11 Replies Latest reply: Jan 21, 2011 9:02 AM by Tiny Dantz RSS

    Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)

    Pyramid Pyro Community Member

       

      I’m getting ready to burn my first BluRay discs.  I’m pretty comfortable with DVD workflows but I wanted to get as much info as possible before making BluRay coasters   Can anyone confirm or correct me on the following based on a workflow of HDV > Edit In PPro CS5 > Dynamic Link to Encore for authoring/encoding BD-R with no real fancy tricks, odd files, or workarounds in the PPro sequences?

       

       

       

      • MP2 transcodes faster than H.264
      • H.264 looks better than MP2 at lower bit rates
      • H.264 is comparable to MP2 at higher/constant bit rates
      • MP2 is generally more compatible with set top players than H.264
      • Max bit rate should not exceed 25 Mbps for BD-R compatibility with most set top players
      • One should try to create an IMG or BD-R folder before burning a disc to test and not waste discs
      • Max Render Quality is only good for scaling (HD > SD for example)
      • Max Bit Depth is only good when using assets with high bit depth (not so much for HDV, general Photoshop/image files, etc)
      • 2-Pass VBR will yield better results than CBR (improved image/lower file size) – I’m not sure about this one
      • Never use Render Files (media cache) for transcoding – I’m not sure about this one
      • When using a dedicated drive for PPro media cache, place Encore files on that drive as Encore won’t use those files (when using a separate drive for OS, Project, source files, page file)
      • Dynamic Link can take a long time to load
      • Encore chapter markers set in PPro sequences will be retained even after embedding sequences in other sequences – I’m not sure about this one
      • Sometimes the "automatic" setting for transcodes is all you need....

       

       

       

      I've exported a handful of tests using some of these concepts but would like some confirmation before I dive into real projects.  Some of these are probably subjective so I do appreciate input from your experience.

       

      Any other tips or suggestions?

       


      Thanks for the taking the time to look this over,

       

       

       

      Erik

        • 1. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
          Jon Geddes Community Member

          The first eight points you made are pretty accurate.

           

          As for the ninth point you made about VBR Encoding, that is not entirely accurate. If you encode your video at 25 Mbit CBR, it will not look any worse than a video encoded at 25 Mbit Max VBR 2-pass.

           

          What VBR 2-pass will allow you to do is have a better quality-to-space ratio than CBR. VBR 2-pass will produce a smaller sized file while maintaining the same quality as the CBR. This can allow you to spend less time burning the final disc, save money on backing up all your images, and even allow you to squeeze more content on a single disc while maintaining the same quality.

           

          I also like to set my VBR Max bitrate higher than I would normally set my CBR bitrate, giving me extra quality on those high detailed frames. So you can set the target bitrate to those normal high values, such as 7 Mbit (DVD) and 22 Mbit (Blu-ray), and then set your max bitrate slightly higher to 8 Mbit (DVD) and 25 Mbit (Blu-ray). Doing this will keep the average bitrate around the target, but allow the encoder to use up to the max on those highly detailed scenes.

           

          Moving on to the next point about never using render files (media cache) for transcoding... not quite sure what you mean by that.

           

          Your next point about a dedicated drive probably only applies to a specific workflow (using the dynamic link from PPro to Encore), which I avoid anyways.

           

          About the Dynamic Link taking long, I don't use the dynamic link from PPro to Encore for many reasons, but I can imagine it might take a while.

           

          I never tried embedding encore chapter markers in nested sequences, not sure why you would even need to try.

           

          Automatic is not the best for everyone's needs, but for some people, it is probably the easiest. My company provides professional authoring services and we never use automatic.

           

          Hopefully this information was helpful.

          • 2. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
            Jarr1976 Community Member

            I asked this in another thread but maybe it would be better here:

             

             

            Which is faster to render out a project in Encore that I have the timelines dynamically linked to from Premiere--

             

            Is it better to let Encore do the rendering/transcoding for SD/HD projects or use AME (via Encore settings) to render via Encore and then select burn project?

             

            Thanks.

             

            Jared

            • 3. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
              Jon Geddes Community Member

              Jared,

               

              You asked two separate questions... which is faster, and which is better.

               

              It is faster to load into Encore via Dynamic Link, assuming you don't encounter any of it's occasional problems with audio drop out our video glitches.

               

              It is better to encode a DVD/Blu-ray ready file out of Premiere, so that you know you have a file without errors, and that does not have to be transcoded again if there are problems during the authoring process.

               

              I personally always like to have Encore perform the least amount of work as possible. This includes not using it for transcoding or joining of multiple clips on a single timeline. I have found that doing this makes the authoring process go much faster (as transcoding has already been performed), and without errors or bugs during the build process.

              • 4. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                QuantumJam

                I do my HD authoring in Premiere and transcoding then down convert for clients in encore.  I have very few problem if any with good results.  I basically do the same thing.  I am just replying to one of the post.  I agree the less in Encore the better.  I made it tumble with a AE file trying to animate my buttons.  I should of flattened the Menu before adding the buttons.  The next one I will it all boils back to what your saying have Encore deal with as little as possible.  I could not agree more and wish I could get my time back putting that composition together. 

