21 Replies Latest reply on Sep 26, 2015 3:51 AM by Amber Martinell

    Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes

    TheGrandNabib Level 1

      I am on a brand new 12-core (dual 6-core 2.66GHz) Mac Pro with 16GB of RAM (and of course running 10.6.4). I have a new install of CS5 Master Suite (trial version, our box has not arrived yet), and primarily in my explorations with After Effects, it is running PAINFULLY slowly, mostly around simple interface stuff like scrubbing the timeline.

       

      But this was also very apparent during rendering - a project that took about 20 minutes on my old 32-bit Core 2 Duo Dell with 4GB of RAM and CS4 took about 14 minutes on this new one under CS5 (running with 4 cores each using 2GB of RAM, and plenty of cores and RAM left over for other system stuff)... but I could see that a lot of that was due to HUGE delays in processing time as it rendered, long swaths of spinning beach-ball time. Had it not been for those, it likely would have rendered in about 2-3 minutes (as I would expect).

       

      I have installed all available system and Adobe updates as of today (9/28/10), I am now running the updated AE 10.0.1... and I am having the same issues, with AE running very, very slowly. Scrubbing a project is nearly impossible - it regularly sends the system right to the beach-ball for many seconds; opening one project, which took 7-15 seconds on the Windows side (an old 32-bit Core 2 Duo Dell with 4GB Ram and CS4), takes up to 4:30 on the Mac under CS5! Same project, hierarchy, footage, etc.

       

      I tried rendering it several ways: with 2 cores with 3GB each (leaving 6GB and 12 cores for other apps), with 3 multiprocessor cores each with 3GB of RAM (leaving 4GB of RAM and 10 cores for other apps), with 4 cores with 2GB each (6GB and 12 cores allowed for other stuff), with 7 cores each with 1.5 GB (leaving the minimum RAM and cores for other apps) and with NO multiprocessing on at all. Just for the baseline, the old Dell rendered this same file in 23:49, so all of these results are an improvement over that, but not nearly enough! Those long pauses still occurred - while watching the render, I could see it fly through parts, and then choke for many seconds at a time. Here are the timing results:

       

      Multiprocessing Off: 9:57

      2 Cores with 3GB each: 14:01

      3 Cores with 3GB each: 9:36

      4 Cores with 2GB each: 9:12

      7 Cores with 1.5GB each: 15:12

       

      This all seems pretty *******' random, though my testing methodology was far from iron-clad, as you can see. But either way, you would think with my system specs more cores would produce better results, not worse. I would have expected the 2 or 3 core configs to produce the best results.

       

      The horrible lags seemed most pronounced on frames that cross faded, even a very simple crossfade - there was only one of significance in my video, where two videos crossfade over the space of about a second; each FRAME of that crossfade appeared to take about 20-30 seconds to render... or more accurately, each frame would render, and then there would be one of the insane processor lags. No lags this bad or pronounced happened on the Dell side - it was slow all around, but consistent.

       

      Now, I did some tests with Activity Monitor open, and discovered some interesting things. When rendering with multiprocessing, each core used for rendering shows up as a process called "aeselflink" (as I'm sure you know), and at least a few of them are always at the top of the list, if you view activity by % CPU.

       

      What was interesting is that while the render was actually processing (I could see motion in the render preview, as opposed to when it was choked), the CPU usage graph looked as you'd expect, going up and down between 5-50% of the CPU use. But when it stalled out and choked on a frame - or whatever it was doing - the CPU usage in the graph would PIN to the top as completely maxed out, with between 98 and 99% of the usage going to % User.

       

      When those lags happened, the aeselflink processes often showed up as EACH using anywhere from 200% to 900% of the % CPU. Sometimes they were all pinned up there; other times only one or two seemed to demand that much time. Sometimes, however, things choked and the CPU usage graph showed NO activity, plain black idle for many seconds at a time. This doesn't seem to reveal much to me, but maybe smarter people can get some info from it.

       

      Also, sometimes when starting a render, the aeselflink processes would show up in the Activity monitor normally, not demanding much time, but for a good long time (1-2 minutes) the main AE application process would show up red, saying it was not responding; during this time, the CPU usage graph showed almost no activity at all, just 0-10% User activity.

       

      Whew. Ok, there's my random smattering of data. I hope this helps give someone in the know a better picture of what's going on here... this is a huge problem if it can't be addressed.

       

      Matt

        • 2. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
          TheGrandNabib Level 1

          TimeRemapper wrote:

           

          Are you using OpenGL?

           

          Doesn't matter, I've tried with OpenGL on and off, same results.

