, you must sync again.

          • 2. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
            Stephen Pickering122 Level 1

            I agree the easiest way would be to start both approximately the same time and have either a clap or flash, etc to visually/audibly sync to.  Keep both cams running the entire time and you will only need to sync once.  Keep in mind it should be fairly easy to sync just by looking at the waveform as you should see the piano chords pretty easily.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Stephen

            • 3. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
              Cowboy22 Level 1

              Thanks to both of you for your feedback

              and insight. Looks to me like running both

              cameras constant is the way to go.


              • 4. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                shooternz Level 6

                Absolutely run both cameras for the entire duratiuon of the event (performance piece)

                 

                If the cameras have the facility, you maybe able to run (set ) Free Run TC.

                 

                Set up both cameras as Free Run with the Time set virtually matching.  ie the same time  Any small  difference is the "off set" and that is easy to deal with in the edit.

                 

                Another tip that may be helpful.:

                 

                In PPRO you can apply what ever TC you want to any clip.  Paste TC

                 

                This enables you to set up all clips with exact same start time code once you establish your "offset"

                • 5. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                  Cowboy22 Level 1

                  Great. I appreciate your information. That will be very helpful.


                  • 6. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                    shooternz Level 6

                    Have you thought about how/where  you are going to record your audio yet?

                    • 7. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                      Cowboy22 Level 1

                      Yes, I ordered a Zoom H4n and I plan to add two external microphones and record 4 channel. I would apppreciate any suggestions as to what microphones to use. This way I should be able to get good audio and bring it in as an external audio tract to Premiere Pro. Since I have no experience in recording I would appreciate any suggestions. Should I use a stereo mic or should I use two mics, left and right.

                      The piano and organ will be about 20 feet apart on the stage. Placement of the mics is a concern.

                       

                      Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated as I have no idea at this point as to which way is best.

                      This is something I am doing at my expense and need to keep it within reason. What I hope to do is produce a dvd and also a cd with the music. Our pianoist and organist are fantastic and play off each other. They make some great music and It would be a great fund raiser for the new vans they need at the church.

                       

                      Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This is all new to me.

                      • 8. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                        shooternz Level 6

                        I am no sound engineer and try to stay as far away as possible from recording (or mixing it)

                         

                        but...

                         

                        I would place the recorder (and/ or the external mics) some where 1/3rd back from the front and centre in the audience and maybe 8 feet up in the air on a stand.  ie above the listening position.

                         

                        I would probably use the device in simple stereo mode.

                         

                        I would probably use crossed mics.

                         

                        I would definitely do a test before the event!  Levels etc....

                         

                         

                        I have the same Zoom device as you in front of me.  It is on loan to me from a colleague and I am using it tomorrow to record a lecture.  Its a simple device to use.

                         

                        Editing : Now you have to deal with this as another source to synchronise.  Make sure one or both the cameras are recording reference audio. They will help you get synch.

                         

                        Note: You can paste TC to an audio clip as well

                         

                        I would paste TC to the audio first.then I would sort the synch to each  video clip and paste same TC as the audio to each video clip.  Then you have everythink lined up and referenced to each other.

                         

                        Its simpler than it sounds.

                         

                        BTW:  This may help you.  http://www.sounddevices.com/products/waveagent.htm

                         

                        It is designed to locate the start TC of audio in a wave file.

                        • 9. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                          Stephen Pickering122 Level 1

                          That's a great idea for a church fundraiser!

                           

                          For everyone mentioning adding timecode to the clips:  Why would you do this?  I'm honestly curious because I've always just synched all the clips on a timeline and dropped them into a multi-cam timeline to edit.  I'm always looking to improve my workflow and if there's an advantage of adding the timecode I would love to try it.  Unless I'm talking about something completely different- in that case just ignore me...

                          Thanks,

                          -Stephen

                          • 10. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                            shooternz Level 6

                            There are many ways to synch multi streams of video and audio.

                             

                            One of the simple ways for those with AMCams or no ability to jam synch or set free run TC is to paste TC to each clip ( audio and video)

                             

                            This gives an exact  frame for frame reference across alll clips.  ( ie all clips line up so you know exactly that events on multiple cameras occur at exactly the same time)

                             

                            You can even set the Timeline to have the same TC.

                            • 11. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                              Missteach Level 1

                              You definitely made the right choice with the H4n - it's what I use.  Pair it up with a Rode NT4 stereo mic and you get 4 tracks of sonic perfection.

                              If recording in a church, be careful of natural reverberation.  Place mics close to the sources and you get a nice balance of ambience and dry source sound.

                               

                              In terms of syncing visually, again be prepared for the large reverberant ambience of a church because if you are using a visual cue to line up both cameras the attack portion of the your visual cue (a clap for example) can get swamped in reverb.  What I tend to do is walk in front the site of both cameras whilst they're running and snap a clothes peg together.  This gives a quick click and allows me to line up multi cameraS.

                               

                              Good luck

                              • 12. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                                Cowboy22 Level 1

                                I really appreciate your help. BTW, what do mean by crossed mics? As you can see

                                I am new at this.

                                 

                                The wave agent look like a great tool. It says it work with all series 7 recording devices, I assume that includes the Zoom?

                                • 13. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                                  Cowboy22 Level 1

                                  Thank you. I was not clear on which type of mic to purchase.


                                  • 15. Re: Timecode and mulit-camera shoot
                                    Cowboy22 Level 1

                                    Would the Rode NT4 or NT5 be the best solution? The Zoom will record with crossed mic's and I wondered if it would be best to use a matched pair ( Rode NT4) about 3 feet apart to get a wider spectrim?

                                    Or would you just stick with the NT4?