11 Replies Latest reply on Sep 29, 2010 2:26 PM by rdnelson

    PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?

    jorgeeli Level 1

      Hi,

      I do very basic video editing. 90% of my use of PRE8 was geared towards stitching together a few related scenes into a larger single scene file. I stop doing this because I could not find a way that the newly stitched file retanied the original datestamp; the stitched video's date was reset with "today's" date and thus, is displayed totally out of chronological order in the organizer.  I work with mt2s and mov files.

       

      Is this fixed with PRE9?  Or am I doing something wrong in the first place?

       

      Please help because this is very annoying for me?

        • 1. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
          rdnelson Level 2

          I would suspect PRE9 does the same as PRE8.  I was able to resolve the issue with PRE8 if this helps.  I did go to an extreme here -- you might be able to have a lighter weight solution. 

           

          1) Set the attribute on the files as read-only.  (The extreme solution I went with was to install a Ubuntu gigabit ethernet file server which works great.  I'm able to lock the files down through the Samba configuration.  You may simply use file explorer or Windows security settings to do the same).

          2) You will find that this does not touch the original file.  PRE8 now creates an associated file in the same directory as the video source.  PRE8 will now create an associated file elsewhere.  I'm not sure if this is in the catalog or in the media cache directories -- but I know it still keeps track of tags and other important attributes you can add through the organizer. 

           

          It is important that the media cache is local to the machine to keep up the performance in case you do go with a Linux solution.  There are some other configurations I had to do both on the Windows side and the Linux side to improve performance but this is a different topic.

          • 2. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Something to consider is that PrE is a non-destructive editor. When you Import Clips into the Project and add them to the Timeline, no AV file is actually added to either the Project, or to the Timeline. The Project file, PREL, is an XML database, with links to the original AV files and other Assets, and then a set of instructions on what data will be needed from those Assets, when time comes to Share/Export. Other than the XML database, nothing yet exists. When one does a Share/Export, a new AV file is created, and that is the date that is attached - the date that that file is created. It is created from the data, read from the original Assets, and acted upon, per the instructions in the XML database.

             

            If you wish to have a record of the dates of the original Assets, you will want to do Titles with that date in them. You can also name your Share/Export AVI files to show the original files' dates, within the conventions of Windows.

             

            It will be the same in PrE 9, and it is the same for PrPro CS5, and AfterEffects CS5. Even PS will do that, when one does a Save_As, or Save_As_a_Copy. It is the date of creation that is assigned.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
              rdnelson Level 2

              Although PrE might be non-destructive, the organizer is.  It also seems that adding something to a PrE project will automatically add it to the organizer.  A xml structure is appended to the original video source file (at least for M2T files).  This structure contains the time and date of the original file plus some other information.  The file content is then overwritten which then causes the file timestamp to be updated.

               

              This is a big deal for me as the file timestamp is what I use to identify when my photos and videos were taken.  My workflow is to pull video from my camcorder.  I then run a program to split the video into clips, as different files, according to the time and date the video clip was taken.  The clip filename have the convention of being stored HDV-date-time.M2T.  The date and time of the file are also corrected with the date and time the video was taken.

               

              I don't want the organizer to mess with the source file at all.  Although the M2T format is a container and can contain extra information, I would like to make sure there is as little junk as possible in case I ever decide to move away from PrE.  I also don't want the filename timestamp to be changed.

               

              The only way to prevent this is to ensure the file is read-only.  And then this now causes PrE (or the organizer) to now create an additional file with the required xml structure in the same directory as the source file.  I don't want that either so the source directory is marked read only.

               

              Preventing write access to the directories and files is a good thing as it also prevents accidental removal or changing of the files.  It is tough enough to back up the terabytes of video and photos.  I would hate to need to restore it or any part of it!

               

              It works for me.  I hope that someone can benefit from my learning's.

              • 4. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                If you will notice, I did not make any assertions regarding Organizer, but only PrE and PrPro. I do not use Organizer, so have zero idea how it might, or might not work. Others will need to address that aspect.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                  rdnelson Level 2

                  Good point here to clarify Organizer vs. PrE.  I'm not sure how to decouple the two applications -- possibly this is an installation option that I simply cannot remember because it has been many months since I installed this.  Thanks for your response!

                  • 6. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    I just cannot help you there, but feel certain that others can. I only use the Project Panel in PrE and use Bridge (from my PrPro & CS suites), or another organizer. I do not think that I have ever even launched Organizer, and maybe that is a blessing?

