24 Replies Latest reply on Sep 20, 2010 4:49 PM by Todd_Kopriva

    CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon

    Gerard_Cerchio

      Hi,

       

      I am trying to migrate to windows 7/64 and have used the Nvidia video processors for many years. I am currently using a GTX 285 with Premier Pro CS5 and the realtime rendering works exactly as advertised, it is truly phenomenal to see my effects immediately.

       

      Unfortunately Nvidia has abandoned spanning the desktop accross two monitors, a feature that is built into ATI Radeon video cards. I would like to switch my displays over to a Radeon card and retain the Nvidia card in the system just for rendering.

       

      Will CS5 still recognize the Nvidia card and use it for rendering?

      Has any tried this configuration?

      Any hints on how best to go about this?

        • 1. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
          shooternz Level 6
          Unfortunately Nvidia has abandoned spanning the desktop accross two monitors

           

           

          Are you sure about that?

          • 2. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
            Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

            Straight from the proverbial horse's mouth:

             

            Re:horizontal spanning, again, Today, 01:55 PM



            ********

            Group: NVIDIA Technical Support
            Posts: 1,333
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            QUOTE
            Hi Manuel,

            Please answer this time. I am going to replace my entire system, because my mother board does not support SLI.

            I need to know from you exactly what cards in SLI configuration support horizontal spanning under windows 7.

            I do not need brands, just the gpu's

            Please answer

            Gerard


            There  is no horizontal span support for any of our graphics cards under  Windows 7, either Quadro or Geforce.  We do have a feature called NVIDIA  Surround which is like Horizontal Span but requires 3 monitors.  It  will not work across two monitors only.  Also, all three monitors are  required to run at the same screen resolution, refresh rate and sync  polarity. 

            Since you are building a new system, any of the 400  series supports GPUs will support 2D NVIDIA Surround.  For more  information, you can visit the system requirements page at:

            http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dv-system-re...technology.html

            Horizontal Span is only supported at this time under Windows XP.


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            • 3. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
              James Hooey

              I run a GTX285 and currently have my desktop (particularly my desktop background) spanned over my two monitors, running Vista 64.  As for how I work in Premiere for example I generally have my preview/playback full sized on one, with all the UI on the other...is this what you were hoping to do?

              • 4. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                Hello James,

                 

                I am am sorry, but you do not understand the phrase "horizontal spanning". To witt:

                 

                1. Your task bar is only on one screen
                2. any "full screen" direct X application only occupies one screen
                3. when you maximize media player, it occupies one screen
                4. when you run a direct X application that has a window width wider than a single screen, anything over a single screen's width appears black
                5. Your single desktop background image is duplicated on your two screens, not stretched accross both screens, unless you use a 3rd party app

                 

                Horizontal spanning means that Windows 7 sees my two 30" displays as a single display that is 5,120 pixels by 1,600 pixels. All DirectX applications think this is so and apply themselves across both screens as if it was a single screen, just as any other application does. When I VNC to my two screen iMac I see the entire Mac display on my desktop, not just the single monitor's width worth of the display.

                 

                This is a feature that Nvidia introduced years ago and ATI later did a "me too". Nvidia has stoped supporting the feature and ATI has touted it now for the past year on Windows 7 and before that on Vista. If you worked with X on multiple display systems during the 80's you would understand how preposterous it is to have the OS limit the real estate of your applications.

                • 5. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                  James Hooey Level 1

                  Gerard,

                  I'm sure you are right and I am overlooking something...but please see below....  this is a screenshot of my desktop, with IE spanned across both screens, the desktop image spanned, and my desktop icons on seperate monitors....it's probably not what you are talking about but it was my thoughts on a spanned monitor (set up as a dual monitor within the Nvidia settings)....

                   

                  again I'm sure there is a difference from what you are speaking to....but I'm not sure I understand how/why this is a functional difference?  The only difference I can think of is that I would have to manually drag my application windows to fill the two screens rather than simply maximize them.

                   

                  desktop screenshot.jpg

                  • 6. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                    Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                    James,

                     

                    Please look at your task bar, it only extends to 1/2 of your desktop. I don't think you even paid any attention to rest of my reply to your post.

                     

                    Oh well, if you only believe in screen shots here are screen shots.

                     

                    Screen shot 1, my VNC connection to my iMac using windows XP with horizontal spanning:

                     

                    desk xpl.jpg

                    Notice: the task bar extends the full width of the desktop, the start button is on the far left, the time is on the FAR right. The application (Ultra VNC) displays all the information on the the two screens of my 2 screen iMac.