                 

                PhotoJAM & Video

                Freelance Services

                (614) 419-8090

                jimindelaware@hotmail.com

                • 5. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                  Jarr1976 Community Member

                  Jon,

                   

                  Thanks for the great reply--and yes, I did mean to ask two questions.  haha

                   

                  I have encountered some video glitches (with having Encore handle the video transcoding for SD dvd and Blu-ray files) which is why I wanted to know.

                   

                  So, if I do export (encode) the video files from Premiere, then how do I make a single project that cam be burned for both standard def dvds and HD Blu-ray for clients that order both formats without me having the create two Encore projects.

                   

                  With Dynamic Link I am able to export the two formats by creating one project.  Would your way require two Encore projects?

                   

                  What if I do Dynamic Link the files in Encore but then set Encore to have Adobe Media Encoder (rather than Encore) handle all of the encoding/transcoding--would that be the same thing as what you're talking about?

                   

                  Thanks!

                   

                  Jared

                  • 6. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                    Jon Geddes Community Member

                    I always create separate projects for Blu-ray and DVD. I know the programmers of Encore have included the seemingly efficient feature to output both DVD and Blu-ray from a single project, but the problem is with the downscaler that Encore uses for the SD content. It is absolute garbage. Obviously your HD menus and content will look excellent, however your SD menus will suffer from poor resolution, button highlights that are atrocious, and a main video that would have looked better had it been shot in SD to begin with. My attempts within Encore to enable Maximum Render Quality for motion menus has resulted in error messages during build, so I always create separate projects for SD DVD and Blu-ray, with assets that have been prepared outside of Encore for their respective format (separate SD and HD menus).

                     

                    I actually downscale my motion menus using a dynamic linked composition from After Effects. You can load your HD motion menu into an SD After Effects composition, scale it down, then load that comp into Encore via Dynamic Link without needing to render.

                     

                    Photoshop will do a much better job of scaling down your HD menu to SD resolution.

                    • 7. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                      Jarr1976 Community Member

                      Ok, thanks again.

                       

                      That's a total bummer because we end up churning out a lot of dual format content and it would be much more efficient if I could do both formates from within the same Encore project.  That's going to really slow things down if I have to create two separate projects.

                       

                      Are they going to fix/address the scaler issues in Encore?  I have CS5 and still have the problem even though in Premiere for the sequence setting and for the transcode setting in Encore I set them both to Maximum Render Quality.

                       

                      Jared

                      • 8. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                        Pyramid Pyro Community Member

                        Jon,

                         

                        Thanks so much for your insight.

                         

                        Point taken about CBR/VBR.

                         

                        I could have sworn there was a transcode setting for something along the lines of using preview files.  Maybe I misread that.

                         

                        The chapter markers in the PPro sequences is because most of my material consists of small clips strung together for the final timeline.  It's not important and can always be done in Ecore.

                         

                        Thanks again,

                         

                        Erik

                        • 9. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                          Tiny Dantz

                          Jon,

                           

                          Thanks for your responses in this thread, they are very helpful.  I wonder if you can follow up on this point about using a single project for both Blu-Ray and SD DVD.  Specifically:

                           

                          1) I have a screening DVD where I'm not concerned about the visual quality of the menu.  It's just text. But I do want a good encode.  Can you import both encodes (HD & SD) completed elsewhere, and have them link in Encore?  You've said this isn't a good idea because the menus look terrible, but is it possible?  If so, how?

                           

                          2) Has the scaling of menus gotten any better in CS5? 

                           

                          3) I have another more involved Blu-Ray project with multiple menus that I also need as a DVD.  If I really have to scale everything myself, is there a way to dupe the project and substitute the assets while maintaing chapter markers, button assignments, button orders, links, etc?

                           

                          Thanks so much for this and for your other helpful posts.

                          • 10. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                            Jon Geddes Community Member

                            Tiny,

                             

                            I'd be happy to address your questions:

                             

                            1) CS5 now has the ability to "Locate Transcoded File" so you can import a Blu-ray Asset for the Blu-ray Build, then load the pre-transcoded DVD asset for the DVD build without having Encore transcode the Blu-ray asset for you. Very useful.

                             

                            2) I have not tested the scaling in Encore CS5, but if it's anything like Premiere CS5 (which I'm sure it is), it has not gotten much better. The improved scaling quality in CS5 comes from using the Mercury Playback Engine which currently only accelerates Premiere projects, and not Encore.

                             

                            3) If you do it right, it might be possible to achieve this without problems, though I've ran into problems when duplicating projects in the past.

                             

                            First of all, you will likely start with the Blu-ray project first. After importing all the assets and setting up the entire project, you should save it before building for the first time. Use the Save As option.

                             

                            Now that you have a new project, you can delete all the menus and motion background assets. As for the timelines with chapter points, you can keep those and make sure you locate the transcoded DVD asset by right clicking on the HD asset in the project panel and select 'Locate Transcoded File > DVD'.

                             

                            Now you can import your scaled down SD menus and menu assets, and link everything up all over again.

                             

                            The only time saver was not having to place the chapter points on all the timelines, but everything else will have to be redone to maintain the highest quality.

                            • 11. Re: Summary Of Encore/Transcode Info (What I Learned On My Summer Break)
                              Tiny Dantz Community Member

                              So helpful.  Thanks.  Now I just have to get CS5 and try it out.