                     

                    Good luck, and there some folk here, who know Organizer very well, and can offer suggestions,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                      jorgeeli Level 1

                      rdnelson,

                      Can you please clarify your workflow? I got lost.  It seems to me that you edit your clips BEFORE they are added to the Organizer to prevent it (the organizer) from messing up your original dates.

                       

                      Preserving the original date in my clips is really important to me and this issue prevents me from using the organizer to organize my camcorder videos. I only is it to organize picture camera videos since they are downloaded along with my pics. So, as you can imagine, having videos in to different places is an organizational mess.

                       

                      As a side note, about a year ago the organizer had a bad hickup and messed up about 80% of my videos' dates to a single date!!!  It was so bad that I had to revert to my backup.

                      • 8. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                        rdnelson Level 2

                        jorgeeli,

                         

                        Sorry for the confusion and all that I threw out at once.  I came from exactly the same situation as you in that my photos were organized yet I was unable to organize my videos.  This was because the Organizer in prior PrE  versions did not support the M2T file format.  I also wanted to have the photos and videos organized such that I could look at items per date and was quite excited when I was able to see the first frame of these files in the Organizer.

                         

                        This is my workflow:

                         

                        1) Capture video from camcorder using HDVSplit.  This creates a single M2T file for the length of the capture.

                        2) Run the single M2T file through HDVSplit again to create individual files for each scene according to the time and date as stored in the captured file and recorded by the camera.  For example, a single tape may have many different recordings.  Say I recorded a scene on 9/20/2010 at 10:15 for a 20 minute segment.  Then I recorded something else on 9/22/2010 at 15:45 for a 5 minute segment.  HDVSplit will take the single file and create two files.  The first file would be name something like HDV-2010_09_20-10_15_00 and the second would be HDV-2010_09_22-15_45_00.

                        3) A script is run which takes the file name and sets the file time and date attributes for each generated file.

                         

                        The above steps may not be needed for hard drive based camcorders as I believe each scene is it's own file.

                         

                        4) Set the read-only attributes for the file and directory (if you are not using Samba where this can be done for the specified user when connecting to the file server).

                        5) Import the individual clipis into the Organizer.

                         

                        That is it with regards to the getting the video clips in to the Organizer to live with the photos.  However, there are some other workflow steps I have done to improve editing performance.  After the clips are in the Organizer, I open up a empty project and drag the clips into onto the timeline.  This conforms the audio and creates the video index files.  I have set up my scratch disks such that the resulting peaking and indexing files are stored at a fixed location.  This way the video files are ready to go when I am ready to edit them in PrE.  There is no waiting around for PrE.

                         

                        It is important to remember to back up the not only the video files and the catalog but also the scratch disk locations as there is a significant amount of time needed to index and conform each clip.

                        • 9. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                          jorgeeli Level 1

                          rdnelson,

                           

                          Thanks for your most thorough reply!

                           

                          Actually I'm looking for the exact opposite; I want to stitch together several scenes (files) into a short movie, and THEN add it to the organizer all the while preserving the original date the clips were taken, not the date they were stitched together (as done by Pre).

                           

                          In the miniDV days I used to do this with scene analyzer; a very nifty software, but it does not work with mt2.

                           

                          Anybody knows a no frills utility to stitch clips together?

                           

                          Thanks

                          • 10. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            The HD "version" of ScenAlyzer is freeware, HDVSplit. Many users feel that those should have been the Capture modules in PrPro and PrE, as they are better than what Adobe went with. Do not know if HDVSplit will do what you need, but would be worth a try.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: PRE9 Users: Does this version still modifies timestamp of edited clips?
                              rdnelson Level 2

                              jorgeeli,

                               

                              I mis-read your original question.  Yes, I do exactly opposite what you are requesting.  I have a question though...

                               

                              Assume that you have three clips, each taken on a different day.  Now you assemble these clips into a single source.  What date do you expect the Organizer to use?

                               

                              As far as I can tell, the M2T format allows for extensions.  By use of HDVSplit (as explained above), the time and date is captured from the camcorder and placed into the file.  This is what HDVSplit also can use to determine when there is a scene change.

                               

                              PrE (at least version 8) does not read this extension at all.  As you are aware, PrE will simply use the M2T file time and date to sort in the Organizer.  You can, however, either manually change the file time and date prior to importing the video into the Organizer or manually change the clip time and date through the Organizer.  Then it will correctly place the video in the organizer.  I would probably choose to set the files date and time manually and then set the file's attributes as read-only so some application doesn't change it for you.  Also be aware of how you are backing up your system to ensure the time and date is being archived.

                               

                              In the situation above where there are three possible dates, only one could be chosen.

                               

                              Also, PrE will not render the time and date extension when generating a new M2T file.