                     

                    Screen Shot 2 my VNC connection to my iMac using Windows 7 64 bit without horizontal spanning:

                     

                    Corel.jpg

                    Notice, like your screen shot, the task bar stops halfway through the desktop, this is unacceptable. Also notice that the DirectX application's widow is black past the 2560 pixels that is the width of a single screen, this too is unacceptable.

                     

                    Now do you understand the thing(s) that you have overlooked?

                     

                    P.S. I would be very wary using IE, the most malware targeted browser available today

                    • 7. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                      shooternz Level 6

                      I also did not fully understand "Horizontal Spanning"

                       

                      Why exactly do you want the capability to stretch a Task Bar across 2 Monitors?

                       

                      Seems to be a recipe for RSI.

                      • 8. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                        Baz R Level 3

                        Hi,

                         

                        Matrox do a product, it may do what you are looking for.

                         

                        http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/gxm/dh2go/

                         

                         

                        Baz

                        • 10. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                          Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                          Mr. Nz,

                           

                          RSI? I have no idea what you are refering to.

                           

                          However you miss the point, look at the application that is running. The application window should contain the identical data between the XP and Win 7 systems. It is a directx remote desktop viewer of an iMac running OSX. Look carefully and you will see all pixels past the X=2560 are black on the Win 7/64. This is because using a Nvdia driver on Win 7 limits all directx applications to the size of a single monitor. This limitation is not found in Nvidia drivers on XP and not in ATI drivers on either XP or Win 7.

                          • 11. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                            Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                            Baz,

                             

                            Not enough resolution, I need 2 2560x1600 screens. Frankly it is a hardware hack to make up for driver deficiencies. It apparently reports to the video  card that the two screens are a single screen at twice the width and the same height. Due to the DVI limitations it would require two input ports to provide the 5120x1600 resolution.

                            • 12. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                              Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                              Mr. Clark,

                               

                              More spot on is this one: http://forums.adobe.com/message/2990711#2990711

                               

                              However it is for Photoshop, not Premier. Premier uses the Mercury playback engine, so any solution there probably will not apply to Premier.

                              • 13. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                James Hooey Level 1

                                Gerard,

                                 

                                I certainly paid attention to your entire post...which is why I prefaced my second reply with my thoughts that you are certainly right and I was overlooking something....I was merely trying to give you my best advice and show you my example.

                                 

                                FWIW....RSI would likely mean Repetative Strain Injury (due to having a huge taskbar that you scroll back and forth over to do certain functions).

                                 

                                Good luck, hope you find a solution.

                                 

                                James

                                • 14. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                  si conehead Level 2

                                  Gerard,

                                   

                                  Perhaps I am missing something, but in your screenshots, I do not see the monitor's bezels (the frame around the display)?

                                   

                                  Am I missing something?

                                   

                                  Steve

                                  • 15. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                    Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                                    Steve,

                                     

                                    monitors' bezels? On a screen shot?

                                     

                                    Oh my, am I being played here?

                                    • 16. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                      si conehead Level 2

                                      Gerard,

                                       

                                      Your  sarcastic remark cleared up my stupidity.

                                       

                                      I think I need some sleep.

                                       

                                      Steve

                                      • 17. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                        Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                                        No Steve it is not sarcasm. The amount of effort that I have put into this forum to have the participants in this thread understand simple horizontal spanning, is frustrating. I put together X spanned desktop systems in the 1980's for various industrial and scientific applications. I put together my first windows spanned desktop on Windows 3.1 in the early 1990's. My development system had 4 VGA monitors, spanned on a desktop of 2,560x480. I don't have a picture of that handy, but here is an industrial control system I designed and implemented that prevents oil spills in New York harbor at a oil storage terminal:

                                        http://www.circlesoft.com/images/pansmain.jpg

                                        This is a single IBM AT class machine displaying in the order of 6,000 animated objects in real time.  It shows the direction of movement, type of product, pressure, and operating state of each pipe, valve, tank and pump in the installation. At the same time, it models the operator intended activity of the facility and produces alerts whenever a cluster of over 1,000 sensors report data that conflicts with the AI model. The desktop is spanned across all 8 monitors, windows thinks it has a 2,560x960 desktop. If each monitor had to addressed separately, as introduced in the latest and greatest Nvidia driver for  Windows 7, the 8086 processor in this system would not have the cycles to perform the work.

