17 Replies Latest reply on Sep 20, 2010 8:02 AM by whereisthemanual

    I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions

    whereisthemanual

      Hey gang, I'm back. Haven't done much editing until today. Looks like I'm the new video editor for my inventor's group. And we are publishing our meetings as podcasts now.

       

      So here's the first question... I was not present for the most recent meeting and a small part of the audio has some horrible loud audio bangs in it. I am VERY good with audio editors, but don't see any means for editing out clicks and bangs in PRE8. Is this true?

       

      Stripping off the audio and editing it elsewhere would create a video sync mess, so that's no good.

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          For transients, I really like the Transient restoration tools in Adobe Audition. Nothing like that really exists in PrE (or PrPro), and the closest that one can come is to lower the Volume, or Gain, right at the Transient. Audition makes this basically a click-drag (to Select the Transient), and then one-click to Restore.

           

          As far as editing the Audio elsewhere and replacing it, there should not be any issues. I do this all of the time, and have never had a sync issue. Just Export/Share to PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit,  that portion of the Audio Track, with the Transients, and then edit, doing a Save to the same specs. Place that new WAV on another Audio Track, and align, if necessary (should not be, as the WAB will still be in the same spot in PrE, and then just Delete that original Audio segment. Works perfectly.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
            whereisthemanual Level 1

            Hey Bill,

            I'm sure you remember me from my initiation 5-6 months ago! You really helped me a lot.

             

            I COULD do as you say, and lower and restore the gain around a clunk, though that could be really tedious...but one problem....

            The resolution of the lower display is limited, and even though I have removed the tracks I don't need, the remaining track display doesn't expand to fill the bottom...Got a trick for that?

             

            Also, my PC display update doesn't track the audio very well, and it's hard to pick out the exact instant of the impulse when embedded in other audio. With my other audio editing tools I can pick out 1/2-wave pops and sylables of words and edit THEM, but in PRE8 the tracking in play is poor, and I can't always ID the offending pulse.

             

            SO,

            for a second question, do you know exactly what features in a PC really improve this? I am considering either building or buying a machine for SolidWorks, a 3D CAD progrm that requires massive computational and display horsepower. So I'm thinking quad-core, a ton of RAM, a fast SATA drive and a graphics accelerator, under Windows 7. Are there any specific functions in any of that are critically important?

             

            Get this, I just read a guy with a fairy fast machine took 3 DAYS to do a detailed photo-realistic rendering with SolidWorks! (a new one got it down to 6 hours)

             

            Thanks!

            • 3. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
              whereisthemanual Level 1

              A third question...I hit play and a lot of the time click it again and it takes a

              LONG time to stop...Any ideas how to deal with that?


              • 4. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                I do recall that initiation. Hope that the scars have healed...

                 

                OK, for the largest display of the Waveform, there are two things that might help. The first is to zoom in on the Timeline, via the horizontal zoom slider, above the Timeline. This will allow you to get to the Frame View, which is pretty large. Next, and this might require a bit of a "pixel hunt," is to vertically expand the Audio Track. In the Track Header area (to the far-left of the Audio Track), move the cursor around the upper margin of the Audio Track. When you hit the "hot spot," you will get a double line and then click drag to expand the vertical view of that Track.

                 

                Now, when you are playing the Timeline, and come to a Transient, tap the * key on the number pad (with NumLock ON), and you will place a Marker there, so you can go back to that spot.

                 

                I strongly agree that the riding of Gain, or Volume, is tedious, at best. That is one of the reasons that I like Audition to do this.

                 

                Here is a look at Audition, but I have shown two types of display, Spectral and Waveform. You can toggle between these, but I wanted to show each, so you can see the types of display that you can work with.

                Audition_Repair_Transient.png

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  .I hit play and a lot of the time click it again and it takes a LONG time to stop.

                  I have not detected any real lag on stopping with my laptop with PrE. I cannot think of what the reason for that delay could be.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    do you know exactly what features in a PC really improve this?

                     

                    For playback of both Audio and Video, the I/O sub-system, the HDD's and their controller, are the main bottlenecks. With AVCHD footage, the CPU moves to the "head of the class" as to the bottleneck, but with the Video footage.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                      whereisthemanual Level 1

                      Ah HA!

                      That finding the audio vertical hot-spot thing works GREAT!!!

                      How the heck did you discover THAT?


                      So with V+H expansion, I can see just fine.

                       

                      THANKS!

                      • 8. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Like I mentioned, it's a "pixel hunt." Even when I know about where it is, I still have to hover and move a bit, to lock onto it.

                         

                        Glad that it worked.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                          whereisthemanual Level 1

                          Hmmmmm the delayed stop is MY problem?

                           

                          That IS kinda weird. And it can be anything from 1/2 (usually more) to 1 second typically, and sometimes 20...that's right 20 seconds! That's unusual but it's like it gets stuck sometimes. Usually happens if I'm working fast, panning around or zooming in and out then hit play, maybe before it's done with the zoom. Really hangs me up. Then I have to pan again, back to where I was working.

                           

                          I HAVE discovered that making the video preview smaller does speed things up some, but rendering of the little video images below in the timeline always is slow when I pan around and that also is a pain. I have a hyperthreaded 2.4GHz P4 w/2GB of RAM. I am using this with XP Pro SP3, but just may have to spring for something faster for SolidWorks as I need to learn it.

