15 Replies Latest reply on Sep 19, 2010 9:36 PM by Steve C2

    Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers

    Steve C2 Level 2

      I am considering reporting the following problem to Adobe, but does anyone here have thoughts on whether I am doing something wrong.  If this is a bug, is there a workaround, other than the obvious method of directly starting Encore from within PrPro?

       

      I have a project in PrPro CS5 with 3 Encore Chapter Markers.  When I invoke Encore from Premiere, all three markers appear in the timeline.  However, if I export to an AVI file, which in turn is added to an Encore project, only the first chapter marker is recognized.

       

      Thanks,

      Steve

        • 1. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          Chapter markers aren't saved in AVIs; CS3 was the last version to provide this. Instead, either use the Dynamic Link approach (as you've discovered) or export using MPEG-2 DVD as your format, with the preset or customizations that match your source sequence. When you import the resulting M2V file into Encore, the chapter marks will be read into the Encore timeline.

           

          Adobe giveth, and Adobe taketh away. You could make a feature request, but it's not a bug, unfortunately (or is that fortunately? Eh... semantics.).

          • 2. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
            Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Just FYI, in addition to Colin's info, the one marker that you think PR sent via AVI: that is the automatic chapter marker - PR didn't really keep that one from your sequence!

             

            Also, you get the chapters if you bring the PR sequence in from EN.  I say that because there has been some confusion about whether you are limited to one sequence in EN since you can only send from PR into a new EN project.

             

            I do think this whole area is worth a feature request: as powerful as the suite is, why on earth can't you export and import chapter lists from/to PR/EN?

            • 3. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
              Steve C2 Level 2

              Hi Colin and Stan,

               

              Thank you for your suggestions.  Any thoughts on the following...

               

              I discovered this "shortcoming" because I originally did the dynamic link to Encore and burned a draft DVD.  Upon further review (I hope I don't sound like an NFL referee), I realized that I needed to resync my audio and video - they were off by a couple of frames.  I felt that the easiest way to redo things was, once I resynced in PrPro, to create, as a transitional step, an uncompressed AVI file and replace the existing video in the Encore timeline with the revised video.  I used uncompressed AVI because I was concerned about having compression done twice - first by Premiere and then by Encore.  Wouldn't I be risking degraded video and/or audio by having double compression?

               

              Regardless of what I just explained, what is the best way to introduce revised footage into almost completed Encore projects?

               

              Thanks,

              Steve

              • 4. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                Averdahl Level 3

                Actually Encore Chapter Markers are saved in *all* avi files, no matter of the codec used, SD or HD. Ironically the application that shall use them dont recognize them and thats no good.

                 

                After Effects CS5 and Adobe Media Encoder CS5 see them and use them. Ie, importing the avi file into AME and encode it to MPEG2-DVD and import the .m2v file into Encore will give you your Encore Chapter Markers. Importing the avi file into After Effects CS5 and drop it into an Composition will reveal the Encore Chapter Markers in the avi file as well.

                 

                I have imported avi files exported from CS4 in the Lagarith codec and the Encore Chapter Markers are present in those files as well, but *not* in the application that they are intended to be used in and thats really odd.

                 

                I have filed an Feature Request about this and hope this will be fixed in an update or in next version of Encore.

                 

                /Roger

                • 5. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Roger, very interesting and certainly possible.  In some cases, the chapter information is not actually in the main files, but in XMPSES files, right?

                   

                  In any event, I agree with your feature request!

                   

                  Steve, when using dynamic link, just revert to original if you have transcoded, then select Edit -> Edit Original.  Then make your changes.  I do not know if you can do this after having made changes separately in PR, but I would try it rather than do a separate transcode.

                  • 6. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                    Averdahl Level 3

                    "Roger, very interesting and certainly possible.  In some cases, the chapter information is not actually in the main files, but in XMPSES files, right?"

                     

                    Yes, the .xmpses file contains the chapter markers for MPEG2-DVD files. For avi files they are embedded in the avi file.

                     

                    /Roger

                    • 7. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                      Steve C2 Level 2

                      Hi Roger and Stan,

                       

                      Thanks.  Would you (anyone else is welcome to contribute, too) know the answer to this?

                       

                      I am aware that one can still do the dynamic link invocation of Encore from Premiere after re-editing the clip.  But, if one takes this approach, does one risk destroying their Encore project?  The risk of this is why I chose not to take this approach.  What happens to one's Encore project if one were to do the dynamic link to an existing Encore project?   And what would happen if one had custom menus or had other assets that either came from other contributors or that were generated from outside of Premiere?  My guess is that one would probably have to start their Encore work all over, but hopefully someone can tell me that I'm wrong.

                       

                      A second question is - does it make sense for me to also make the feature request?  Does Adobe rely on the demand for a feature or does a Product Manager judge a request on its merits and other business considerations.

                       

                      Steve

                      • 8. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                        Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Still new with CS5: can you send from PR to an existing EN project?  I describe how to bring an edited PR sequence back in.  Will that not work for you?

                         

                        My experience has been that adobe pays close attention to feature requests.  And markers are still a moving target (pardon the pun).  I wonder if part of the issue is what adobe really controls in EN vs what is part of the sonic core.  Absolutely file a feature request.