                                         

                                        So when, for the past year, I have not been able to use the latest Win 7 OS because of a built in deficiency in the Nvidia driver, I have become frustrated. It's as if a favored automobile manufacturer banished windshield wipers from all their lines of automobiles and no one seems to notice.I have been using Nvdia cards since the NV1 in the 1990's, now I can't even drive in the rain with my favorite make and model, I have to switch to ATI and relegate the Nvidia card to a co-processor, like the 8087 on that little AT, and I have some doubt even that will work with the mercury engine.

                                         

                                        Again, sorry if you thought I was being sarcastic, I was not. I am very, very frustrated.

                                        • 18. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                          Jeff Bellune Level 5

                                          You should probably take the fight directly to nVIDIA.  We can't help you with the driver issue.

                                           

                                          Looking back at your original question, and considering the effort you had to make just to get folks to understand what you wanted, you're probably going to have to be the guinea pig here and muck around until you discover the solution (if there is one) for yourself.

                                           

                                          Given that what you want is not common among users here, perhaps your car analogy should read something like this:

                                          It's as if a favored automobile manufacturer banished windshield wipers from my favorite exotic and expensive sports car and no one seems to notice.

                                          We didn't notice because most of us are driving the basic sedan that always sits at the far end of the lot.:-)  Our windshield wipers work just fine. ;-)

                                           

                                          -Jeff

                                          • 19. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                            Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                                            Jeff,

                                             

                                            I beg to differ, Nvidia has removed the windshield wipers even from your sedan, you just don't believe driving in the rain is all that important. I have many many posts on the Nvidia forums on this topic.

                                             

                                            Anyway, the whole point to my OP is to find out if anyone is running ATI displays and Nvidia CUDA at the same time. I am use to be on cutting edge, I am not ever giving up my exotic, expensive, car, home built aircraft, or intergalactic space vehicle.

                                             

                                            I shall experiment.

                                             

                                            http://www.circlesoft.com/images/aircraft.jpg

                                            • 20. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                              With the current Nvidia Driver, yes you can run both cards. The Nvidia driver allows you to select which card will handle the CUDA acceleration. You can also select it  on a program basis. Occasionally Premiere may get confused on which card it detects and may try to intialize the ATI card. Just shut Premiere down and restart the system. That seems to remedy it.

                                               

                                              Oh as a personal note. You might not want to ask for information and help and then respond with criticism or disrespect. I actually decided not to answer your question before due to your attitude and my guess is others did the same. Just to enlighten you alittle, Nvidia eliminated the Spanning because most people want the Independent mode with Win 7. One of the new features with Win 7 was the memory partitioning that is now handled by the OS due to Aero. This feature use to only be available with Quadro cards back in XP. This has increased video performance when dealing with 2D such as desktop and applications interfaces. This was not a step back or an oversite as you have suggested. This was purposeful since Spanning would be a step back.

                                               

                                              Eric

                                              ADK

                                              • 21. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                                Gerard_Cerchio Level 1

                                                Mr Bowen,

                                                 

                                                You are right, re-reading this thread, it is obvious that I am critical and disrespectful.

                                                 

                                                I am petitioning the moderator to remove the enitre thread from publication due to my abuse of the membership.

                                                 

                                                Apologies for giving offense to the all the thread's participants,

                                                 

                                                Gerard

                                                • 22. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                                  si conehead Level 2

                                                  Please do not delete this thread. I was not offended, I was only kidding.

                                                   

                                                  The thread should be kept because the subject matter is very interesting and Gerard's setup is unique.

                                                   

                                                  More people should know that this can be done.

                                                   

                                                  Steve

                                                  • 23. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                                    Jeff Bellune Level 5

                                                    Gerard,

                                                     

                                                    You'd have to do a lot worse than that to get a thread deleted. ;-)

                                                     

                                                    As Steve points out, there's a lot of useful information here.  So for the sake of future visitors it shall remain in place.

                                                     

                                                    -Jeff

                                                    • 24. Re: CS5 Rendering on a Nvidia GTX285 and Display on a Radeon
                                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                      > You'd have to do a lot worse than that to get a thread deleted. ;-)

                                                       

                                                      As Steve points out, there's a lot of useful information here.  So for the sake of future visitors it shall remain in place.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Agreed.

                                                       

                                                      Gerard, a statement like yours that acknowledges and apologizes for rudeness is a mark of civility. Thanks for that. We each can say rude things from time to time.