1 2 Previous Next 70 Replies Latest reply on Nov 11, 2010 11:07 AM by mikeklar

    I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking

    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

      I had reported in other threads that the I7 930 and I7 950 CPU's that show a package date from as early as May till recent have not been overclocking. The issue was due to heat these newer cpu's were showing even with Noctua Heatsinks and Arctic Silver Paste. The heat was exceeding 80C at 100% load even when those chips were at stock speed and would have exceeded thermal Shut down had we not stopped the burn in at overclocked speeds. Well I have an update now as to why that was happening. The issue is tied to the Ram, Uncore, and QPI speed and voltages. If you run those at stock 1066, 2166, and 4.8 with the default voltages then the temps are back  to the 62C or under at stock speed. Those settings are Intel's official specs for the I7 930 and I7 950 CPU's. Since DDR3 1600 and QPI of 6.4 is not in Intel's spec for those chips, there is nothing to be done about this. It also points to a purpose as to why these newer cpu's are showing this when  for over a year they have not. It makes running standard clocks with ram and QPI at higher settings which most performance enthusiasts use for better system performance possibly problematic and overclocking almost impossible. If you are going to run DDR3 1600 and a QPI of 6.4 with these chips, be aware you need to go with better than normal active cooling. Intel retail fans will likely not be enough anymore and some of your less efficient CPU cooling and case cooling will not be enough. Overclocking on these chips now is extremely limited so far. You have to sacrifice performance elsewhere to gain much on the cpu. Keep that in mind as well as you make your decisions. I will hopefully narrow down further exactly which settings of those are causing this extra heat soon. BTW the I7 970 and I7 980 6 core cpu's are not showing any of this at all. They are still running cooler than the 45nm 4Core chips at stock speed. I hope this helps.

       

      Eric

      ADK

        • 1. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
          semajha

          Yeah... wish I knew about this sooner =( Far too late for me to return my CPU and I've already purchased most of my components.  I knew it was bad but not THAT bad, I figured I would atleast be able to overclock the cpu to around 3.3 with decent temps... looks like my purchase on the Mushkin Ridgeback Cas 6 ram was a waste... 

          • 2. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
            Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Erik, thanks for posting this.  I did not plan to overclock, but have been considering the options.  Here's what I have.   Couldn't afford more; upgrade option for MPE card later and more memory.  Still doing SD, and am happy with what I have now.  If I added some HD, I'd be more motivated to overclock.

             

            FYI, my i7 was "packed" April 2010; manufacture in Cost Rica.

             

            ASUS P6T SE LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
            i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601930
            AZZA Solano 1000 ATX Full Tower Case
            CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 Power Supply
            EVGA GeForce 9400 GT 512MB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16
            G.SKILL PI Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Model F3-12800CL7T-6GBPI
            WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
            WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s (X3)
            Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

             

            The heat was exceeding 80C at 100% load even when those chips were at stock speed ...

             

            The issue is tied to the Ram, Uncore, and QPI speed and voltages. If you run those at stock 1066, 2166, and 4.8 with the default voltages then the temps are back  to the 62C or under at stock speed.

             

            If you are going to run DDR3 1600 and a QPI of 6.4 with these chips, be aware you need to go with better than normal active cooling.

             

            These seem to be some hints as to how to determine if I can overclock or not.  All my bios settings are on automatic.

             

            Also, as I understand it, the memory can be overclocked in some circumstances even if the cpu is not.

             

            Based on tools in the basic overclocking piece posted in this forum, I ran Prime95 with Realtemp and CPU-Z.  At 100% load, core voltage was 1.272 and temps were high 70's to 80.  Memory appears to be running at 1333.

             

            Does that tell the story, or should I do more tests?

            • 3. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

              If you were running the CPU at stock speed then yes those temps reflect what I was warning about. That chip will not overclock very well with the ram at 1600 and the QPI at 6.4 or higher. April chips so far seem to be where this starts. We received a batch of 09/02 packaged chips yesterday and those seem to be better. They are running about 70c to 72c at stock under 100% load. Which gives you some breathing room to overclock. These are still not nearly as low temp as the  old CPU's but atleast they are in a range that can be worked with if you have better than average cooling.