          • 3. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
            TimeRemapper Level 4

            What codec is your source footage using? Are your project files stored locally or over a network? Rendering locally or over a network?

            • 4. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
              TheGrandNabib Level 1

              TimeRemapper wrote:

               

              What codec is your source footage using? Are your project files stored locally or over a network? Rendering locally or over a network?

              I am working entirely locally, the application is on the boot drive, my project and footage files are on a second internal drive. As for my format, I am using .mov files that were Clipwrap converted from AVCHD .mts files... I dont know what the base codec is - it came from a Canon HFS100 - but these are the same .mov files that I am using on the Dell in CS4 with no problems.

              • 5. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                TimeRemapper Level 4

                I wonder if there's some sort of conflict between the unregistered trial version and the AVCHD flavor. Certain codecs are released in the full version (per licensing constraints). When do you expect your full version to arrive? Perhaps you can get your serial information from your reseller or Adobe, and convert your trial version to a legitimate licensed version to test the theory?

                1 person found this helpful
                • 6. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                  TheGrandNabib Level 1

                  TimeRemapper wrote:

                   

                  I wonder if there's some sort of conflict between the unregistered trial version and the AVCHD flavor. Certain codecs are released in the full version (per licensing constraints). When do you expect your full version to arrive? Perhaps you can get your serial information from your reseller or Adobe, and convert your trial version to a legitimate licensed version to test the theory?

                   

                  We should have our actual box for registration in the next day or two... Adobe won't even talk to me until I have a registered copy, so my hands are tied until then.

                   

                  But I am doubtful that it's anything that simple. I've sen similar reports across the net of people having problems between 10.6.4 and CS5. I have not yet seen any solution, however, except that downgrading to 10.6.3 seems to fix it in some cases. I can't do that, since 10.6.4 is the version that shipped with this machine (both installed and on DVD), and while I might be able to do it in theory, Apple recommends against it.

                   

                   

                  I MIGHT go ahead and install CS4 on the bloody thing and see how that does for me... sadly, it has to be better than what I'm working with now.

                  • 7. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                    TimeRemapper Level 4

                    Hopefully registering the software will work. :( Please post back if you find a solution.

                    • 8. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                      TheGrandNabib Level 1

                      TimeRemapper wrote:

                       

                      Hopefully registering the software will work. :( Please post back if you find a solution.

                       

                      Will do - in the meantime I put CS4 on there and ran some tests: the same project loads in about 2 seconds, scrubbing, previewing, etc. are no trouble, and the whole thing renders in about 6 minutes using 5 processors with 2.09GB each and 4GB/8cores left for other apps. That's more like it.

                       

                      Hopefully the registration will work its magic...

                      • 9. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                        TheGrandNabib Level 1

                        Well, I got my CS5 Box, and serialized everything... I was pleased to see AE tell me that additional components needed to be installed, and had it go ahead and do that. However, it has not helped the problem at all. Projects still take many minutes to open, scrubbing results in long beachball sessions, exporting takes way longer than it should.

                         

                        This is clearly a CS5 problem, and I really hope they fix it soon...

                        • 10. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                          TimeRemapper Level 4

                          Thanks for getting back to us on your results. Sorry it seems to not have helped. This is the last of a long series of longshots, but have you tried rebooting after updating? Admittedly, you shouldn't need to, but hey, why not? :)

                          • 11. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                            cairo23 Level 1

                            From the initial description this sounds a lot like the problems I've been having with rendering in After Effects CS5.

                            I have read a lot online about hyper-threading being the cause and have been adjusting various settings with multiprocessing and turning hyper-threading on and off. So far nothing has been able to give me consistent processor use during renders or reliable render times.

                             

                            Here are the details of my set up:

                            Big Bad MF Mac

                            12 core Mac Pro, 2 x 2.93 GHz 6 core Intel Xeon, 32GB of RAM.

                            Boot Drive is 1TB

                            3 additional 2TB Hard drives RAID 0 for a 6TB Media Drive

                            Mac OS 10.6.4

                            After Effects 10.0.1

                             

                            Project details are:

                            1920x1080, 23.976 FPS

                            Footage is all uncompressed 4:4:4 AJA Kona 10 bit RGB captured using Final Cut Pro from a Sony F950.

                            Project Color space is Apple RGB.

                            Using Keylight 1.2 to Key video and then placing the footage as a 3D layer, with several other 3D layers with 2 spot lights on the footage to generate shadows on the background layer.

                            Only effects used are Key Light 1.2, Levels, Hue and Saturation.

