22 Replies Latest reply on Jan 10, 2012 6:31 AM by Jim Curtis

    mixing 4:3 and 16:9

    glaustin Level 1

      Hi Guys

      I'm working on a 16:9 project and I have new material shot with my Sony Z1E (16:9) and old material taken on a little Panasonic (4:3). On screen the Panasonic footage doesn't stretch to fit the screen. Will it all render to the same dimensions when I output or is the final movie going to jump between dimensions? Is there anything I can do?

       

      Regards,

      Graham

        • 1. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Graham,

           

          Mixing 16x9 and 4x3 material is always a problem. Uprezzing one to fit the other is a bad idea, you lose too much quality. Leaving it as it is can be troublesome because of the black bars that will inevitably appear. I would try to use some creativity and use PIP's to circumvent this problem. Here is an example of mixing HDV 16x9 material with SD 4x3 material using PIP's: http://vimeo.com/1954849

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
            Powered by Design Level 4

            I see people take their 4:3 material and explode it very large and give it a blur and then bring in the same footage and place it over it with a boarder.

             

            You can tell the blurred footage is the same scene but it fills in the extra space since it not 16:9

             

            I see this allot on news stories.

             

            I cant think of the name of this but maybe someone else knows its name.

             

             

            GLenn

            • 3. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
              glaustin Level 1

              Hi Harm

              Many thanks for the ideas and the example link, which I thought was excellent (I assume there's a little bit if After Effects in there?) That looks a good creative solution, rather than technical, which could be a good way around my dilema for the intended audience.

               

              Thanks as well Glenn. I'll experiment.

               

              Regards,

              Graham

              • 4. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                I cant think of the name of this

                 

                Annoying

                 

                Wrong

                 

                Stupid

                 

                Bad Idea

                 

                etc.

                 

                I am of the opinion that if one is going to do something, one should do it right.  Leave aspect ratios alone.  If you need to mix two different ratios, then mix them correctly, leaving in the black bars.  If you don't like black bars, then just don't mix aspect ratios.

                • 5. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                  shooternz Level 6

                  I suggest you take a look at Instant HD plugin from Red Giant Software.

                   

                  In fact I highly recommend it.

                  • 6. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                    Thrill Media Level 2

                    "I am of the opinion that if one is going to do something, one should do it right.  Leave aspect ratios alone.  If you need to mix two different ratios, then mix them correctly, leaving in the black bars.  If you don't like black bars, then just don't mix aspect ratios."

                     

                    And that is certainly an opinion.  However, I have years of 4x3 footage that needs to be mixed with 16x9 for various clients, some of the clients can not afford to pay to go re-shoot the footage every time.  Although I don't love it, it does have to be done from time to time.  The trick is to do it as tastefully as possible, my opinion is that the black bars look like poo when the majority of the video is 16x9.

                     

                    The bonus is, with CS5 and MPE you can do this real freakin' time in your sequence!  It is awesome. I used to have to take it to AE every time.  If you are interested it goes like this.

                     

                    2 layers of the same 4x3 video.

                     

                    Top layer- normal video color graded, etc. (I like to add a small shadow to separate it a bit) So, I add a shadow to the left 90 degrees and a second shadow to the right 90 degrees.

                     

                    Bottom Layer- "Scale to frame size", Fast blur to make it soft, and color graded to finish.  I usually run it through MB Looks to tweak it a bit.

                     

                    Just a different opinion, FWIW.

                     

                    Hope that helps.

                    • 7. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                      Thrill Media Level 2

                      Oh, and one more thing... don't forget, once you get the look that you like, you can just copy and paste the effects down your sequence on the necessary clips as needed.  Saves a bunch of time!

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                        Powered by Design Level 4

                        @ Thrill

                         

                        That is the same effect I was talking about but I like the way you worded yours better.

                         

                        Do you have a screen capture so he can see what it looks like ?

                         

                         

                        GLenn

                        • 9. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                          glaustin Level 1

                          Hi all and thanks for the advice and opinions. If you do have a link to an example of layering, that would be very helpful.

                          • 10. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                            glaustin Level 1

                            Hi shooternz

                            I assume you're talking about Magic Bullet Instant HD 1.2?

                            • 12. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                              glaustin Level 1

                              Aha! Thanks; a picture paints a thousand words...