               

              Eric

              ADK

              • 4. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                wb_martin Level 1

                Thanks Eric for posting this!

                • 5. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                  NP at all. So many editors are using the I7 930's and I7 950's with the intent of overclocking, it was necessary to advise what we are seeing as a system configurator. I have a further update to the original post. It seems that the extra heat so far is tied to the QPI speed. I have tested 1 so far overclocked to 3.6 with the QPI at 5.8 and the temps are staying around 70C. I will test further on the next system and see if that follows suit as well.

                   

                  Eric

                  ADK

                  • 6. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                    Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Eric thanks for posting.  I'm in no hurry, so I've done no further tests yet.

                    • 7. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                      JaysonM-Y Level 3

                      Thanks for your hard work Eric. With the purchase date of the new system drawing closer it's nice to get this info before hand.

                      • 8. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                        New update and not a good one either. We received a large batch of 970 cpu's with package date 07/12/2010 and a few 980X's of which the only 1 I can still check the package date is 08/31/2010. So far in testing 4 of these chips, they are peaking at 83C for the 970's and 88C for the 980X. Once again this is stock speed and not overclocked with the same Noctua fans and Arctic Silver Paste. Previously these chips were peaking at 63C to 65C in the past. Overclocking these chips is impossible since they thermal shutdown within a short time if the VCore is 1.2V or higher. If the Vcore is 1.16 then they peak about 90C to 94C after time although it could go higher. I didn't want to take a chance and let them thermal. So it looks like the 930's and 950's are not the only chips having this extra heat from this package date period.

                         

                        Eric

                        ADK

                        • 9. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                          JaysonM-Y Level 3

                           

                          How can one ensure that they don't purchase chips from your mentioned package times?

                          • 10. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                            ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                            Well after further testing on a different manufacturers old board that is out of  production, temps of the 970 are peaking at 58C. This looks like it's tied to the board manufacturer rather than Intel. Will update when I have further info and confirmation.

                             

                            Eric

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                              jpodlesnik1

                              Thanks very much for the updates, Eric. As info comes in, please let us know if the P6X58D Premium mainboard is one of the culprits. :-O

                              When my system arrives today I want to eventually use the Asus Turbo V software  - the OC newbie that I am - (in 'Auto Tune' mode) to OC the i7 930 cpu which I have on it - hoping it won't create a heat issue.  Thanks again!

                               

                              --Joe

                              • 12. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                JaysonM-Y Level 3

                                Also if the Rampage III Formula would be one... not that I expect you to go out and get that board.

                                • 13. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                  sorry guys we NEVER disclose what boards we use or whats best to use. its the one and only secret we keep

                                   

                                  Scott

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                    Crist OC/PC Level 2

                                    Dear Eric:

                                     

                                    Im very happy someone is talking about O.C. FOR Premier por CS5.

                                    Im  good on O.C. and these is for everyone who realy wan the best of the best

                                     

                                    These pc on the pic is running as:

                                     

                                    Processor 4.3ghz I7950 REALTEMP. nLOAD =35oC yLOAD 70oC

                                    RAM: 12G whit frec./Latenci   1740Mhz/ 7-7-7-20.

                                    HHD: RAID5 3X1TB

                                           2RAID0 2x1TB

                                           W.D.Velociraptor 300Gb. 10.000 Rpm. For O.S.

                                    Graffic Card: WATHEVER...Dont even thing in CUDA....

                                    THE ONLY CAN BE FASTER THAT THESE IS THE SAME BUT USING A I7970 OR I7980 WHIT THE SAME O.C. AND MORE RAM UNDER THE SAME TERMS. frec./Latenci

                                    I realy want people to know how to use the Money.