                        • 9. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          I am aware that one can still do the dynamic link invocation of Encore from Premiere after re-editing the clip.

                          You don't have to "do" anything when you send a Premiere Pro sequence to Encore via Dynamic Link; it's basically a live connection that is active at all times. When you make a change in Premiere, that change is immediately reflected in Encore (assuming, of course, that you haven't already transcoded the DL'ed sequence). You can set up a Dynamic Link either by sending a Premiere sequence to Encore, or by linking to a Premiere sequence from Encore; the end result is the same.

                          But, if one takes this approach, does one risk destroying their Encore project?  The risk of this is why I chose not to take this approach.

                           

                          I don't know what you mean by "destroying your Encore project," but suffice to say the setting up a Dynamic Link is a non-destructive process.

                          What happens to one's Encore project if one were to do the dynamic link to an existing Encore project?

                          Nothing bad; see the above. If you have the same Premiere sequence DL'ed to two different Encore projects, nothing you do in one Encore project affects the other Encore project or the original Premiere sequence. Now, if you change the sequence in Premiere, those changes will be reflected in all of the Encore projects that use that Premiere sequence. I'm not really sure what it is you're asking here, but hopefully that's what you're referring to.

                          And what would happen if one had custom menus or had other assets that either came from other contributors or that were generated from outside of Premiere?  My guess is that one would probably have to start their Encore work all over, but hopefully someone can tell me that I'm wrong.

                          You'll have to clarify what you're talking about here. Note that you can right-click an asset and select Replace Asset... is that what you want to do?

                          • 10. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            And what would happen if one had custom menus or had other assets that either came from other contributors or that were generated from outside of Premiere?  My guess is that one would probably have to start their Encore work all over, but hopefully someone can tell me that I'm wrong.

                            Assets are Assets. They can be Imported, or created in En (in the case of Menus), or linked, via ADL. Having Timelines linked via ADL will have zero impact on other Assets in the En Project.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                              Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Still new with CS5: can you send from PR to an existing EN project?

                              FYI, appears to still be no.  FROM PR you cannot send a sequence to an existing EN project.  But all you have to do is go to the EN project and DL to any PR project/sequence, and DL to multiples.

                              • 12. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                But all you have to do is go to the EN project and DL to any PR project/sequence, and DL to multiples.

                                 

                                You can also simply drag your Premiere Pro sequence into a waiting Encore project; much easier than going through the ADL dialog rigmarole.

                                 

                                (Note you can do this with AE -> PPro and AE -> En, as well.)

                                • 13. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  You don't have to "do" anything when you send a Premiere Pro sequence to Encore via Dynamic Link; it's basically a live connection that is active at all times. When you make a change in Premiere, that change is immediately reflected in Encore (assuming, of course, that you haven't already transcoded the DL'ed sequence).


                                  Just playing with this.  Very nice!  Just as Colin says, the changes in PR are present in EN as soon as you switch back, even if not yet saved in PR.

                                   

                                  You do have to manually tell EN (a command in EN) to update Encore markers from PR.  But the command is there.

                                   

                                  But, if one takes this approach, does one risk destroying their Encore project?  The risk of this is why I chose not to take this approach.

                                  What happens to one's Encore project if one were to do the dynamic link to an existing Encore project?

                                   

                                  Some edits require adjustments, for example, if you reduce the length of a PR sequence, you will see diagonal lines showing that you need to trim the EN timeline.  If you delete chapters in PR, this would probably effect a chapter playlist based on those.  So yes, you can affect your project, but if those changes are needed, that's what you'd have to do anyway.

                                   

                                  You don't have to worry about the second issue, since I do not think you can link from PR to an existing EN project.

                                   

                                  I agree with Hunt on the external assets.  PR has no effect on your menus, etc., and really nothing other than what is in a single, particular timeline (but markers included).

                                  • 14. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                                    Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    You can also simply drag your Premiere Pro sequence into a waiting Encore project; much easier than going through the ADL dialog rigmarole.


                                    Aha!  I like that!

                                    • 15. Re: Inconsistent behavior with Encore Chapter Markers
                                      Steve C2 Level 2

                                      Hi All,

                                       

                                      Thank you again.  I think that I have solved the problem of getting the revised clip/timeline into Encore without creating a transitional avi file.  I don't know if it is a result of my actions, or as was pointed out, the dynamic way in which changed in Premiere are reflected in Encore.

                                       

                                      In my case, I directly opened Encore, rather than invoking it through Premiere.  I double-clicked on the project window and selected the Premiere project.  Encore was intelligent enough to import the Premiere sequence that I needed, rather than the Premiere project.  I then cleared the existing Encore timeline and dragged the just imported sequence to the timeline.

                                       

                                      This approach, for me, is more desirable to creating a transitional avi file and then importing the avi into Encore and needing to transcode it before I can preview so that new chapter markers can be set in the right locations.  This is a tremendous time-saver and probably reduces possibilities for errors, as well.  (I found that one time that I created a transitional avi file, I chose a quality setting that actually introduced artifacts).  I will still make the request for the feature.  It just makes sense, at least to me, that markers should be exportable and recognized within Encore.  I will also make time to try the various suggestions that you all have made

                                       

                                      Steve