                            Output is 1920x1080 Animation codec quicktime at 100%, 48Khz Audio.

                             

                             

                            Multi processing is enabled. I have experienced the problem with many different settings.

                            Current settings are:

                            5GB for other applications

                            12 CPUs used for other applications

                            2GB per core.

                             

                             

                            All source footage is on the RAID. All output files are being written to the RAID.

                            Renders are amazingly inconsistent. Processor activity and render times are dramatically different when performing render tests with the same composition and identical settings. I regularly get the spinning beach ball and rendering pretty much stops for long periods of time. When watching the processors via activity monitor I have noticed many times that rendering starts out strong, peaking all processors being used regardless of multiprocessing settings. When this is happening the render looks like it is progressing as expected. Then after some period of time, sometimes 2 minutes, sometimes 10 minutes the processor use drops off and rendering slows to a crawl. When this happens the whole computer suffers. I can't even use a web browser.

                             

                            After extensive testing I have noticed that I have my best luck setting up several items in the render que. Save. Quit. Restart. Turn off hyper-threading after restart via the processor pref pane from Apple. Open After effects and render. The problem will still occur, however if I'm lucky I can get good render performance for 10-20 minutes before the system starts to lag again. This is completely killing my work flow. I don't know what's going to happen from one render to the next.

                             

                            I know this computer can scream under some situations, but something is terribly wrong here. This computer is not living up the hype on the Apple web site about Apple and Adobe After Effects.

                            Please help.

                             

                            I'm going to add some more information just in case some engineer at Adobe gets his hands on this. HINT HINT

                            I set up a render before I left work last night. It was 7 clips as described above. I forgot to include the scrubbed audio to one of the comps so I went back and re-rendered the clip today. Last night the clip took 33 minutes to render. Today, after a restart and turning off hyper-threading. I opened After Effects, turned off multiprocessing and clicked ok. Then I went back and turned it on with these settings.

                            5GB for other Apps

                            12 installed cores (after disabling hyper-threading)

                            2 cores for other apps and 2GB per CPU.

                             

                            So yeah, the exact same clip with audio rendered for me today in 5 minutes.

                             

                            I should have some time today to run some experiments and do some testing. If anybody out there has any suggestions I'm game to try just about anything to help isolate the problem and get it fixed ASAP. I just hope this doesn't turn into one of those bugs where Adobe and Apple just keep kicking it back and forth and nothing ever gets resolved.

                            • 12. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                              Michael_Barrett Level 1

                              My entire creative department is experiencing similar issues with After Effects CS 5  (10.0.1.19) - We have brand new 2010 Mac Pros (12 core: 2x2.66 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon Processors) running Snow Leopard 10.6.5.  Each Mac Pro has 12 GB of RAM with an ATI Radeon HD 5770 card installed. The render speeds are very slow, with and without multiprocessing on.  The machine becomes very slow and unresponsive the moment you hit the "render" button in the render queue.  We have tried many different CPU and RAM settings, leaving more cores for other applications but still end up with renders that are slower than turtles.  We're getting frustrated, since we thought these brand new top-of-the-line Macs would really fly, along with the 64-bit operating system and the 64-bit CS5 After Effects.  CS3 seems to give us better render results.  Our older Macs running CS3 seemed to respond better and now a few people even want their old G5s back to get their work done.  We're not running any anti-virus software, the footage uses the Apple Prores 422 (HQ) codec.  We're also getting this slow, unresponsive render problem with simple targa sequences with no effects or plug-ins applied.  Ugh.  Is there any chance of a patch or 10.0.2 update to fix this slowness in 10.6.5?

                              • 13. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                Michael_Barrett Level 1

                                Some further symptoms and details of the slow, long freezes:  It seems that while AE is rendering, the finder becomes very slow.  It takes forever to click between finder windows, open a folder, open Safari, etc.  I get the spinning beach ball, folders open in slow motion, the contents of a folder take over 30 seconds to reveal.  I am checking the activity monitor and it is all over the place, displaying crazy jumps in %CPU and threads... anywhere from 0.0 to 100% to 231.3% to 90.3.  Simply clicking on the activity monitor window and trying to move it takes 10 seconds to respond.  Closing a folder takes over 10 seconds.  This is caused when I render from After Effects CS5.  Even after a render, the whole machine seems unresponsive until I restart the Mac.  I use After Effects all week long in my job and am really discouraged.  Any thoughts?