                                     

                                    FOOOR DOUTS: USE THESE FORO or my personal email: krostyforever@gmail.com

                                     

                                    oc-pc.JPG

                                    • 15. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                      Crist OC/PC Level 2

                                      For O.C. MY PERSONAL OPINION IS: EVGA and Gigabyte.

                                       

                                      you whant to make O.C. start asking to yourself. HOW MUCH MONEY DO I HAVE???

                                       

                                      THING THAT YOU NEED:

                                       

                                      -Big cases

                                      -POWER S. minimun 850wats. (I recomended)

                                      -i7x

                                      -RAM Corsair Dominator 1600/7-7-7-20.

                                      -WATER OR GOOD AIR COOLING SYSTEMS. these will make the diference betwen 3.6 to 4.0  to 4.3 ghz. (4ghz is cool prety fast)

                                      -HDD. I recomend W.D. Black or Green  and ofcourse o good RAID config but you dont have to paid for it.

                                      -GPU. you decide. please dont use more than 300usd. AND IF YOU FEEL SO buy a i7 6core and more ram... AND THEN buy your Cuda,matrox, Blackmagic, whatever...

                                       

                                      The rest will be time to use your new XTREME PC.

                                      • 16. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                        Well finally after a ton of testing and pushing the motherboard engineer, looks like we have narrowed down the issue to 2 production lots. So far if the 970's or 980X's are not on a board in those 2 production runs then the temps are back to normal around 59C to 63C at load. This very likely could have been the case with the 950's as well when I started this post. So at least now we can say the extra heat was tied to specific production runs on the boards and not the Chips. Big sigh of release there since that means OC'ing is still working well.

                                         

                                        Eric

                                        ADK

                                        • 17. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                          Well finally have a final update on this. Turned out it was some of the Noctua heatsinks causing the issue and not the boards. Some of the shipment worked fine as they always have and for some reason these were not even though the idle temps were as great at 29C. I am not sure why these particular Noctua fans were causing it and others of the same model and shipment were not. The fabrication looks normal and nothing is showing uneven. Either way the chips are back to normal temps with different heatsinks. I hope that helps.

                                           

                                          Eric

                                          ADK

                                          • 18. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            Eric,

                                             

                                            You had us worried, well at least you had ME worried, but I'm glad you figured it out, even though it looks pretty weird that the Noctua cooler/fan(s) could cause this behaviour.

                                             

                                            Glad you solved it and there is nothing to prevent us from advising 930/950's for economy builds.

                                            • 19. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                              Ya Harm this really was the last thing we expected. Noctua heatsinks have always been top notch and reliable. Couple that with some out of this shipment work fine and some don't and we never bothered to test that before. I should have and I knew better about assumptions but I didn't and paid the price. Learned another valuable lesson about assumptions again. Yes the new heatsink has the same chip overclocking at 3.8 at 70C max. I am definitely glad the overclocking is still open. Otherwise Scott would be thrashing me about not doing something right

                                               

                                              Eric

                                              ADK

                                              • 20. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Re the Noctua diagnosis:

                                                 

                                                See post 2 above if more info needed re my configuration.

                                                 

                                                I said:

                                                 

                                                Based on tools in the basic overclocking piece posted in this forum, I ran Prime95 with Realtemp and CPU-Z.  At 100% load, core voltage was 1.272 and temps were high 70's to 80.  Memory appears to be running at 1333.

                                                 

                                                Does that tell the story, or should I do more tests?

                                                 

                                                I interpreted that as a relatively high non-OC'd temp.  No noctua, stock i7930 cooling.

                                                 

                                                I was not planning on OC, so no add-on cooling (yet).

                                                 

                                                Does the 70's to 80 indicate a problem?  Need more testing?

                                                • 21. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                  Yes that is to high as you thought especially if you want to overclock it. That is still within Intel's thermal spec but allot hotter than you want it at stock speed.

                                                   

                                                  Eric

                                                  ADK

                                                  • 22. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                    Crist OC/PC Level 2

                                                    YOU SHOULD HAVE THESE TEMP WHITOUT LOAD:

                                                    i7 950 not load.JPG

                                                    And these whit Load.:

                                                    i7 950 load.JPG

                                                    If not you OC IS NOT EFFICIENT:

                                                    Remenber points like.