                          • 10. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                            whereisthemanual Level 1

                            Just tried that fade out and in within a 1/2 second of the end of a track and it is just not workable.

                             

                            Since a pop or click is typically only a frame or two long, it would be nice to have a insert one frame of silence tool.

                            • 11. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Just in case it's a video display issue, let's do a test. In PrE, one can set the thumbnail display to None, First & Last and All, for the thumbnails (hope I am not confusing PrPro here). Set that thumbnail display to None (just the file names) and see if that lag at stop goes away. Just a thought.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Well, with the Timeline zoomed to Frame-level, one could do a Ctrl+K (Cut) on either side, and then Delete, but NOT close gap. However, that also takes out the ambient signal, as well, and that would be disconcerting to me. One "fix" for that would be to just Export/Share a tiny bit of the ambient Audio only, say 4 Frames worth. Then, stick that on another Audio Track to "cover" the silence.

                                 

                                How long is the Duration of your problem Audio piece? I do have an idea.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                                  whereisthemanual Level 1

                                  Hi Bill,

                                  I'm editing while I communicate, hence the broken comms...

                                   

                                  The damaged piece is only 20 seconds long. Someone had another mic open and banged it around so there are maybe 20 really loud random clicks.

                                  It's a pain, and while I like your ambient cut and patch idea (I'd have to unlink audio first, It's clear you've been here before!) I'm trying to keep this in perspective. It's a 1 hour plus podcast. 20 seconds of clackety-clack in the front is not worth a half hour of my unpaid time.

                                   

                                  So I may bag that effort (we'll see) and save my time for paying customers.

                                   

                                  But I will try your video test later, when I have some time. Good idea.

                                   

                                  Thanks

                                  • 14. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Before you can the idea, check your Personal Messages. A 20 sec. piece would take about 1 min. to fix in Audition. "You've got mail... "

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                                      whereisthemanual Level 1

                                      For anyone following this thread, an offline discussion lead me to resolve the problem of a noisy video clip, by the following:

                                       

                                      I abandoned the clip I had already edited and spliced in PRE8 (a couple minutes of needed-video from a 10 minute source clip), It was too much trouble to try and remove the clicks in PRE8, maybe impossible..

                                       

                                      I used CLEAR to get rid of the offending clip to leave a gap for the raw video

                                      I imported the video into the freeware program MPEG_StreamClip (this is real freeeware, no expiration or garbage SW loaded with it)

                                      I used its editor to rough-cut it down to ` 2-minute size and imported it into PRE8

                                      I unattached the audio track from the video in that clip and deleted the audio only, leaving the video

                                       

                                      Then back in MPEG_StreamClip, I disabled the video and saved only the audio as a (PCM) WAV file (same length as video in PRE8)

                                       

                                      I imported THAT WAV file into my audio editor program (an OLD copy of Cool-Edit) and replaced the clicks with a sample of the background noise (where I could) to preserve the character of the recording. In a couple cases I was stuck with removing the click and replacing with silence as the speaker was talking, so there were a couple glitches, but still, the result was WAY better than the clackety-clack in the source video.

                                       

                                      NOW, with the WAV file still exactly the same length as the video clip in PRE8, I imported the WAV into PRE8 and pasted it in-time with the audio-less clip, aligning the front-end to the video already there, with the inherent "snap" of the PRE8 program.

                                       

                                      Next I lock the audio to the video clip for final editing as combined media, and edit it as you would any other video.

                                       

                                      PHEW! This was a collaboration with Bill Hunt's suggestions, using my inventory of old and/or free, but very functional software.

                                       

                                      Cheers!

                                      • 16. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Don,

                                         

                                        Thank you for posting your workflow with the problem Audio files.

                                         

                                        Cool Edit was the precursor of Adobe Audition, and was a great program. Adobe has expanded its capabilities considerably, and is the one Audio editor that I most often recommend. I could not edit without it, but understand that not everyone has the need for another, relatively expensive program.

                                         

                                        One program, that might have given us a "leg-up" on the pops and clicks, is Magix Audio Cleaning Lab. It has a compliment of Presets, that do an amazing job with various noises. IIRC, it's about US$ 40, but I got my copy bundled with another Magix product, and almost did not install ACL. I only have it on my workstation, so did not test its capabilities, as I was working on the laptop by the pool. I still have your MP3 test file, and will run it through ACL, when I return to PHX, and report on how well it did, pretty much automatically. After exploring that program, I now will give it a go, with troublesome files, before I take those into Audition, for final tweaking. For general "cleaning," it still amazes me at how well it works. It stops far short of Audition, but can do a lot of the hand-work, to get one started.

                                         

                                        Good luck, and glad that the Project went well. Again, thanks for reporting your success.

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: I'm Baaaak... PRE 8 audio editing questions
                                          whereisthemanual Level 1

                                          I think its a good idea to summarize when possible. Its hard to follow a thread most of the time.

                                           

                                          Thanks for your help, Bill.

                                           

                                          All for now, I'm sure I'll be back again someday.

                                           

                                          And I will try your video test off-line, to try to ID the bottleneck.

                                           

                                          Cheers!

                                          Don