11 Replies Latest reply on Oct 1, 2010 4:17 AM by TradeWind

    Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements

    kaydawgy1999

      Okay, so I've done an edit of a bunch of clips using some "dip to black" and "disolve" transitions and titles all created in Premiere CS5.  Then I highlight all the clips and Nest it into a new sequence.  Then I right-click to "replace with After Effects composition" so I can do some color grading with Magic Bullet.  How come my titles don't come transfer over, and my edits show up as just plain black video?  Cuz now, when I perform my color grading, and jump back over to Premiere, the footage is graded fine, but the transitions just show up as black video? Am I doing something wrong?  

        • 1. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          While this pertains to copying and pasting between AE and Premiere, it will give you an idea of what can make the trip between the two of them when using Dynamic Link: Copy between After Effects and Adobe Premiere Pro

          • 2. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
            kaydawgy1999 Level 1

            Colin, I have read your link, but still confused.  Based off my scenerio, how would YOU go about altering my workflow.

            • 3. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

              Actually, the link that Colin provided isn't relevant to Dynamic Link. The link that Colin provided tells what is transferred when you either copy and paste between the two programs or directly import a project from one application into the other. These are "old tech", and the fidelity is poor; they're still useful for some things, but a lot of things don't transfer.

               

              Dynamic Link, on the other hand, doesn't use any conversion process whatsoever; it runs a backgrouns ("headless") version of one application to render frames for the other application, so fidelity should be 100% perfect.

               

              I don't have time to troubleshoot this specific issue this morning, but I did need to jump in and keep you from going down the wrong path. (Sorry, Colin.)

               

              I'll try to get back to this thread to help later today.

               

              See this page for a summary of the ways to go between the two applications.

              • 4. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                kaydawgy1999 Level 1

                Thanks Todd for the quick response and heads up.  Before diving in too deep, a quick question.  With the workflow that I am doing, is it best NOT to "Nest" a new sequence before dynamically linking to AE?  I gotta lot of clips, and it seems like it would be a good idea. 

                • 5. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  Well, unless you go on a clip-by-clip basis, you're sort of at the mercy of what can be recreated in After Effects from a Premiere Pro sequence. Since the programs work differently in regard to difference between tracks (Premiere) and layers (After Effects), there are some limitations as you've discovered. Let's quickly cover the items you mentioned:

                   

                  Dissolves: these should be recreated in AE by overlapping layers with opacity keyframes on the top layer to essentially fade it in over the bottom layer. Are you seeing this behavior?

                   

                  Dip to Blacks: I believe these are recreated with a black solid straddling the edit point between two adjacent clips, and then the solid should have opacity keyframes added, as well, so that it ramps from transparent to opaque and then back to transparent. Is this working?

                   

                  Titles: this is probably the toughest one, since they don't make the trip. I get around this by doing most of my titling in Photoshop; AE will bring those in when Dynamic Linked from Premiere, and then I can convert the PS text into AE text and animate as necessary. The other solution is to make sure your titles are not selected when you initiate the Replace with AE Comp command in Premiere (by the way--you're sure to duplicate your original sequence before sending to AE, right?). That way, the titles will retain their relative position to your DL'ed comp, and still appear over the video you've worked on in AE.

                   

                  Hopefully that helps you understand what's going on, and how to remedy the situation.

                  • 6. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    Actually, the link that Colin provided isn't relevant to Dynamic Link. The link that Colin provided tells what is transferred when you either copy and paste between the two programs or directly import a project from one application into the other. These are "old tech", and the fidelity is poor; they're still useful for some things, but a lot of things don't transfer.

                    Right, I get that; but the fact remains that when you use the Replace with After Effect Composition command in Premiere with a selection that includes dissolves, dip-to-black transitions, and titles, those items (and some others) don't travel cleanly to AE because there is no analog for them in AE. Transitions don't exist, and so have to be replicated in a different manner, and titles just get solid placeholders; the link I posted indicates this and that's what I was trying to show to the OP.

                     

                    Dynamic Link, on the other hand, doesn't use any conversion process whatsoever; it runs a backgrouns ("headless") version of one application to render frames for the other application, so fidelity should be 100% perfect.

                    You're talking about AE-->PPro; I'm talking about PPro-->AE, which is what the OP is asking about.

                    I don't have time to troubleshoot this specific issue this morning, but I did need to jump in and keep you from going down the wrong path. (Sorry, Colin.)

                    I don't think it's an "issue" really; just a limitation of what the software can do. (And no worries; glad you're here keeping us honest )

                    • 7. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                      kaydawgy1999 Level 1

                      Good stuff Colin.  I appreciate it.  So based off what you said about transitions needing to be created in AE, one would say that it's wise to NOT nest the sequence, but rather dynamic link the sequence by dragging a marque around the whole timeline and "Replace with AE composition" which would grant me the ability to make my transitions in AE correct?