                                                    cooling past, QPI VOL. COMPLETT BIOS settings and rom temp.

                                                    Please let me know the model of your noctua, and what cooling past are you using.

                                                    • 23. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                      BTW we tried sanding down the Block on 1 of the heat sinks to the copper core and it lowered the Temp by 5C so it looks like the issue is tied to the heat pipes on this batch of Noctua's.

                                                       

                                                      Eric

                                                      ADK

                                                      • 24. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                        JaysonM-Y Level 3

                                                        Temp differences also depend on your climate, without the AC running here in hell-- I mean Jamaica, things might just idle around 40-50.

                                                        and Crist, I see you with the benchmark package there... mind sharing your results? on ppbm5's board of course.

                                                        • 25. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                          Crist OC/PC Level 2

                                                          I'll be soon on the ppbm5's whit somenthing very particular. dont know yet

                                                          if I'll use the i7 930,950, or the 975 i have, but I will make a diferent on

                                                          that board.

                                                          I'm getting 12g of ran  1700 7-7-7-20 O.C. aditional, 2 W.D.RAPTORS on raid

                                                          0 whit a spetial particion they will drive like  @ 15.000 RPM and

                                                          unfurtunily I'm force to buy CUDA CARD in order to figurate.

                                                          Probably  I'll have ready in 2 weeck.

                                                           

                                                          BWT Jayson is totaly right what you say about climate. Im from Margarita and

                                                          whitout A.C. forget about O.C.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          2010/10/23 JaysonM-Y <forums@adobe.com>

                                                           

                                                          Temp differences also depend on your climate, without the AC running here

                                                          in hell-- I mean Jamaica, things might just idle around 40-50.

                                                          >

                                                          • 26. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                            Jay Knobbe

                                                            Eric, I just bought the DH-14 Noctura cooler for my build. Should I exchange for something else?

                                                            • 27. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                              I am not sure If the D14's are showing the same problem. We have only been using the SE14's. The D14's are to tall for our rackmounts which is why we have not used them. I would be interested in what you see.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Though this changes from heatsink to heatsink some, on average you lose about 3C of heat moving ability per degree above 75F ambient temperature. 75F seems to be when the heatsink efficiencies start to deteriorate.

                                                               

                                                              Eric

                                                              ADK

                                                              • 28. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                Crist OC/PC Level 2

                                                                Hello Harm. Mainly i thank for your commentaries that always are very correct. I´LL like to know how you got the "CPU test H.264 BR"  time that good on the PPBM with i7920. And what is the reason that after sending my results they have not been published.

                                                                PS  I send several results since they are several computers.

                                                                THX

                                                                 

                                                                There is a short video of some off the hardware I got on  2009 which I am using in the PPBM

                                                                 

                                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-YrkUnb7c

                                                                • 29. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                  Send me the results by PM again. I'll take care of it. Please include your e-mail address as well.

                                                                  • 30. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                    Crist OC/PC Level 2

                                                                    2010/10/30 Harm Millaard <forums@adobe.com>

                                                                     

                                                                    Send me the results by PM again. I'll take care of it.

                                                                    >

                                                                    • 32. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                      Crist OC/PC Level 2

                                                                      Hello again dear Harm. There is some problem or reason why my results are

                                                                      not published?

                                                                      Is just rare that I can see that the ppbm5 is update and I can´t see my

                                                                      result

                                                                      Thx

                                                                      2010/10/30 Harm Millaard <forums@adobe.com>

                                                                       

                                                                      Send me the results by PM again. I'll take care of it.

                                                                      >

                                                                      • 33. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                        Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                                                                        I read a recent article on Tom's about a new liquid cooling product from Corsair.  It has a two year warranty. I'm thinking to myself, OK, what could happen in two years?  The pump fails, or you get leaks.  Non-conductive liquids are used of course, but when a leak occurs and your hardware gets sprayed, what's usually the outcome of that?  Suddenly cooling something hot, commonly causes stress cracks.

