15 Replies Latest reply on Feb 2, 2011 3:29 AM by ExactImage

    Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip

    rowby Level 1

      Hello

       

      Master Collecition CS5


      I have a couple of webisides that I'm editing.

       

      Each actor had their own wirless lav microphone recording to an external audio system that recorded wav files.

       

      And the camera was also recording audio.

       

      We also had a clapboard that marked each scene. The camera and the external audio recording system all captured the clapboard information.

       

      I am replacing the camera audio with the wav tracks from each lav microphone.  For the most part when Actor "A" speaks I use Actor "A"''s lav wav. amd when Actor "B" talks I use Actor "B"''s wav file.

       

      The timeline is already fine tuned and I don't want to have to extend the beginning of each video clip on the timeline so that I can sync it with the clapboard.

       

      I've tried a number of tricks including a separate sequence just for syncing up sound.  But it doesn't seem really practical or time efficient.

       

      I was thinking that maybe I should be syncing up the clips in soundbooth.  I see that when I right-click on an audio trick I am given the option to "Edit in Soundbooth".

       

      Would incorporating Soundbooth into my work flow speed up the audio syncing.

       

      I hope I am being clear!

       

      Thanks


      Rowby

        • 1. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
          shooternz Level 6

          The trick is really in the preparatory work.

           

          ...but you say you have Time code for audio and video. Why cant you use it?

           

          We also had a clapboard that marked each scene. The camera and the external audio recording system all captured the clapboard information.
          • 2. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
            Rowby Goren Level 1

            Sorry I wasn't clear.

             

            I don't have time code on the audio from the external audio recorder. Just the audio wavs.

             

            I do have clapboard on all video and audio, including the external audio recorder.

             

            Rowby

            • 3. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
              shooternz Level 6

              So what you need to do is :

               

              Line up a clip and its related external audio via the Clapper.

               

              You will be able to see the TC in the video clip so "Paste" the same TC to the Audio clip.

               

              You now have a video and audio clip referenced to each other (although they are not linked)  You can group  them together in a separate sequence and use a cut and paste workflow.

               

              You could use a Ganged Program and Source Monitor type workflow.

               

              You could make intermediates of thew Video /Audio Clips

               

              If your video is edited ...you have a bit more work to do but the TC in the Audio clip will now be of assistance to you.

              Dble click the Video from the timeline . It will open in the source Monitor.

              Note the In and Out TC

              Use the same TC from your external audio source.

              • 4. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                Colin Brougham Level 6

                I personally wouldn't mess around with copying and pasting timecodes. Yes, that'll work, but it's going to take more time than is really necessary to accomplish what you need. This is how I'd do this, though note that it's going to require some manual effort, no matter what:

                 

                In your sequence, move the CTI to the in point of your clip's audio portion; make sure the track that that clip is on is targeted. Hit the M key, which will match frame the clip and load it into the Source Monitor. Don't double-click the sequence clip to load it; you need an independent reference (e.g. the original master clip) for "measurement" purposes.

                 

                In the source monitor, press O to mark an out point before you move the CTI. Now, move earlier in the clip until you get to the clapboard, and park the CTI on the frame where the "clap" happens. You could also toggle over to waveform view to make this easier (I've actually mapped Composite Video to F3 and Audio Waveform to F4 on my keyboard to make this a quick and easy toggle). Mark an in point (I key), and take note of the in-out duration in the lower-right corner of the source monitor; it's the white numbers. For this example, let's say those numbers read (for a 29.97fps clip) 00;00;05;00, or five seconds.

                 

                With that number in mind, load up the matching audio-only clip into the source monitor, and move the CTI to the "clap" which you should see pretty clearly in the waveform. Once the CTI is postioned, you need to move the CTI forward the number of frames/seconds that you noted above... minus one frame. So, on your numeric keypad, type a "plus" (+) and the digits 429, or 4 seconds 29 frames (obviously this will depend on your sequence/source frame rate; one second less one frame in a 23.976 timebase is 23 frames, etc.). Once the CTI is positioned, hit the I key to mark an in point, and then drag the audio to the sequence; hold the Alt key and drop it onto the audio portion of the clip you're replacing. This will map the original audio's in point to the replacement audio's in point, and maintain the duration of the original sequence clip.

                 

                The reason you need to go one frame less is because when you mark an out point on a clip, you're actually placing it at the "end" of the current frame you are viewing, not the "beginning." You can see this in action if you park the CTI at a given frame and mark both an in point and an out point without moving the CTI; you end up with a selection duration of 1 frame. As such, you need to offset this duration when backtiming and then applying the duration to the replacement clip. It'll make sense after you do it once.

