22 Replies Latest reply on Mar 20, 2008 1:08 PM by Heyitzmee

    Fireworks CS3 slow startup

    Nigel_Hodgetts
      Hi folks,

      I installed CS3 Web Premium last week. Not had chance to play with it a lot as yet but I have come across one irritation already: When I launch Fireworks CS3 it takes between 10 and 20 seconds from the program loading on screen to being able to either open a file or create a new file. Clicking anywhere (e.g. menus) while waiting gives a 'Not Responding' error message in the window title bar.

      I was wondering if anyone else has had these problems or knows how I might improve the startup responsiveness.

      I'm running CS3 under Windows XP with all patches installed on a Dell Precision 390 workstation with 4GB RAM.

      Thanks in advance,
      Nigel Hodgetts
        • 1. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
          Level 7
          Nigel Hodgetts wrote:
          > Hi folks,
          >
          > I installed CS3 Web Premium last week. Not had chance to play with it a lot as
          > yet but I have come across one irritation already: When I launch Fireworks CS3
          > it takes between 10 and 20 seconds from the program loading on screen to being
          > able to either open a file or create a new file. Clicking anywhere (e.g. menus)
          > while waiting gives a 'Not Responding' error message in the window title bar.
          >
          > I was wondering if anyone else has had these problems or knows how I might
          > improve the startup responsiveness.
          >
          > I'm running CS3 under Windows XP with all patches installed on a Dell
          > Precision 390 workstation with 4GB RAM.

          What kind of processor and hard drive does that machine have?

          --
          Stéphane Bergeron
          reach : connect : communicate
          http://www.webfocusdesign.com
          blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
          http://www.pixelyzed.com
          • 2. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
            csteed Level 1
            I am having the same problem. I have a new Core 2 Duo PC with 2G RAM and running Vista Home Premium, so I have the processing power to run FW at a decent rate. FW2004 ran okay and my recent update to FW CS3 has shown a few glitches, one of which is the very slow startup. It even makes my hard drive make strange noises as it seems to be searching for and loading the program?

            There is also the 'conflict' between FW CS3 and Vista's aero colour scheme (the only CS3 product that does this) and I found another posting that suggests you right-clcik on your FW icon go to Properties/Compatibility and make it XP compatible.

            Seem to be a few issues here and hope Adobe sorts them out as I use FW quite a bit.

            Chris
            • 3. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
              Nigel_Hodgetts Level 1
              Hi Stéphane,

              My workstation has an Intel Core 2 6600 2.40 GHz processor and a Western Digital 160GB (7,200 rpm) Serial ATA II Hard Drive with NCQ.

              Should be more than sufficient to run CS3, no?

              Nigel
              • 4. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                Level 7
                Nigel Hodgetts wrote:
                > Hi St?phane,
                >
                > My workstation has an Intel Core 2 6600 2.40 GHz processor and a Western
                > Digital 160GB (7,200 rpm) Serial ATA II Hard Drive with NCQ.
                >
                > Should be more than sufficient to run CS3, no?

                Definitely more than enough. Fireworks CS3 ran adequately even on my
                former machine which was an AMD Athlon 1 Ghz with 1GB or Ram (top of the
                line in early 2001). It now screams on my new machines which is an AMD
                Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5200+ (about 2.8GHz) with a 250 GB Seagate
                Barracuda 7200 RPM SATA hard drive with NCQ. I have 4 GB of Ram as well
                but my system runs under Vista 64 Ultimate, not XP.

                I was asking because there are several potential bottlenecks that can
                affect graphic applications' performance. I was asking about the basiscs

                Now, could you tell us what anti virus software are you running and how
                many fonts are installed in your Windows System fonts folder? Also, what
                is your graphics card and are your drivers up to date.

                Cheers!

                --
                Stéphane Bergeron
                reach : connect : communicate
                http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                http://www.pixelyzed.com
                • 5. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                  Level 7
                  Do you have to rub it in?

                  :)

                  Stéphane Bergeron wrote:
                  It now screams on my new machines which is an AMD
                  > Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5200+ (about 2.8GHz) with a 250 GB Seagate
                  > Barracuda 7200 RPM SATA hard drive with NCQ. I have 4 GB of Ram as well
                  > but my system runs under Vista 64 Ultimate, not XP.
                  • 6. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                    Level 7
                    Alex Mariño wrote:
                    > Do you have to rub it in?
                    >
                    > :)

                    Oh yes... every chance I get ;-)

                    --
                    Stéphane Bergeron
                    reach : connect : communicate
                    http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                    blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                    http://www.pixelyzed.com
                    • 7. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                      Nigel_Hodgetts Level 1
                      "Now, could you tell us what anti virus software are you running and how
                      many fonts are installed in your Windows System fonts folder? Also, what
                      is your graphics card and are your drivers up to date."

                      McCaffee VirusScan Enterprise.
                      699 fonts
                      NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285 graphics card with latest drivers

                      Regards,
                      Nigel
                      • 8. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                        Level 7
                        Nigel Hodgetts wrote:
                        > McCaffee VirusScan Enterprise.
                        > 699 fonts

                        Ok... that's 2 strikes against you right there... ;-) The only thing
                        worse is if you had Norton Antivirus but I guess they're both about
                        equally crappy (seriously).