                                                                         

                                                                        I have always wondered if professional builders ever have an issue when shipping a newly built system with one of the heavy (air not liquid), tall heat sink coolers.  It seems like there would be a lot of leverage on the CPU socket if a system ships upright bouncing down the road on a UPS or Fed-EX truck. Do they have those systems shipped on their side with the heat sink upright?  Maybe it's not even an issue.  Curious to know though.

                                                                         

                                                                        I have only performed minor overclocking.  Coming from a video production background, back when XP and CS4 were in service, I needed every ounce of stability.  Every once in a while I would bump things up a bit, but only at non-critical times.  Overclocking seems more practical to me now that Windows 7 and CS5 are available.  Any thoughts...

                                                                        • 34. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                          mikeklar Level 1

                                                                          Eric

                                                                          I'm planning building a new workstation and have yet to decide on the CPU cooler.  You have been using the Noctua product and I am curious to get your input on how to "decode" their compatability model numbers?  Nowhere can I find any references to AsusTek's recent motherboards.  In particular I am interested to know if Noctura's model SE14 can be mounted on the ASUS Rampage III Extreme?

                                                                          Cheers,

                                                                          Michael

                                                                          • 35. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                            You never PM'ed the results to me, nor did you send them to my regular mail address. If I don't have your data, I can't publish them.

                                                                            • 36. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                              wb_martin Level 1

                                                                              Hi Harm,

                                                                              I haven't run the tests yet.  I decided to add some fans to my new build before I started optimizing settings - but I will though...

                                                                               

                                                                              While I am talking to you, in installing the Areca 1880ix-16 card, I noted in the manual that it requires a PCIe 2.0 x8 slot.  The ASUS Rampage III I built the system in has the following expansion slots:

                                                                              3 x PCIe2.0 x16 slots, support x16; x16/x16; x16/x8/x8 configurations

                                                                              2 x PCIe x1

                                                                              1 x PCI 2.2

                                                                               

                                                                              The ARC-1880 "fits into" one of the longer PCIe2.0 x16 slots, but the card edge doesn't "fill" the entire slot.  I have a message into Areca wondering whether it would be OK to install in the larger slot or whether I screwed up and bought the wrong controller.  However, since you were "handy" I figured I'd ask you.  Thoughts?

                                                                               

                                                                              In the interim, I connected the old WD 70 Gb WD Raptors onto the MOBO SATA grid and am formatting a RAID 0 from those now.  I can move them onto the Areca controller later - if I ever get it to work.

                                                                               

                                                                              Happy Halloween, and thanks...

                                                                              Bill

                                                                              • 37. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                                Bill,

                                                                                 

                                                                                The ARC-1880 "fits into" one of the longer PCIe2.0 x16 slots, but the card edge doesn't "fill" the entire slot.  I have a message into Areca wondering whether it would be OK to install in the larger slot or whether I screwed up and bought the wrong controller.  However, since you were "handy" I figured I'd ask you.  Thoughts?

                                                                                 

                                                                                That is how it should be, since this will automatically throttle down the PCIe slot into 8x mode.

                                                                                • 38. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                  The SE14 is the one we have been having issues with. Since the issue seemed tied to 1 shipment it may be fine for your needs but I would still get the NH-D14

                                                                                  if your case has the clearance. The only reason we don't use that fan is it's to tall  for most rackmounts which we sell most of the time with the Pro Audio systems. That is the best cooling solution Noctua has currently.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Eric

                                                                                  ADK

                                                                                  • 39. Re: I7 930 and I7 950 Overlocking
                                                                                    mikeklar Level 1

                                                                                    Thank you Eric

                                                                                    I think it'll fit into the configuration planned.  Just concerned that they don't show the Asus Rampag III  Extreme in their compatability list for this cooling tower.

                                                                                    Cheers,

                                                                                    Michael

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