                 

                I know that sounds like a lot, but I was just trying to be as detailed as possible. Hope it helps...

                • 5. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                  rowby Level 1

                  Hi Colin,

                   

                  Thanks for that detailed explanation!

                   

                  I will go through it and try it out.

                   

                  I'm half way through one of the two webisodes, so I'll try using your method with the rest of it.

                   

                  I'll update the forum with my progress


                  Rowby

                  • 6. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                    shooternz Level 6
                    I personally wouldn't mess around with copying and pasting timecodes. Yes, that'll work, but it's going to take more time than is really necessary to accomplish what you need.

                     

                     

                    Establishing and Pasting TC takes about 15-30 secs a clip.

                     

                    It becomes a permanent  synch reference (within the project) to any point in the Video or Audio clip.

                     

                    Doesnt seem too long a process to me  

                     

                    @ the OP : How many have you got to do?.

                     

                     

                    The use of WaveAgent can also be helpful in the process of establishing TC in an audio clip.

                     

                     

                    BTW : I had hopes that 5.2 was going to include audio TC .  Havent checked it yet to see if it does or doesnt.

                    • 7. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                       

                      Establishing and Pasting TC takes about 15-30 secs a clip.

                       

                      It becomes a permanent  synch reference (within the project) to any point in the Video or Audio clip.

                       

                       

                      Sure, but then he still has to do the replacements in the finished sequence (as we both outlined), so all in all, that would needlessly add to the amount of time to do this. I agree that timecode is king, and if this was done BEFORE editing, then what you're suggesting is the best, or at least most logical, course of action; however, since the edit is more or less done, the extra time to sync up timecode isn't worth the effort. When he does the Alt-Drag replacement, the "good" audio will become linked to the sequence clip, and will move around as necessary.

                       

                      BTW : I had hopes that 5.2 was going to include audio TC .  Havent checked it yet to see if it does or doesnt.

                       

                      Looks like BWF and audio timecode were added, though it's a little vague... hope it works for you though.

                      • 8. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                        Powered by Design Level 4

                        I want a new button called clapboard. 

                         

                        It doesn't have to be a button.

                         

                        just click it and it aligns it all up nice and easy.

                         

                         

                        GLenn

                        • 9. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                          rowby Level 1

                          That would be nice. Ideally It would sense the sound of the clapboard on a clip.  You could sample the clapboard and then let Premiere find it for you on the video and audio clip(s)

                           

                          However, so that Premiere doesn't date itself, it should probably be called "ClapPod"  

                           

                          Rowby

                           

                          >>>  Powered by Design: "I want a new button called clapboard. "  <<<<<

                          • 10. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                            UlfLaursen Level 2

                            How about the new pluraleyes for Premiere:

                             

                            http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html

                             

                            I have not tried it yet, but it should be quite good.

                             

                            /Ulf

                            • 11. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                              Powered by Design Level 4

                              I say Adobe buys Pluraleyes and brings it to CS6

                               

                              Thanks for the link.

                               

                               

                              GLenn

                              • 12. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                                shooternz Level 6
                                Looks like BWF and audio timecode were added, though it's a little vague... hope it works for you though.

                                 

                                 

                                Hi Colin

                                 

                                Confirming that audio waves now display TC in CS5.   eg. in the Source Monitor TC display panel.

                                 

                                This now makes Premiere totally workeable (and editor friendly)  when using external audio sources and of course makes synching so much easier..

                                 

                                I am well pleased.

                                 

                                In regard to the O.P

                                 

                                Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip


                                I guess we all agree that best practice is to shoot with a correct procedure  eg Timecode slates /clapper boards / free run timecode etc...and this makes synching...a breeze.

                                 

                                Maybe of interest how little synching audio and video has changed since the days of film rushes and sprocketted mag media.

                                • 13. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                                  PluralEyes doesn't work with 5.0.2 at the moment; the XMLs exported from Premiere are somehow malfunctioning in PluralEyes. Frankly, it didn't work that well before with 5.0.1, either. A buddy of mine who edits with FCP says the FCP/Mac version works quite well, so hopefully that will eventually come to the Premiere version.

                                  • 14. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                    Craig, that's great to hear. This will be useful on some upcoming projects.

                                    • 15. Re: Best practices/workflow in syncing multiple audio tracks to a clip
                                      ExactImage Level 3

                                      It's still not quite working for me in 5.0.3.   I've sent them files and they appear to be working on it - but things are coming back not quite sync'd.    The same sequence syncs perfectly if I take that XML file in to FCP, which is what I'm having to do right now.  Hoping they will get a handle on this soon.