                              • 13. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Along the same lines, this little Tutorial was designed to provide a treatment for a background, where one has vertical still images, interspersed with horizontal stills. With a bit of interpolation, one can apply similar to where one has mixed Aspect Ratio material, and they do not want the mis-match to have letterboxing, or pillarboxing.

                                 

                                Actually, I like ThrillMedia's "abstract background" with a blurred version of the source footage, blown up to fill the Frame. This is just another treatment.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 14. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                  glaustin Level 1

                                  Thanks Bill.

                                  I like it; a clever use of images and backgrounds (given me some ideas for a later project I'm proposing).

                                  • 15. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Thanks for the compliment. I feel that it's more effective where one has much more "space" around the image. That is why I liked ThrillMedia's suggestion for this situation - not quite enough space for my method.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 16. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                      shooternz Level 6

                                      Hi shooternz

                                      I assume you're talking about Magic Bullet Instant HD 1.2?

                                       

                                       

                                      Correct.

                                      • 17. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                        glaustin Level 1

                                        Thanks guys for all your advice.

                                         

                                        I've created a track at 16:9 and used the solarize filter. I then fade in and out a 4:3 copy on top in time with a music track and it looks rather arty rather than papering over the cracks. I've only done this on a couple of short clips but when I preview (set on full), the playback stutters. Is this normal when applying the solarize filter?

                                         

                                        My basic system specs are:

                                        OS: Win7, 64bit,

                                        RAM: 12gig,

                                        CPU: i7,

                                        VGA: Nvidia Quadro FX3800,

                                         

                                        I'm editing on a specific 1tb disc set aside for project work (the PC has two others - OS and backup),

                                         

                                        Any ideas?

                                         

                                        Regards,

                                        Graham

                                        • 18. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Graham,

                                           

                                          For playback, do you have red lines above those Clips? If so, hit Enter to Render them for smoothest possible playback. With Effects, Rendering is often necessary to correctly see them, and get smooth playback.

                                           

                                          Good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 19. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                            glaustin Level 1

                                            Hi Bill

                                            Many thanks. Aha... yes, I do have red lines. I've been trawling through various tutorials but sometimers these things just don't jump out at you... Thank you again.

                                            • 20. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              Most welcome. I hope the Rendering will improve the playback for you.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 21. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                                Hoosterw11

                                                I am presently mixing (for the first time) some old 4:3 DV footage into 16:9 AVCHD sequence using Prem.Pro.

                                                 

                                                I use the crop function to crop the top and bottom to get a 16:9 ration between height and width and than use the zoom to fit to 16:9 frame.

                                                Provided like Harm says the footage should be good enough, else you get indeed a lot of noise/blur.

                                                But I like it sofar. playback on the external monitor (1080) is very accepteable up to even good.

                                                 

                                                BTW nice to see you are still around Harm! you helped me out via email several years ago via some dutch forum I think, but I had to stop the hobby for some years.

                                                 

                                                Rgds Hans

                                                • 22. Re: mixing 4:3 and 16:9
                                                  Jim Curtis Level 3

                                                  I also do a lot of work in 16x9 that requires use of 4x3 material.  Just about any documentary editor does.

                                                   

                                                  Another idea is to do your 4x3 with pillars on the side, but instead of repeating the video, or using black, I often will use the thematic background that I've created for titles.  This unifies the overall art direction.

                                                   

                                                  You can also just pick a still from some other video in the piece, and give it an artsy treatment, and use that as a BG for all your 4x3 PIPs. 

                                                   

                                                  Some people find the moving images behind the PIP to be distracting.  It's a matter of opinion, and the client's opinion usually wins.

                                                   

                                                  I've also used upscalers, as shooternz mentioned.  MB Instant HD is a good one.  There's one in the BCC7 set, and various others.  You can add Unsharp Mask after scaling to try to sharpen detail you've lost. 

                                                   

                                                  Also, MPE with CUDA offers superior (to Ae) upscaling  within Pr.  There's an article about this on the Adobe site.

                                                   

                                                  However, when you upscale a 4x3 to fit 16x9, you have to crop off about 30% of your vertical picture info.  Some times that looks OK. But, some other times, it's unacceptable, as you can cut off the tops of heads, or the lower thirds, etc.  Depends on the footage you're upscaling, and whether you can live with the loss of detail caused by upscaling.