                      • 8. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        So based off what you said about transitions needing to be created in AE, one would say that it's wise to NOT nest the sequence, but rather dynamic link the sequence by dragging a marque around the whole timeline and "Replace with AE composition" which would grant me the ability to make my transitions in AE correct?

                         

                        Correct... I think Let me just clarify:

                         

                        There isn't any need to nest, no. In essence, when you turn a selection into an AE comp from the sequence, you are "nesting" it in a manner. That selection will be replaced by a single footage item, and everything contained in the selection will be moved into AE. You've already witnessed this, of course, but it might not have made sense why you didn't have to nest before. All you'll do is create a single DL'ed comp, and then in AE, another nested comp is created that actually contains your clips. Bah.

                         

                        Now, that said, you'll recall earlier I mentioned that you want to be sure to create a copy of your sequence before you send something to AE. This is because, once you've done that, you lose all of the edits within Premiere--what happens if you want to do some major rearranging later? You can do some rough (I mean rough) editing in AE, and even export a Premiere project, but that's too much work. Just make a duplicate and you'll be fine.

                         

                        Here's another little trick I'll do sometimes: immediately after invoking the Replace with AE Comp command, I'll undo it. This will return the selected clips to their independent state, and remove the DL'ed comp from the project. BUT, you'll still have copied everything over to AE and simultaneously create the comp. After you do your effects work, you can then simply drag your comp from AE into Premiere, and plop it on a track above all the clips you're original selected. This way, you have the best of both worlds--you've got the flexibility of a DL'ed AE comp, but you can also go back quickly to your original edit and change things as needed. You can pretty easily copy and paste things from Premiere into AE after you've updated the edit, and it will still be live to your DL comp.

                         

                        Now, as far as the transitions issue: that's kind of the icky part. Transitions as you know them in Premiere don't exist in AE. That's why you get that overlapping stuff going on. My recollection is that when you sent dissolves from PPro to AE via DL, they were recreated with opacity keyframes--the page I linked to above states this, as well. However, I just tested this, and while the clips are overlapped correctly, the opacity keyframes are not added! This, in a word, sucks. I'm almost positive this worked in CS4 and again, according to that page, should be recreated in this manner. They, however, are not, so there is something I'm either doing wrong (at least in this instance, I doubt it--dissolves are pretty straightforward ) or there is a bug at work. Can you (or anyone else) confirm the same?

                         

                        Anyway, you're in for some work in AE to rebuild your transitions. It seems to be kind-of working right now, but it could be better...

                        • 9. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          how would YOU go about altering my workflow.

                           

                          I would just apply the MB Looks right within Premiere.  Much easier that way.

                          • 10. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                            kaydawgy1999 Level 1

                            Great tips Colin.  Never thought about undoing your sequence after the dynamic link transfer in order to retain it's editing flexibilities.  Keep the tips coming!!!!

                            • 11. Re: Dynamic link leaves out crucial elements
                              TradeWind Level 3

                              Let me see if I can shed some light on the situation (and I apologize if I repeat anything that's been said...I'll be honest, I got kind of confused about the intentions/needs of the OP and the directions provided by the other members).

                               

                              Dynamic Link provides a way to go from PPro > AE, or AE > PPro, or PPro > Encore, or AE > Encore...all without rendering, preserving 100% of all effects, titles, everything.

                               

                              Copying and pasting between AE > PPro or PPro to AE retains the basic asset layout, but only maintains the effects, titles and transitions to a very small degree. First, the effects MUST be common to both AE and PPro in order for this to work (keep in mind...some plug-ins that install in both PPro and AE actually have different features sometimes, so even though it's the "same" plug-in, it really isn't...make sense?)

                               

                              Using the "replace with AE comp" or "PPro sequence" functions is a sort of automated "copy and paste" between AE > PPro or PPro > AE. All the same limitations as listed above as if you manually copied and pasted.

                               

                              For color grading in general, I'd recommend doing this BEFORE you work on other effects, or transitions even. As you may or may not know (again, I'll assume nothing), the order of effects listed on a clip can make a difference in the final look of a given clip. So if you're doing color grading, you really want to do this at the very beginning. I'd recommend opening AE and doing this work, then importing these clips as Dynamic Linked assets in PPro or rendering new clips for use in PPro. Then go ahead with your additional effects, titles, transitions and so on.

                               

                              From Adobe's page on Dynamic Link, here's a graphic/flowchart that shows the Dynamic Link workflow options (from http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/dynamiclink):

                              http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/dynamiclink/images/dynamiclink_screenshot_191x118jpg.jpg