                                • 14. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                  TheGrandNabib Level 1

                                  I hate to say it, but I have found no solutions to this. It seems to be a

                                  widespread, recognized issue, but Apple says it's Adobe's problem, and Adobe

                                  blames Apple. That's the best I've been able to glean from weeks of

                                  searching and posting. For better or for worse, something in my different

                                  updates and tweaks and such have gotten CS5 to the point where I can use it

                                  effectively. I wish I could tell you what it was that did it, but I'd

                                  suggest making all relevant updates to all products, repairing permissions,

                                  and then do a full on shut-down and restart on one or more of the machines

                                  and see if you notice any difference.

                                   

                                  I also have Flip4Mac Pro and Perian installed on mine for Codecs in QT, and

                                  I also have QT 7 Pro installed, none of which I would expect to have any

                                  impact on CS5 performance, but at this point who the heck knows?

                                   

                                  If anything else comes to me as to what I did to make my system usable, I

                                  will share.

                                   

                                  Matt

                                  • 15. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                    Michael_Barrett_01 Level 1

                                    Thanks for the advice.  I will continue to try everything I can to get CS5 to be a useful application for our workflow.  Right now, it has caused an extreme amount of frustration for me and others in my creative department.  I have been able to get some work done by using After Effects CS3.  It seems to render in a normal fashion, with and without multiprocessing enabled.  It also allows me to check email, copy files and navigate around with the finder while projects are rendering in the background.

                                    • 16. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                      Andrew Wahlquist Level 1

                                      I have a similar issue, and when I turend off the Kona 3 card preview through AE Preferences, it sped way up.  I installed AJA's own CS5 plug-ins for AE and it's much better, but still slows down RAM preview playback.

                                       

                                      Andrew

                                      • 17. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                        AdiumX Level 1

                                        I have also problems to start AfterEffects CS5 on my iMac. It takes more then 10 minutes to start, in this time the program is 100% busy. Then this error appears:

                                        Bildschirmfoto 2010-12-21 um 12.26.58.png

                                        "At least one of the output modules refers to a missing plug in. please they check their output module"

                                         

                                        My Mac:

                                        iMac 2 GHz Interl Core 2 Due · 4 GB RAM · Mac Os 10.6.5 · CS5 MasterCollection

                                         

                                        Can anybody help?

                                        • 18. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                          cairo23 Level 1

                                          If I were you I would start with removing After Effects completely, preference files too.

                                          Then a diagnostic from your system disk couldn't hurt. Reboot from the restore disk, run disk utility, select your hard drive and click Repair Disk.

                                          Then re-install after effects. It's a pretty general catch all for a mis-behaving application, but with out much to go on here it's at least worth a try.

                                          B

                                          • 19. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                            AdiumX Level 1

                                            This takes no effect. Now I get an other error report:

                                             

                                            Bildschirmfoto 2010-12-24 um 01.06.24.png

                                            "QuickTime is not installed on this system. Some components do not operate correctly"

                                             

                                            QuickTime is allready installed!

                                            • 20. Re: Mac 10.6.4/10.6.5 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                              cairo23 Level 1

                                              File this under the "You've got to be kidding me!" section.

                                              I submitting my issue to Adobe tech support. I jumped thru all of their hoops. When they called me back I wasted another hour of my time running a render test for them of a single still frame! I explained calmly that what we just did had in no way recreated my issue. Support said they would get back to me with more information soon. All things told, from the day I opened my issue I waited patiently for over a month. Forty one days later I get a call saying they have some steps for me that could help me resolve my issue. I was not at work when they called. I said great please email me the pertinent information and I will go over it when I am back at work.

                                               

                                              Well I'm back at work today. The information they gave me was a generic "how to optimize After Effects" article from the support section of the Adobe web site. Really? 41 days to send me an article I found on my own months before I contacted support in the first place? Seriously? At this rate I will be using Adobe CS10, by then time somebody gets around taking my issue seriously.

                                              Thanks a lot Adobe. I guess I'm on my own on this one.

                                               

                                              Here is the article they sent me to. Who knows, maybe this information will come in handy to somebody?

                                              http://help.adobe.com/en_US/aftereffects/cs/using/WSF13D6BED-C53B-408a-B2D6-C8B4205D4FB7a. html

                                              • 21. Re: Mac 10.6.4 and CS5 - known problems? VERY slow, long freezes
                                                Amber Martinell Level 1

                                                I found a solution to my sync problem in iMac with files and fonts in the Adobe CC Panel

                                                In the Library/Preferences/com.adobe.accmac.plist Rename or delete this file.

                                                I got instant response and the sync files and fonts works. But there is no green checkmark in the folder for synced files, but I can live with that.
                                                Applications launch faster now.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Best Regards

                                                 

                                                Lasse Martinell