                        First thing I would try would be to exclude the entire Fireworks
                        application folder from VirusScan's real time check and same for its
                        application data folder in Documents and Settings. Ideally, I would
                        ditch Mcaffee and get a good antivirus like AVG or NOD32. Both are very
                        light on resources and will not slow down your system. AVG has a free
                        version but NOD32 is about the best antivirus money can buy (it's not
                        that expensive). I've been running it for over a year now and it's the
                        best I tried. I needed the lightest resources hungry AV possible as I'm
                        a musician and run resources intensive software that needs to work well
                        in real time.

                        In your case, the number of fonts is probably a greater cause of your
                        slow FW startup time than McAffee. You really should invest in good font
                        management software. There are free solutions you can look up on Google
                        but the one I prefer is Extensis Suitcase (version 11 came out
                        recently). A cheaper and very good alternative is FontExpert from
                        Proxima Software which had a new version release recently.

                        Ideally, you should never keep no more than about 50-100 fonts directly
                        installed in your Windows font folder and should activate and deactivate
                        fonts on a "as needed" basis using font management software. More than
                        about 300 installed fonts (less on some machines) will definitely slow
                        down your graphic apps startup time and Fireworks is especially
                        sensitive to that. I manage over 5000 fonts (yes, that's 5 thousand)
                        with Suitcase but I never have more than about 75-100 fonts
                        installed/activated at once.

                        Some font management software also come with plugins for certain apps
                        that will automatically find and load missing fonts when opening a
                        document. Unfortunately, none come with one for Fireworks AFAIK but
                        FontExpert has one for Illustrator and Suitcase as plugins for both
                        Illustrator and InDesign. Both companies say they'll probably produce
                        more so, if your purchase either, enter official feature requests for
                        missing font loader plugins for Fireworks.

                        Suitcase has the best font matching algorithm and goes a lot deeper than
                        just the font name to find a match which is very important for text
                        heavy layouts in apps like Illustrator and InDesign (which I both use
                        regularly as well) because minute differences in hinting/kerning can
                        cause unwanted text reflows if you load the wrong version of a given font.

                        In any case, you should see significant load time improvements if you
                        dramatically reduce the number of fonts you have installed in your
                        windows/fonts folder and getting more efficient Antivirus software will
                        help your entire system's performance.

                        HTH!

                        --
                        Stéphane Bergeron
                        reach : connect : communicate
                        http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                        blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                        http://www.pixelyzed.com
                        • 9. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                          pixlor Level 4
                          I've been using NOD32 since 2004 and I've been extremely happy with it. According to one AV research report (there's a link on Eset's site), NOD32 hasn't missed an "in-the-wild" virus since 1998. Definitely something to research, For example, see www.av-comparatives.org/, click on Comparatives in the left-side menu.

                          [musing] As for fonts...I also have Vista. The OS comes with a large number of non-roman fonts which, as far as I've been able to find out, cannot be removed. Apparently, if they are deleted, the OS re-installs them. I've added MS Office 2007, Adobe Web Premium CS3 and maybe half a dozen other fonts, bringing my total to 526. It's a lengthy list, but the ones I really don't need or want, I can't get rid of. It's quite annoying, having to scroll past these unwanted fonts when looking for the one you want and not being able to do anything about them. [/musing]
                          • 10. Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                            Nigel_Hodgetts Level 1
                            Unfortunately I work in a large organisation with a corporate IT solution. I have no option over the anti-virus application nor the ability to change the settings on my PC. That said, I don't think either the AV or the fonts are the problem. I have no problems with any of the other applications in the CS3 Web Premium collection. Likewise, I have no problems running Fireworks MX.

                            Conclusion: There's something up with Fireworks CS3. Does anyone know whether FW CS3 is using the same online licence authentication that Studio MX used? That certainly caused problems in the past!
                            • 11. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                              Level 7
                              Nigel Hodgetts wrote:
                              > Conclusion: There's something up with Fireworks CS3. Does anyone know whether
                              > FW CS3 is using the same online licence authentication that Studio MX used?
                              > That certainly caused problems in the past!

                              I doubt the same authentication mechanism is used now as the installers
                              are very different.

                              There are so many variables that can cause an application to
                              malfunction, most often specific to one user's machine, I'd really
                              advise you to contact Adobe support directly as they would be in a much
                              better position than anyone here to help you.

                              I've pretty much exhausted all the possibilities I can think of that
                              could explain your problem. McAffee VirusScan is definitely a well known
                              resources hog but if other apps perform normally I don't know what else
                              to tell you. Like I said before, FW CS3 performed adequately (and even a
                              tad faster than FW 8) even on my old computer which doesn't have
                              anywhere near the hardware power of your machine. Hopefully, Adobe will
                              be able to help you isolate the issue.

                              Good luck!

                              --
                              Stéphane Bergeron
                              reach : connect : communicate
                              http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                              blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                              http://www.pixelyzed.com
                              • 12. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                Level 7
                                Maybe contacting the inhouse IT team will help?

                                On a network they should be able to isolate what (if any) service is
                                hogging resources and may be able to invoke formal channels to Adobe
                                support regarding the issue?

                                If so, it is a good idea to post back and share resolutions if that is
                                possible.


                                Nigel Hodgetts wrote:
                                > Unfortunately I work in a large organisation with a corporate IT solution. I
                                > have no option over the anti-virus solution nor the ability to change the
                                > settings on my PC. That said, I don't think either the AV or the fonts are the
                                > problem. I have no problems with any of the other applications in the CS3 Web
                                > Premium collection. Likewise, I have no problems running Fireworks MX.
                                >
                                > Conclusion: There's something up with Fireworks CS3. Does anyone know whether
                                > FW CS3 is using the same online licence authentication that Studio MX used?
                                > That certainly caused problems in the past!
                                >
                                • 13. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                  Nigel_Hodgetts Level 1
                                  Quick update:

                                  I've been in touch with Adobe support and they suggested running Windows in simplified mode to see whether that made a difference. It did. Fireworks didn't work at all because the 'license manager' had been disabled.

                                  If I get any joy I'll post the results here.
                                  • 14. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                    Nigel_Hodgetts Level 1
                                    I've used MSCONFIG to track down which service is causing the problem. It is the Network Associates McShield Service. If that service is disabled FW runs perfectly. I have McCafee VirusScan Enterprise 8.0i installed on my workstation.

                                    I have excluded the folder C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Fireworks CS3\ through the on-access scan console but this hasn't made any difference. Any suggestions for other folders that should be excluded from the scan?
                                    • 15. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                      Level 7
                                      Nigel Hodgetts wrote:
                                      > I have excluded the folder C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Fireworks CS3\ through
                                      > the on-access scan console but this hasn't made any difference. Any suggestions
                                      > for other folders that should be excluded from the scan?

                                      No. As I said earlier in the thread (and I was and still am serious) the
                                      only sensible solution is to completely remove McAffee from your
                                      systemand install an actually decent antivirus... really. McAffeee and
                                      Norton are probably the two worst AV out there both in terms of actual
                                      virii detection and removal but also in terms of resources usage and
                                      system slowdowns.

                                      You would be much better off overall with AVG which has a free version
                                      or with NOD32 which is the one I settled on a couple years ago after
                                      having tried several AV packages and researched the issue thoroughly.
                                      NOD32 has an even smaller resources footprint than AVG and is probably
                                      the best AV out there for catching and removing virii, even 0 day threats:

                                      http://free.grisoft.com/ (AVG)

                                      http://www.eset.com (NOD32)

                                      Either one will not only let your system run faster but will also
                                      protect it a lot better.

                                      --
                                      Stéphane Bergeron
                                      reach : connect : communicate
                                      http://www.webfocusdesign.com
                                      blog : tutorials : articles : gallery
                                      http://www.pixelyzed.com
                                      • 16. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                        Nigel_Hodgetts Level 1
                                        Steph,

                                        I'm on a large corporate LAN of in excess of 2,500 PCs. I have no control of our corporate AV solution. I cannot remove McCafee even if I wanted to. I need to make FW work with McCafee - the way ALL of my other programs do.

                                        The problem is with Fireworks, NOT McCafee.
                                        • 17. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                          ianhg
                                          Hi Nigel,
                                          I have had problems with Fireworks and Vista this thread might help you although still not resolved.
                                          http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?forumid=14&catid=193&threadid =1259318&enterthread=y
                                          Good luck in search for a solution try accessing thro Bridge if you have it.
                                          Ian
                                          • 18. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                            ejwn Level 1
                                            I'm having exactly the same issue, with Fireworks being the only program that decides to "Not respond" for 10 to 20 seconds. Nigel have you (or has anyone else) found a workaround for this issue yet?

                                            Many thanks
                                            • 19. Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                              garylund
                                              I have the same issue on a fast Core2 Duo, 2-gigs of ram, NVIDIA, runing XP Pro. While I do have a large number of fonts installed, and I do run McAfee VS, none of the other CS applications exert this behavior on startup.
                                              • 20. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                                wfarer
                                                Hi all,

                                                I believe I have found a possible solution for some folks.

                                                Some antivirus programs are set to scan everything by default, which means just excluding the Fireworks executable or directory has little effect because Fireworks loads its startup configuration in the user directory such as

                                                C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Fireworks CS3

                                                So the system will "hang" for 10-20 seconds while the antivirus scans all the stuff in the directory that is being loaded by Fireworks.

                                                Therefore if you can exclude the above directory and subdirectories from being scanned by the antivirus, Fireworks would be be zippy again.

                                                • 21. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                                  ejwn Level 1
                                                  Hi wfarer,

                                                  Just gave it a try and unfortunately in my case it made no difference. I also tried disabling the antivirus software completely to no avail. I hope your suggestion helps others though!
                                                  • 22. Re: Fireworks CS3 slow startup
                                                    Heyitzmee
                                                    If you can upgrade your Ram memory it will work fast for sure :)